SB Nation: The Miami Dolphin's (and NFL's) "Problem"

[HoneyB]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/2/...chie-incognito-jonathan-martin-miami-dolphins

"The NFL has an A-hole Problem."

"I've never known any effective "team-building" exercise that involves keeping a spiral notebook outlining fines for "breaking" someone to the verge of psychosis. You don't get "broken" by your peers and come back fine the next day. You come back with a deep resentment of them and more importantly, of yourself, that you try to mask by attempting to be just as big of an asshole as they are. Incognito got broken too at some point in his life, and he never came back "fine." He came back making sure that it was going to be someone else who gets broken next time."

My take on this:

• If Ireland doesn't hire Incognito, a person with an obvious history, this scandal never happens.
• If Philbin doesn't allow escalated hazing, then this scandal never happens.
• If Philbin and Ireland don't pay off an employee to keep quiet and keep Incognito on the team, this never happens.
• If Phiblin and Ireland don't fire all the leaders in the locker room, this may not happen.
• If Ireland resigns Jake Long, this definitely doesn't happen.
• If Turner and the rest of the coaching staff gave a crap and weren't enablers, this doesn't happen.

This is a Miami Dolphins problem, because the staff on the Miami Dolphins weren't proactive to create the right atmosphere, keep good leaders, and stop things before it got out of line, regardless if a player complains to them or not.

At the VERY LEAST, if a player is having a problem with other players, or coaches, or even the manager, what will happen is his performance on the field is going to decline. Which means, you may lose games. If you don't care about losing, then you ignore it all and let chips fall. If you're a responsible owner and coach, you'll get involved and make sure your organization is running smoothly and any problems are ironed out. That's what winners do.

Losers lose, Winners win. And it starts at the top.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Sorry, I don't agree with Long mattering in this equation. Incoginito had been doing this crap for years, and did it to Martin the year before with Long here. Long wasn't stopping anything. Anyone thinking Long was a "leader" is mistaken. That was clear with his little smirks and smiles when he had bad plays or got penalized.

Being a good player doesn't make one a leader...

 

[andyahs]

Well Ireland is no longer with the Dolphins and Incognito is as good as gone, Philbin again was never made aware or have you yet to read the report and still relying on twitter for your assumptions?

 

[kellyh3034]

Please. The problem is Martin. Yeah, Cog's probably went a little overboard but I do not think it's anything different than what's been done in the past. However, if you have a a overly sensitive guy and a person who has emotional problems then this is what you get. Remember in the report Martin said that this stuff went on at high school, and at Stanford but because of his play on the field it went away. He did not have deal with it anymore. His play for the Dolphins was terrible. He could not make it go away. Now he had to deal with it for the first time and he did not have the skills or knowledge to move past it. I blame the parents.

 

[GoonBoss]

It sounds like a woman's take on a man's issue.

 

[GoonBoss]

Sorry, I don't agree with Long mattering in this equation. Incoginito had been doing this crap for years, and did it to Martin the year before with Long here. Long wasn't stopping anything. Anyone thinking Long was a "leader" is mistaken. That was clear with his little smirks and smiles when he had bad plays or got penalized.

Being a good player doesn't make one a leader...

People usually associate "Leader" with a good thing. It can be a bad thing.

People, for the most part, couldn't smell a "Leader" in a sack of potatoes....But they will
follow the leader out of the bag.

 

[Geforce]

My take on this:

• If Phiblin and Ireland don't fire all the leaders in the locker room, this may not happen.
  

If you are talking Bush, Dansby and Long, then you are wrong. According to the Wells Report, the harassment of Martin began with those three still on the team.

P.S. The members of the 2012 Leadership Counsel were not fired. Long, a free agent chose to sign with St Louis. Dansby refused to restructure his contract and was released. Bush, a free agent was the only one they did not try to resign.

 

[Bob512]

I don't think I see it the same way. You have too many "if's" that don't make sense.

The team tried to sign Jake Long and couldn't. I don't think Joe "fired" all the leadership council guys. I also think your wrong about Philbin paying someone off. If your speaking of the golf course incident, I understood it that Philbin wanted Incognito gone (my recollection)....and I'm not sure how Philbin allowed the hazing if he didn't know anything about it?

I'll throw a couple of things back your way to consider.....

I just heard Solomon Wilcox on the NFL network speaking with OJ McDuffie about this issue. (good interview by the way). They both had the same take on this......that this is an isolated issue, and by isolated they mean to the O-line and to the O-line meeting room and the O-line coach. OJ McDuffie took great offense to all of these ex-players coming out with the "this couldn't happen in our locker room comments". His attitude was that not only did they not have any idea what was or was not going on in the Phins locker room....but the team breaks down to individual meeting rooms by position and so it was also impossible for other active members of the team to see what was going on in the o-line meeting room. This is why so many Phins players are coming out in surprise that this was even going on.

Additionally, the offensive line coach deserves a lot of scrutiny here. Philbin isn't in the meeting rooms with them and relies on coach Turner to keep him updated and to honest and forthright about what is going on with the players. That didn't happen in this case. I understand that Philbin is in charge and as "the boss" he has to take full responsibility.....but I think we are overcomplicating this by going to all the "what if" scenarios over the last few years.

Bottom line, I think both the players and the coach (coaches is you include the asst. O-line coach who left in November) let Philbin down by not speaking up to him if they had a problem and in regards to the coaches, for not handling these problems and communicating them upward.

 

[Geforce]

I don't think I see it the same way. You have too many "if's" that don't make sense.

The team tried to sign Jake Long and couldn't. I don't think Joe "fired" all the leadership council guys. I also think your wrong about Philbin paying someone off. If your speaking of the golf course incident, I understood it that Philbin wanted Incognito gone (my recollection)....and I'm not sure how Philbin allowed the hazing if he didn't know anything about it?

I'll throw a couple of things back your way to consider.....

I just heard Solomon Wilcox on the NFL network speaking with OJ McDuffie about this issue. (good interview by the way). They both had the same take on this......that this is an isolated issue, and by isolated they mean to the O-line and to the O-line meeting room and the O-line coach. OJ McDuffie took great offense to all of these ex-players coming out with the "this couldn't happen in our locker room comments". His attitude was that not only did they not have any idea what was or was not going on in the Phins locker room....but the team breaks down to individual meeting rooms by position and so it was also impossible for other active members of the team to see what was going on in the o-line meeting room. This is why so many Phins players are coming out in surprise that this was even going on.

Additionally, the offensive line coach deserves a lot of scrutiny here. Philbin isn't in the meeting rooms with them and relies on coach Turner to keep him updated and to honest and forthright about what is going on with the players. That didn't happen in this case. I understand that Philbin is in charge and as "the boss" he has to take full responsibility.....but I think we are overcomplicating this by going to all the "what if" scenarios over the last few years.

Bottom line, I think both the players and the coach (coaches is you include the asst. O-line coach who left in November) let Philbin down by not speaking up to him if they had a problem and in regards to the coaches, for not handling these problems and communicating them upward.

Just to be clearer on this point...Philbin is not in the meeting with them all the time. Philbin has other areas of the team he has to keep abreast of and can not focus solely on what Turner and Mosley (assistant offensive line coach) are doing in their meetings.

 

[utahphinsfan]

2 thoughts...

If JM went to Harvard this probably wouldn't have happened.

There have been posts w/ people railing against acquiring high character guys & having a bunch of (shall we say) thugs. After seeing Pouncey & Incog drag the Phins reputation through the gutter; would any of you care to recant?

---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

People usually associate "Leader" with a good thing. It can be a bad thing.

Like Hitler?

 

[DaLionsden189]

A lot of shoulda, coulda, wouldas....

 

[HoneyB]

It sounds like a woman's take on a man's issue.

It's actually not. The writer of the SB Nation article is a man.

And my take on it was not a woman's perspective at all. It's a bottom line/results oriented perspective, which is typically male. It says, look, if you can win games, then you can do whatever the h*ll you want. If you can't win, then we're going to evaluate what you're doing (or not doing).

 

[SoCal Finatic]

Aren't we tired of this issue yet? Really? There are 100 Incognitos in the league. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap! Football players are arrogant, ignorant blowhards who are full of themselves and treat each other like dirt. Is this news? Have any of you played team sports? The part that makes me laugh is former NFL players on ESPN (acting like this is unheard of) saying this is uncalled for, politically in-correct, bullying, etc. Deny the fact that football players can be a-holes and you deny the fact that the league exists!!!!! You can't have it both ways America!! " Go knock that guy's head off.... but don't call him a name" Really people, is that the new narrative? Incog. is an a= hole, of course he is! But isn't everyone else, where's the Darren sharper? Aaron Hernandez coverage? This is so juvenile i might as well be the crap my girlfriend watches on Bravo. Ridiculous! Just, stop.

 

[Canadianfishfan]

Aren't we tired of this issue yet? Really? There are 100 Incognitos in the league. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap! Football players are arrogant, ignorant blowhards who are full of themselves and treat each other like dirt. Is this news? Have any of you played team sports? The part that makes me laugh is former NFL players on ESPN (acting like this is unheard of) saying this is uncalled for, politically in-correct, bullying, etc. Deny the fact that football players can be a-holes and you deny the fact that the league exists!!!!! You can't have it both ways America!! " Go knock that guy's head off.... but don't call him a name" Really people, is that the new narrative? Incog. is an a= hole, of course he is! But isn't everyone else, where's the Darren sharper? Aaron Hernandez coverage? This is so juvenile i might as well be the crap my girlfriend watches on Bravo. Ridiculous! Just, stop.

Exactly. Darren Sharper is now being charged with drugging and sexually assaulting how many women? And this is bigger news?

Somewhere the priorities are flawed.

 

[HoneyB]

...and I'm not sure how Philbin allowed the hazing if he didn't know anything about it?

Omar Kelly ‏@OmarKelly Feb 14
Ted Wells report never addressed Philbin's banishment of leaders. Or rookie hazing that started when Philbin arrived (didn't happen before)
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PS Thanks for the well thought out post. I just don't agree, because since the wells report, my opinion has evolved on this issue. I think a lot of other people's minds were changed, as well.

I also don't believe Joe Philbin. He didn't even admit to being aware of any hazing on hard knocks, remember that? He's just going to deny knowing anything.