Sanchez to the fins? | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Sanchez to the fins?

nyjunc said:
You did start out 0-3 w/ Chad P. He's obviously the much better QB btw he and Henne but would Chad P have been able to outduel us in Miami like henne did? We would have been better either way.

The Jets in 2011 were still 8-8 and in the thick of the playoff race after TWO title game runs, the '09-'11 dolphins were never even in a playoff race after getting crushed at home in the WC rd in 2008.

The '08 dolphins had a much easier time late in the year than the Jets did getting a qtr and a half of Colts backups. Miami faced 5-6 completely dead teams, the Jets got a qtr and a half of Indy backups(trailed by 5 w/ starters in) and a half against Cincy(led by TWENTY SEVEN when starters were in).
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Yes, they started 0-3 but they played ATl (9-7), Ind (14-2), and @SD (13-3). I don't think you can blindly say that the Jets would have been better regardless. With Pennington, I'm sure they could have manged to win a couple more games.

In 2009 and 2010, the Dolphins were 7-7 and in the playoffs race (Just like the Jets in 09) and needed help to make the playoffs. They had an opportunity just like the Jets did in 09, but failed like the Jets of 2011. Had the scheduling for the last few games for the Jets been more like 2009, the Jets probably would have won those games (against teams that rested their starters and had no desire to win) instead of losing to the lesser teams like Phi and Mia. Why uplift one team and put down another team when the only difference was the scheduling? Both the 09 and 11 Jets were average.


Miami faced bad teams, but you can only play who is on your schedule and they didn't lose to 1 bad team. The Jets lost 6 out of 7 at one point in 2009 and lost to 7-9 Mia (x2), 7-9 Jax, 6-10 Buff, and with the playoffs on the line 9-7 Atl.

If it wasn't for the Colts pulling the starters, the Jets never make the playoffs. It was a 9-3 Colts lead at the half with the Colts playing vanilla O and D. The Jets got back in the game with a kick off return for a TD. Manning came back in for 1 drive and they scored a TD giving them the 15-10 lead. Then the Colts quit. Painter came in and on his first pass attempt, gives the Jets 7. At that point, not just Manning, but all of the starters were out. Without them pulling the starters, the Jets don't make it.

If the Jets did happen to make it and faced Bal in the WC round like Mia did in 08, the Jets would have lost. Just becasue 1 team had a game given to them (which let them in the playoffs) and faced a much easier team in the WC round, doesn't mean 1 team was a fraud and the other proved they belonged. All things were not equal.
 
The New Guy said:
Yes, they started 0-3 but they played ATl (9-7), Ind (14-2), and @SD (13-3). I don't think you can blindly say that the Jets would have been better regardless. With Pennington, I'm sure they could have manged to win a couple more games.

In 2009 and 2010, the Dolphins were 7-7 and in the playoffs race (Just like the Jets in 09) and needed help to make the playoffs. They had an opportunity just like the Jets did in 09, but failed like the Jets of 2011. Had the scheduling for the last few games for the Jets been more like the 2009, the Jets probably would have won those games (against teams that rested their starters and had no desire to win) instead of losing to the lesser teams like Phi and Mia. Why uplift one team and put down another team when the only difference was the scheduling? Both the 09 and 11 Jets were average.


Miami faced bad teams, but you can only play who is on your schedule and they didn't lose to 1 bad team.
The Jets lost 6 out of 7 at one point in 2009 and lost to 7-9 Mia (x2), 7-9 Jax, 6-10 Buff, and with the playoffs on the line 9-7 Atl.

If it wasn't for the Colts pulling the starters, the Jets never make the playoffs. It was a 9-3 Colts lead at the half with the Colts playing vanilla O and D. The Jets got back in the game with a kick off return for a TD. Manning came back in for 1 drive and they scored a TD giving them the 15-10 lead. Then the Colts quit. Painter came in and on his first pass attempt, gives the Jets 7. At that point, not just Manning, but all of the starters were out. Without them pulling the starters, the Jets don't make it.

If the Jets did happen to make it and faced Bal in the WC round like Mia did in 08, the Jets would have lost. Just becasue 1 team had a game given to them (which let them in the playoffs) and faced a much easier team in the WC round, doesn't mean 1 team was a fraud and the other proved they belonged. All things were not equal.
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Atl wasn't very giood in '09, they were ok. yes they beat us but they shouldn't have, we shut them down for 50+ mins and blew it at the end. SD was 2-3 to start the season before they got rolling.

The dolphins had destiny in their hands in 2009 and lost their last 3 to non playoff bound teams- they weren't really in the race.
In 2010 the WC teams won 11 games so even had they won the last 3 games they only would have been 10-6, they weren;t really in the race.

To end '09 the dolphins lost to Houston and Ten, 2 teams the Jets beat. they had their chance and failed.


Maybe the Colts beat us? they probably do but we'll never know, it was a 5 pt game midway through the 3rd when they pulled their starters. Indy pulled the, the Jets took advantage and made a run in the playoffs.

Maybe we lose to Baltimore? but we wouldn't have been crushed and Sanchez has been the much better playoff QB so I would favor the Jets against Bal in those years in postseason.

Miami didn't compete at home in the WC rd, the Jets beat the hottest teams in the league on the ROAD in the div rd in '09 & '10. There's no comparison.
 
nyjunc said:
Atl wasn't very giood in '09, they were ok. yes they beat us but they shouldn't have, we shut them down for 50+ mins and blew it at the end. SD was 2-3 to start the season before they got rolling.

The dolphins had destiny in their hands in 2009 and lost their last 3 to non playoff bound teams- they weren't really in the race.
In 2010 the WC teams won 11 games so even had they won the last 3 games they only would have been 10-6, they weren;t really in the race.

To end '09 the dolphins lost to Houston and Ten, 2 teams the Jets beat. they had their chance and failed.


Maybe the Colts beat us? they probably do but we'll never know, it was a 5 pt game midway through the 3rd when they pulled their starters. Indy pulled the, the Jets took advantage and made a run in the playoffs.

Maybe we lose to Baltimore? but we wouldn't have been crushed and Sanchez has been the much better playoff QB so I would favor the Jets against Bal in those years in postseason.

Miami didn't compete at home in the WC rd, the Jets beat the hottest teams in the league on the ROAD in the div rd in '09 & '10. There's no comparison.
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That is the way the 2010 season played out, but the Dolphins still had a chance to get in with 3 games to go. The 2011 Jets had a chance, but couldn't beat 3 teams (2 out of 3 non playoff teams) and didn't get the help they needed, but you credit them for having a chance. Yes, they controlled there destiny at 8-5, but that went out the window the very next week against Philly.

The Colts were undefeated up to that point. There is no doubt that the Colts would have beat the Jets (A team that couldn't beat Atl, Mia, Jax, and Buff)

There is no doubt that Bal would have beaten the Jets. (When is the last time NYJ beat Bal anyway?) You can't call 1 a fraud and the other as a proven success when the circumstances were completely different. That is the whole point. If the Colts don't rest the starters, the Jets don't even make the playoffs. If the Jets face Bal in the WC round, they would have been 1 and done instead of moving on to face SD. The team would not have been any better or worse. It was the teams they faced that was the difference in not making the playoffs (or being 1 and done) and moving on to the next round.
 
The New Guy said:
That is the way the 2010 season played out, but the Dolphins still had a chance to get in with 3 games to go. The 2011 Jets had a chance, but couldn't beat 3 teams (2 out of 3 non playoff teams) and didn't get the help they needed, but you credit them for having a chance. Yes, they controlled there destiny at 8-5, but that went out the window the very next week against Philly.

The Colts were undefeated up to that point. There is no doubt that the Colts would have beat the Jets (A team that couldn't beat Atl, Mia, Jax, and Buff)

There is no doubt that Bal would have beaten the Jets. (When is the last time NYJ beat Bal anyway?) You can't call 1 a fraud and the other as a proven success when the circumstances were completely different. That is the whole point. If the Colts don't rest the starters, the Jets don't even make the playoffs. If the Jets face Bal in the WC round, they would have been 1 and done instead of moving on to face SD. The team would not have been any better or worse. It was the teams they faced that was the difference in not making the playoffs (or being 1 and done) and moving on to the next round.
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Let's say the Chargers pulled their starters up 4 midway through the 3 qtr in the div rd, people like you would be saying we would have had no shot to beat them but the game played out and the Jets won. It's likely Indy wins but we'll never know, all we do know is that the game was close when they pulled their starters.

Again, Flacco has been a bad postseason QB and Sanchez a good one so to say they would have beaten us is being a little unfair. The 2009 Jets were much better than the 2008 dolphins, SD '09 was better than Bal '08 and we beat them on the road in the div rd while you got crushed in the WC rd at home.
 
nyjunc said:
Let's say the Chargers pulled their starters up 4 midway through the 3 qtr in the div rd, people like you would be saying we would have had no shot to beat them but the game played out and the Jets won. It's likely Indy wins but we'll never know, all we do know is that the game was close when they pulled their starters.

Again, Flacco has been a bad postseason QB and Sanchez a good one so to say they would have beaten us is being a little unfair. The 2009 Jets were much better than the 2008 dolphins, SD '09 was better than Bal '08 and we beat them on the road in the div rd while you got crushed in the WC rd at home.
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I personally thought that the 09 Chargers were very overrated. I thought less of the Jets, and did think that the Chargers would beat them, so I probably would think that. However, it was a 3 point game with SD missing 3 FGs, so the game could have easily gone the other way. To me, 09 Indy was a much, much better team than SD. Anything can happen on any given Sunday, but the likelihood of the Jets beating Indy is slim to none. We will never know what would have happened, but we not only have Indy beating the Jets before pulling their starters in the regular season, but they beat them a few weeks later in the AFCC game 30 to 17. It doesn't matter what the score was at the half. The end result was 30 to 17.

How is it unfair? The Ravens have beaten the Jets 4 straight times with the last being a 34 to 17 beatdown. The Ravens don't need Flacco to have great games to win in the playoffs. They beat NE 33 to 14, and I think Flacco threw for 40 yards. Bal is built a lot like the Jets (win with D and a good running game), but Bal is the better team and have shown that in their head to head meetings.

We can speculate forever about who would beat who. The signs point to Indy and Bal beating the Jets but like you said, we will never know for sure. The same goes for you speculating that the 09 Jets were better than the 08 Dolphins. The Dolphins had a much better regular season (11-5 and only losing to good teams) while the Jets had a pretty bad regular season (9-7 losing 6 of 7 even when facing a bunch of bad teams) and the Dolphins faced a much tougher first round opponent. Those are the things that we do know.
 
The New Guy said:
I personally thought that the 09 Chargers were very overrated. I thought less of the Jets, and did think that the Chargers would beat them, so I probably would think that. However, it was a 3 point game with SD missing 3 FGs, so the game could have easily gone the other way. To me, 09 Indy was a much, much better team than SD. Anything can happen on any given Sunday, but the likelihood of the Jets beating Indy is slim to none. We will never know what would have happened, but we not only have Indy beating the Jets before pulling their starters in the regular season, but they beat them a few weeks later in the AFCC game 30 to 17. It doesn't matter what the score was at the half. The end result was 30 to 17.

How is it unfair? The Ravens have beaten the Jets 4 straight times with the last being a 34 to 17 beatdown. The Ravens don't need Flacco to have great games to win in the playoffs. They beat NE 33 to 14, and I think Flacco threw for 40 yards. Bal is built a lot like the Jets (win with D and a good running game), but Bal is the better team and have shown that in their head to head meetings.

We can speculate forever about who would beat who. The signs point to Indy and Bal beating the Jets but like you said, we will never know for sure. The same goes for you speculating that the 09 Jets were better than the 08 Dolphins. The Dolphins had a much better regular season (11-5 and only losing to good teams) while the Jets had a pretty bad regular season (9-7 losing 6 of 7 even when facing a bunch of bad teams) and the Dolphins faced a much tougher first round opponent. Those are the things that we do know.
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Most thought they were the best team in the AFC and don't forgte they beat Indy the previous 2 years in postseason so many had them as the AFC favorites despite Indy getting the 1 seed.

SD missed 2 makeable FGs and if they make 1 or both it changes the game. You can't say that they lost by 3 and if they hot those Fgs they win. The jets went into prevent mode late which gave SD their only scoring drive of the 2nd half, if they are only up 7 or 4 the situation and calls are very different.

They did beat us 30-17 in the Title game but that has nothig to do w/ leading by 5 in week 16. It was a TD game in the 4th, we had lost a couple of DBs, we had lost Shonn Greene and we had a rookie QB playing. It was a very different situation than week 16.

So the 2007 Ravens game w/ Kellen Clemens as our starter and Kyle Boller starting for Bal means something to the '09 & '10 teams? The '05 Jets w/ Brooks Bollinger starting and Bal w/ Anthony Wright starting means something to the '09 & '10 teams? That's very silly, yes we got beat up this year but our OL was ravaged and it was a bad game. In '10 the teams played a 1 pt game. I trust Sanchez more in January than Flacco, I believe that would ahve been the difference btw the teams.

The jets advanced further than Baltimore in both 2009 & 2010 and played better games against the teams that beat Baltimore a week earlier.

The '08 dolphins had a better record int he reg season but they had a creampuff sched in a very weak year in the NFL. 11 wins in 2008 is like 8 wins in 2009, the '09 Jets w/ the '08 phins sched easily wins at least 12 games.

The dolphins faced a tougher, not much touhger(remember, in '09 Cincy SWEPT Baltimore), opponet in the WC rd but Miami was at home and the Jets on the road. The Jets faced much tougher opponents than Bal in the 2 div rd games and they won both on the road.
 
nyjunc said:
Most thought they were the best team in the AFC and don't forgte they beat Indy the previous 2 years in postseason so many had them as the AFC favorites despite Indy getting the 1 seed.

SD missed 2 makeable FGs and if they make 1 or both it changes the game. You can't say that they lost by 3 and if they hot those Fgs they win. The jets went into prevent mode late which gave SD their only scoring drive of the 2nd half, if they are only up 7 or 4 the situation and calls are very different.

They did beat us 30-17 in the Title game but that has nothig to do w/ leading by 5 in week 16. It was a TD game in the 4th, we had lost a couple of DBs, we had lost Shonn Greene and we had a rookie QB playing. It was a very different situation than week 16.

So the 2007 Ravens game w/ Kellen Clemens as our starter and Kyle Boller starting for Bal means something to the '09 & '10 teams? The '05 Jets w/ Brooks Bollinger starting and Bal w/ Anthony Wright starting means something to the '09 & '10 teams? That's very silly, yes we got beat up this year but our OL was ravaged and it was a bad game. In '10 the teams played a 1 pt game. I trust Sanchez more in January than Flacco, I believe that would ahve been the difference btw the teams.

The jets advanced further than Baltimore in both 2009 & 2010 and played better games against the teams that beat Baltimore a week earlier.

The '08 dolphins had a better record int he reg season but they had a creampuff sched in a very weak year in the NFL. 11 wins in 2008 is like 8 wins in 2009, the '09 Jets w/ the '08 phins sched easily wins at least 12 games.

The dolphins faced a tougher, not much touhger(remember, in '09 Cincy SWEPT Baltimore), opponet in the WC rd but Miami was at home and the Jets on the road. The Jets faced much tougher opponents than Bal in the 2 div rd games and they won both on the road.
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lol you will come up with anything to discredit the Dolphins and make something up that benefits the Jets

in the Jets ONE Super Bowl appearance it was in the AFL era with no Conference title game so they won one less game than they would have to win now, so lets discredit that according to your theory

and how you can discredit the 08' Dolphins who even though the schedule was weak won all their 11 games with other team trying, meanwhile the Jets win 9 games with two teams who couldnt care less and one team who took out Peyton Manning and put in Curtis Painter.....keep on spinning
 
NYPhin24 said:
lol you will come up with anything to discredit the Dolphins and make something up that benefits the Jets

in the Jets ONE Super Bowl appearance it was in the AFL era with no Conference title game so they won one less game than they would have to win now, so lets discredit that according to your theory

and how you can discredit the 08' Dolphins who even though the schedule was weak won all their 11 games with other team trying, meanwhile the Jets win 9 games with two teams who couldnt care less and one team who took out Peyton Manning and put in Curtis Painter.....keep on spinning
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yes, I will. Have you been readin vaarks nonsense?

The Jets had the benfit of only one playoff game to get to the SB, that's fair to point out. They still had to beat Baltimore who was a GREAT team and they did that.

The jets got a qtr and a half of backups vs. Indy(trailed 15-10) and a half of backups vs. Cincy(led 27-0), Miami got the last 6 weeks of dead teams including facing backup QBs like Seneca Wallace, JP Losman, Shaun Hill & Tyler Thigpen- QBs who are a combined 33-52 as starters int he NFL and were 9-20 as starters in 2008.
 
NY8123 said:
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The debate is half his fault and half the fault's of others who continue to talk about the Jets illegitimate playoff run two years ago
 
PhinzN703 said:
It's no coincidence that every thread mentioning the Jets is 20 pages long and everyone is arguing with you. It's the way of life here now.
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Would it be more fun if everyone agree and threads were all a page or 2 long?

PhinzN703 said:
Really....getting to two AFC Title games and then winning the SB two years after wouldn't make him great? Sure he's no Eli but....:d-day:
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It would depend how they won it, great QBs may not win SBs(marino) and you don't have to be great to win SBs(Eli)
 
nyjunc said:
Most thought they were the best team in the AFC and don't forgte they beat Indy the previous 2 years in postseason so many had them as the AFC favorites despite Indy getting the 1 seed.

SD missed 2 makeable FGs and if they make 1 or both it changes the game. You can't say that they lost by 3 and if they hot those Fgs they win. The jets went into prevent mode late which gave SD their only scoring drive of the 2nd half, if they are only up 7 or 4 the situation and calls are very different.

They did beat us 30-17 in the Title game but that has nothig to do w/ leading by 5 in week 16. It was a TD game in the 4th, we had lost a couple of DBs, we had lost Shonn Greene and we had a rookie QB playing. It was a very different situation than week 16.

So the 2007 Ravens game w/ Kellen Clemens as our starter and Kyle Boller starting for Bal means something to the '09 & '10 teams? The '05 Jets w/ Brooks Bollinger starting and Bal w/ Anthony Wright starting means something to the '09 & '10 teams? That's very silly, yes we got beat up this year but our OL was ravaged and it was a bad game. In '10 the teams played a 1 pt game. I trust Sanchez more in January than Flacco, I believe that would ahve been the difference btw the teams.

The jets advanced further than Baltimore in both 2009 & 2010 and played better games against the teams that beat Baltimore a week earlier.

The '08 dolphins had a better record int he reg season but they had a creampuff sched in a very weak year in the NFL. 11 wins in 2008 is like 8 wins in 2009, the '09 Jets w/ the '08 phins sched easily wins at least 12 games.

The dolphins faced a tougher, not much touhger(remember, in '09 Cincy SWEPT Baltimore), opponet in the WC rd but Miami was at home and the Jets on the road. The Jets faced much tougher opponents than Bal in the 2 div rd games and they won both on the road.
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We have discussed the SD game a lot in the past and I don't think either one of us will budge on our opinions. I agree that the game changes if SD makes those FGs, but it doesn't change only in the favor of the Jets. SD would have been up 13-0 at the half and 13-3 late in the 3rd. You don't think SD plays that series out of their own endzone late in the 3rd (when Rivers threw that pick which gave the Jets the ball on the SD 16) a little different up 13-3 instead of it being a 1 possession game?


The Jets were leading by 4 at the half in the title game and ended up losing 30-17, so who cares if they were trailing by 5 in the regular season before Indy pulled all of their starters. The Jets scored 7 point off of Painter as soon as he came in. That never happens with Manning in the game. The rest is just excuses. The Colts were a far superior team, and in my opinion, the Jets had no chance to beat them in the regular season had the starters played the whole game.

The games against Bal in 05 and 07 have nothing to do with the 09 and 10 teams, but it just shows that the Ravens have had the Jets number. Sometimes those kind of things get in the players head. The 09 and 10 Jets are still 0-2 against them. I just think Bal is the better team and would favor them in any playoff matchup with the Jets. We will see where Flacco and Sanchez are in a few years.

How can you credit the Jets for advancing further than the Ravens when the Jets lost to the same teams in 09 and 10 as Bal did the week before?

The Jets faced 4 teams above .500 in 09 before facing Indy and Cincy (who had no desire to win) The 08 Dolphins faced 4 teams above .500. The difference is the Jets lost 6 of 7, and lost to a bunch of bad / mediocre teams. The Dolphins won their games against bad teams and went 11-5.

I have no response for you thinking 09 Cincy was close to 08 Bal. Cincy was a dead team walking. 09 Bal had a down year and Cincy sweeping them only shows that they matched up well with Bal. It doesn't mean that they were as good a team in 09 or even close to the 08 team.


PhinzN703 said:
The debate is half his fault and half the fault's of others who continue to talk about the Jets illegitimate playoff run two years ago
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I am one of the others. :D I enjoy debating these kind of things, and I am just as much a part of it being 15 pages long as Junc is. I understand that it can get old when we debate about the same things over and over, but that is what the offseason is about right? :lol: When I get tired of it, I move on to another thread.
 
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