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Secondary Defense

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BAMAPHIN 22

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The back end of the defense is a major problem. I know we are starting 2 rookies corners but you would think they would be getting better by now.

I have never seen in all my years of watchng the phins so many big plays given up. Vince young was just playing pitch and catch on his 3 td tosses making it look way to easy.

The safeties always seem to be not in the picture or 3 steps behind. Is it the scheme or personel?
 
BAMAPHIN 22 said:
The back end of the defense is a major problem. I know we are starting 2 rookies corners but you would think they would be getting better by now.

I have never seen in all my years of watchng the phins so many big plays given up. Vince young was just playing pitch and catch on his 3 td tosses making it look way to easy.

The safeties always seem to be not in the picture or 3 steps behind. Is it the scheme or personel?
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I think it's a combination of both. I too was hoping the play from the rookie corners would be better at this point. Vontae has made some big plays and shows the potential to be a very good corner in this league. But he has given up some big plays as well. And I expected a little more from Sean Smith at this point too. Those guys are rookies and I expect there to be bumps in the road. I'd really like to see us bring in a potential starter this off season, in case Will Allen isn't 100% and to push the rookies.

The safeties are another matter. Wilson, as everyone knows, has been horrible, both in tackling and coverage. He didn't seem to be a liability with the Giants, so maybe it is a bit of how they have used him as a FS. Then again, he tackles like a punter. Yeremiah is at a crossroads in my opinion. He has definitely made some plays this year (the way he has chased down numerous ball carriers and receivers in the open field was awesome). But he does appear to be lost at times in coverage.

I wonder if the addition of a new defensive coordinator along with the maturation of Davis and Smith, cutting Wilson, Bell to SS, adding an experienced CB (possible starter) and a TRUE free safety (a la Brock Marion - a guy who makes sure everyone is in the right spots) could cure our secondary woes next season.
 
I blame it all on Gerbil. I don't care if we have 2 rookie DBs... At least Vontae & Smith are competitive week in and out...You can make a case that Wilson is consistent...but unfortunately he is only consistent at sucking.
 
80% wilson, 10% vontae, 5% bell, 5% smith.

although vontae has made more plays than smith, he has given up more than smith too. wilson just plain sucks. always out of position.
 
Sometimes I wonder why teams don't just throw deep the whole game on us? It seems to work everytime. I always prepare myself for getting pissed when the opposing QB heaves the deep ball on us..
 
i think it's a combination of both as well. pasqualoni - who i think is hot garbage - was forced to simplify the scheme for the rookie corners and coverage poor safeties. no need making their lives any more difficult. but in the end, it would have helped a ton for him to draw up some more complex blitz plays - which falls squarely on his head. some nice consistent pressure would've helped the entire secondary and masked some of their problems.

personnel wise - it's all wilson. he can't do anything there at FS - inexcusably bad. the rooks get a pass from me - not only due to their inexperience - but also b/c they never have any help over the top. bell has never been great in coverage - but physical and excellent against the run - his counterpart over there is also making him look that much worse. bottom line - wilson shouldn't be getting any PT at FS - he should've been rotating with bell months ago.
 
BAMAPHIN 22 said:
The back end of the defense is a major problem. I know we are starting 2 rookies corners but you would think they would be getting better by now.

I have never seen in all my years of watchng the phins so many big plays given up. Vince young was just playing pitch and catch on his 3 td tosses making it look way to easy.

The safeties always seem to be not in the picture or 3 steps behind. Is it the scheme or personel?
Click to expand...

I be honest with you, I have a feeling its the "scheme". Just a hunch. And the reason is because of the fact that Sparano has not benched Wilson. Their has to be a reason for that. It must be that they know that where Wilson is has to do with the scheme.

Of course, Wilson hasn't batted down enough balls or INT "any" passes, but it just seems like where he plays is a zone type of thing and opposing offenses pick it apart....
 
endorPHINS72 said:
I think it's a combination of both. I too was hoping the play from the rookie corners would be better at this point. Vontae has made some big plays and shows the potential to be a very good corner in this league. But he has given up some big plays as well. And I expected a little more from Sean Smith at this point too. Those guys are rookies and I expect there to be bumps in the road. I'd really like to see us bring in a potential starter this off season, in case Will Allen isn't 100% and to push the rookies.

The safeties are another matter. Wilson, as everyone knows, has been horrible, both in tackling and coverage. He didn't seem to be a liability with the Giants, so maybe it is a bit of how they have used him as a FS. Then again, he tackles like a punter. Yeremiah is at a crossroads in my opinion. He has definitely made some plays this year (the way he has chased down numerous ball carriers and receivers in the open field was awesome). But he does appear to be lost at times in coverage.

I wonder if the addition of a new defensive coordinator along with the maturation of Davis and Smith, cutting Wilson, Bell to SS, adding an experienced CB (possible starter) and a TRUE free safety (a la Brock Marion - a guy who makes sure everyone is in the right spots) could cure our secondary woes next season.
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Dude, Gibril is second on the team in tackles, what are you talking about? :confused:

Then, Bell "is" at SS, what are you talking about there? :err:
 
I MiZFiT I said:
80% wilson, 10% vontae, 5% bell, 5% smith.

although vontae has made more plays than smith, he has given up more than smith too. wilson just plain sucks. always out of position.
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These numbers are pretty accurate. Most of the poor play in the secondary is Gibril Wilson's fault. The FS is supposed to be the "QB of the secondary" and Wilson is playing like John Beck. Renaldo Hill wasn't that great, but he would have been a hell of a lot better than Wilson this year and I was never a big fan of Renaldo when he was here. Book it, on opening day 2010 it will be Clemons and Bell as your starting FS/SS combo with Gibril Wilson out of the picture entirely.
 
IMO i think the safety play has been worse than the corner play, both have stunk though.
 
Other than Vontae, really disappointed with the lack of INT's from this team. We have a starter who's played every game with 0, and the safeties have combined for an extremely small amount of picks.
 
at beginning of season i thought this aera would be our strong point
couldnt be more wrong

wilson should be out of here at season ends unless they move him back to ss to back up bell

w allens loss sure didnt help ,and with such a bad injury we may well draft a cb as well as a free safety

it would also help if we could get consistant pressure from our front 7

starks and wake aside i have been disappointed [although we are up in the top 10 in league in sacks]
 
finnns2000 said:
Other than Vontae, really disappointed with the lack of INT's from this team. We have a starter who's played every game with 0, and the safeties have combined for an extremely small amount of picks.
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isnt it sad that a nickel cornerback, nate jones, has more picks than both safeties, who play almost every down. and will allen has more picks than both the safeties and he played in 6 games.


just turrible.

clear.gif
 
See, I don't know I like to think some of our problems come from lack of pressure, I know I know we are high on the stats as far as sacks but when we give up those long plays there's almost always zero pressure. Then the other part imo is gerbil. I think vontae and sean are like pat and sam they love to take chances.
 
I don't know how anyone could expect more from our rookie CB's, besides the fact that their rookies they get zero help from their FS and they have to cover R.Moss, W.Welker twice, V.Jackson, T.Owens twice, B.Edwards twice, R.Wayne, S.Smith and now A.Johnson. Then add they have to defend against Manning, Brees, Rivers and Brady!!!! What away to be introduced to the NFL! How many rookies have you seen in the past do aswell as these guys and I bet the 1 or 2 you can name had FS help.

I think people also need to get the tackling issue out of their heads, this was early in the season. G.Wilson has been more then solid in that department the rest of the year.

Getting a FS in the offseason is a huge need for this team just as improving our NT, one of our ILB's and getting OLB depth. Then and only then will this defense be able to play 4 quarters of football.

I also wouldn't expect to see the real effect these two young CB's will have until their 3rd year. Next year will be improved if only for the fact that improving the FS position will make a large impact.

There are alot more teams that would dream to be in our situation on defense, our future is clear and bright!!!
 
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