Seeing some similarities with Bucs

[ckparrothead]

I know this is all just wishful thinking, and we'd all love nothing more than to think of something that points to us winning the Super Bowl, but I do see some things that eerily remind me of the Bucs' situation when they dumped Dungy and got Gruden.

Gruden was able to take Dungy's players and coach them into champions. Since then, Gruden's personnel decisions IMO have begun the team's slow spiral down the tubes, but still the way the Dolphins situation is shaping up I see some similarities.

Think of it...we're getting David Boston back, and probably Ricky Williams. We've added a few playmakers (Kevin Carter, Matt Roth, Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder) and we've lost a few playmakers (Morlon Greenwood, Patrick Surtain). Everything went wrong last year and the coaching was terrible....there was no recovering. There was no offensive consistency in coaching, no focus on that side of the ball, the David Boston experiment got aborted before it began, the Ricky Williams disaster took away our offensive centerpiece, we lost some beef on the interior of the DL and we couldn't stop the run. Saban will be taking basically the same cast or at least a similar one, we get Ricky back, we get David Boston back, what I'm saying is we have a chance to succeed. We don't just have a chance to succeed, I think we have a chance to be very good because we still basically have all the same working parts that we did when we were consistently a 10-6 team.

I guess I'm just saying there's going to be a very good opportunity here in Miami for Saban to prove the same thing Gruden did...the players were there, we just needed the coaches and the circumstance.

 

[jnewmant]

i guess i'd have to agree with you on this topic, except when Gruden inherited Tampa they were playoff bound every season for 3-4 years prior we haven't been to the playoffs in a couple of years let alone win a game when we get there so i feel Saban has a little more work cut out for him than Gruden did, but that's not message you were trying to convey and i understand that so good post.

 

[byroan]

i guess i'd have to agree with you on this topic, except when Gruden inherited Tampa they were playoff bound every season for 3-4 years prior we haven't been to the playoffs in a couple of years let alone win a game when we get there so i feel Saban has a little more work cut out for him than Gruden did, but that's not message you were trying to convey and i understand that so good post.

If we were in the NFC we would have been playoff bound the last few years not including last season. :tongue:

 

[fishfan34]

yeah, that's my thoughts as well, the Bucs were right there at the door, all they needed was a few Offensive Tweaks, (Kennen McKardell, Joe Jerivicious(sp), Michael Pittman, Ken Dilger).. I mean, they weren't world beaters, but they were an upgrade over Anthony, J. Green, and the such.. but I believe attitude and coaching also helped, and that's where i'll agree about a few simularties.. But all their turnover was on offense.. we've had turnover on both sides of the ball and everyone's learning a new offensive and defensive system.. They only installed a new offensive plan.. by all means, i'd love to enjoy the same success, I just feel our transformation will take a little longer... but great attitude !!

 

[beejay05]

I know this is all just wishful thinking, and we'd all love nothing more than to think of something that points to us winning the Super Bowl, but I do see some things that eerily remind me of the Bucs' situation when they dumped Dungy and got Gruden.

Gruden was able to take Dungy's players and coach them into champions. Since then, Gruden's personnel decisions IMO have begun the team's slow spiral down the tubes, but still the way the Dolphins situation is shaping up I see some similarities.

Think of it...we're getting David Boston back, and probably Ricky Williams. We've added a few playmakers (Kevin Carter, Matt Roth, Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder) and we've lost a few playmakers (Morlon Greenwood, Patrick Surtain). Everything went wrong last year and the coaching was terrible....there was no recovering. There was no offensive consistency in coaching, no focus on that side of the ball, the David Boston experiment got aborted before it began, the Ricky Williams disaster took away our offensive centerpiece, we lost some beef on the interior of the DL and we couldn't stop the run. Saban will be taking basically the same cast or at least a similar one, we get Ricky back, we get David Boston back, what I'm saying is we have a chance to succeed. We don't just have a chance to succeed, I think we have a chance to be very good because we still basically have all the same working parts that we did when we were consistently a 10-6 team.

I guess I'm just saying there's going to be a very good opportunity here in Miami for Saban to prove the same thing Gruden did...the players were there, we just needed the coaches and the circumstance.

I like the optimism, and I think, like the bucs, we will have a heck of a front 7 with a lot of interchangable parts. We need a big stopper up the middle like Bugar Mcfarland and there is no reason we can be as good. Those guys got pressure on everyone. I would'nt consider Greenwood a playmaker . he was just a solid spot filler IMO.

 

[jnewmant]

If we were in the NFC we would have been playoff bound the last few years not including last season. :tongue:

good point i guess we could be the AFC version of the Bucs just with stiffer competition

 

[ckparrothead]

yeah, that's my thoughts as well, the Bucs were right there at the door, all they needed was a few Offensive Tweaks,

Yeah, but one could argue that the Dolphins have been right there on the door. But, the year they fired Dungy, the Bucs had a disappointing 9-7 record where they expected some serious super bowl contending. Instead of us having a disappointing 9-7 season, we had a disappointing 4-12 season. But, I would argue that without that whole comedy of errors thing with Ricky and Boston and even Dan Marino, we probably would have had a disappointing 9-7 season too.

 

[themole]

Yeah, but one could argue that the Dolphins have been right there on the door. But, the year they fired Dungy, the Bucs had a disappointing 9-7 record where they expected some serious super bowl contending. Instead of us having a disappointing 9-7 season, we had a disappointing 4-12 season. But, I would argue that without that whole comedy of errors thing with Ricky and Boston and even Dan Marino, we probably would have had a disappointing 9-7 season too.

Coaching has to answer to that too.

I remember many games, where we were only a completed short pass and field goal away from winning the game, or retaining possession of the clock to win. We couldn't get it done due to dropped passes or errant throws.

As much as respected Jay Fiedler for his heart and tuffness, I believe we are better off now.

 

[MDFINFAN]

yeah, that's my thoughts as well, the Bucs were right there at the door, all they needed was a few Offensive Tweaks, (Kennen McKardell, Joe Jerivicious(sp), Michael Pittman, Ken Dilger).. I mean, they weren't world beaters, but they were an upgrade over Anthony, J. Green, and the such.. but I believe attitude and coaching also helped, and that's where i'll agree about a few simularties.. But all their turnover was on offense.. we've had turnover on both sides of the ball and everyone's learning a new offensive and defensive system.. They only installed a new offensive plan.. by all means, i'd love to enjoy the same success, I just feel our transformation will take a little longer... but great attitude !!

This is about where I'm at on this..we will have a good year and everyone will think it's Saban, but in actuality it's the same team, rebounding from the year before. Our O stopped a lot of things last year..just about all new personnel. This year it's all new schemes for the O, and some added things to the D. This will be a learning year imo, but if the learning is fast, it could be a special learning year. I just don't know if enough of the system will be in and learned inside out to say they can go all the way....But this is the NFL ---On any given Sunday---

 

[Phinz]

Out of all the upgrades I definately think coaching will have the biggest impact.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Didn't Gruden just tweak Dunggy's team? Didn't Gruden keep the WCO?

Saban is putting an entire system that neither JT or Zach have played in. Same goes for McMike and Chambers.

 

[DreamWeaver]

I know this is all just wishful thinking, and we'd all love nothing more than to think of something that points to us winning the Super Bowl, but I do see some things that eerily remind me of the Bucs' situation when they dumped Dungy and got Gruden.

Gruden was able to take Dungy's players and coach them into champions. Since then, Gruden's personnel decisions IMO have begun the team's slow spiral down the tubes, but still the way the Dolphins situation is shaping up I see some similarities.

Think of it...we're getting David Boston back, and probably Ricky Williams. We've added a few playmakers (Kevin Carter, Matt Roth, Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder) and we've lost a few playmakers (Morlon Greenwood, Patrick Surtain). Everything went wrong last year and the coaching was terrible....there was no recovering. There was no offensive consistency in coaching, no focus on that side of the ball, the David Boston experiment got aborted before it began, the Ricky Williams disaster took away our offensive centerpiece, we lost some beef on the interior of the DL and we couldn't stop the run. Saban will be taking basically the same cast or at least a similar one, we get Ricky back, we get David Boston back, what I'm saying is we have a chance to succeed. We don't just have a chance to succeed, I think we have a chance to be very good because we still basically have all the same working parts that we did when we were consistently a 10-6 team.

I guess I'm just saying there's going to be a very good opportunity here in Miami for Saban to prove the same thing Gruden did...the players were there, we just needed the coaches and the circumstance.

I like your positive thinking but I have a problem with one thing...you list Greenwood as a playmaker. Name one play that he made. You won't be able too....that guy was a trash pick. Crowder has already made as many plays as Greenwood made in his entire time in MIA...Houston took out our trash!:fire:

 

[ckparrothead]

Coaching has to answer to that too.

I remember many games, where we were only a completed short pass and field goal away from winning the game, or retaining possession of the clock to win. We couldn't get it done due to dropped passes or errant throws.

As much as respected Jay Fiedler for his heart and tuffness, I believe we are better off now.

Coaching was the answer for the Bucs I would say, too. I mean the Bucs always had a good defense, but never a GREAT one (not like the one they won the super bowl with). You could say the same thing about ours. The Bucs on offense were also a mess. My memory may be fuzzy, but I thought Dungy's offensive coordinator in the disappointing 9-7 year was Les Steckle or someone like that. The offense was dismal. Gruden came in with offensive know-how, and made them super bowl champs. Saban doesn't have the offensive background, but I am hoping he brought in the guy who does in Linehan.

It just seems to me ironic, that Saban is going to get to capitalize on the presence of guys like David Boston and Ricky Williams, when those guys were absent from Wannstedt's final campaign.

 

[ckparrothead]

I like your positive thinking but I have a problem with one thing...you list Greenwood as a playmaker. Name one play that he made. You won't be able too....that guy was a trash pick. Crowder has already made as many plays as Greenwood made in his entire time in MIA...Houston took out our trash!

Greenwood made plays this last year and some the year before. Not turnovers, but big stops at certain moments. He was at the very least decent.

 

[Shouright]

Good one CK. And all you have to do to support your point further is look at our record from LAST year after DW was dumped. That was a different team out there, and there was no Ricky or Boston involved either.

What people, "experts" included, don't understand is that we aren't trying to improve from 4-12 -- we're trying to improve from 3-4 (Bates's record), with the four losses coming by a combined total of 27 points, which is about 7 points a game. Imagine what Saban's going to do with THAT team.