jlfin
old pro
He wasnt effective. He had numerous opportunities to take the starting job, but he couldn't master all the aspects of the position. He was best as a "relief pitcher".
So exactly how awful was David Woodley?
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He wasnt effective. He had numerous opportunities to take the starting job, but he couldn't master all the aspects of the position. He was best as a "relief pitcher".
I was mystified watching that SB as to why Strock didn't come in until the game was out of hand. He only attempted 4 passes after Woodley couldn't complete one (except to a Washington player) in the 2nd half. Woodley had all kinds of mental issues and showed up to the SB drunk according to his ex-wife. Did anyone see the documentary that Inside the NFL did about his story when he died a young 44 years of age? Apparently he was so nerved up about the game and couldn't handle being in the spotlight - some kind of social anxiety - likely un-diagnosed back then and so allegedly he drank all night before the game - an entire case of beer. Some players said he reeked of alcohol in the huddle. Just a sad story, very tragic.
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Shula's ability to understand different types of quaterbacks and win under extremely different circumstances is unparalleled, as was his vision for what he could get out of different types of players at the position. Look at how he did with backup qbs.
Griese. An aging Earl Morrall didn't skip a beat in '72. Woodley as a low round pick. Strock as an immobile passer. Marino. Scott Mitchell came in and parlayed his work into a famous contract with the Lions. Won games with an aging Steve DeBerg. It's not an accident after awhile and there is a reason why he is the winningest coach of all time.
Even Vince Lombardi essentially won with mostly the same group of players. Shula won the most ganes, with many groups and styles of personnel.
Griese. An aging Earl Morrall didn't skip a beat in '72. Woodley as a low round pick. Strock as an immobile passer. Marino. Scott Mitchell came in and parlayed his work into a famous contract with the Lions. Won games with an aging Steve DeBerg. It's not an accident after awhile and there is a reason why he is the winningest coach of all time.
Even Vince Lombardi essentially won with mostly the same group of players. Shula won the most ganes, with many groups and styles of personnel.
What in the bloody blue blazes are you talking about?
Very few if any QBs operated out of the shotgun during the 70s. Do you really think Don Shula would have kept Strock around to backup Griese and run a ball control offense if Don couldn't operate from under center?
If you want proof that Strock could operate effectively under center, just watch the '82 playoff game against the Chargers.
In preseason as a rookie, Woodley demonstrated a much stronger arm than advertised. That quickly became the theme during the preseason telecasts, which were every bit as happy talk as today. Terms like whip arm were common. I was surprised because Woodley was hardly an unknown quantity at LSU, although he'd generally split time.
We finally had energy at the position, which was extremely welcome after years of Griese aging and slipping, Strock as a known stationary quantity, and the laughable second round selection pop gun arm Guy Benjamin just a couple of years earlier. When Woodley emerged in preseason 1980, gaining cheap first downs via his legs, it was incredible relief because it meant Benjamin was as good as gone. We weren't going to waste a year or several with him. I'm still stunned that Shula was able to pry a 4th rounder for a quarterback as flawed and low ceiling as Guy Benjamin.
The next few years were easily my favorite Dolphin era, other than the early '70s glory years. I was in college at USC. Miami was on prime time fairly often. Invariably they played well in those games, and Woodley received the bulk of the praise. I remember night time win over Pittsburgh that was high profile, with Tommy Vigorito returning a punt for a touchdown. Fellow students knew I was from Miami. The Canes were starting to come around but hadn't quite made it yet. I'd get positive remarks about Woodley all the time...people telling me he was a keeper. Woodley earned the respect of Los Angeles locals in 1980 when he thrashed the Rams on the road by three touchdowns as a two touchdown underdog.
After Pittsburgh aged and declined, the AFC was weak in that era. San Diego played no defense even though they had some impressive personnel. The Dolphins never would have rallied from 24-0 down in a playoff game if they had faced a competent defense. The Raiders were the most talented team in the AFC in those years, and by massive margin. It's easily verified by the two Super Bowl routs in 1980 and 1983. The Dolphins managed to avoid the Raiders in the playoffs in those years. It wouldn't have been pretty. The Raiders could be somewhat lazy on defense during the regular season but they matched up incredibly well against the Dolphins, and had the manpower to really turn it on when it mattered. Since we were facing the Chargers and not the Raiders in the 1981 and 1982 playoffs, our reputation exceeded our ability. The Raiders actually missed the playoffs altogether in 1981 as defending champs.
The 1982 Dolphins were a very strange team. I sensed it at the time but it really jumped out years later when I looked at the stats. In a shortened season there can be oddities that wouldn't have fully held up in 16 games. Miami had a great overachieving pass defense but it was partially due to the opponents concentrating on the run. Miami faced barely more than 25 pass attempts per game, which was quite low even by that era. We allowed only 5.7 yards per attempt, which makes no sense given the modest personnel, or the numbers from any of the surrounding seasons. Frankly, I think we were due to regress to the mean once we reached the 12 or 14 game mark, and the Super Bowl and the Redskins just happened to be there at that point. Miami actually had the worst rushing defense in the league during the regular season, allowing 4.4 yards per carry. It made sense for the Redskins and their Hogs to pound away before something eventually busted open. The undersized Dolphins actually held up beyond expectation for the bulk of the game.
As much as I liked Woodley, it was obvious from 1981 forth that he wasn't the long term answer. He had a decent season that year but it never was going to equate to a sufficient completion percentage or yards per attempt. He had tunnel vision and lacked feel and instincts. A bit of a crank up delivery.
Just too darn bad we couldn't find a solid quarterback who had everything that Woodley lacked, but wasn't a gunslinger who tempted Shula to ignorantly abandon everything he believed in, and transform the franchise into nothing but a worthless pantyhose passing team for more than a decade. It's absolute comedy that Shula receives credit for adapting to his personnel during the Marino years. The NFC was drafting beasts, with 4-5 legit powers who shared turns at the top for the next decade plus. Miami became a weakling and made sure to stay there via every move. As much as our style of play allowed the defense to overachieve under Woodley, it was exactly the opposite under Marino. We were pure cupcakes. The brief window to salvage was 1983 and the first half season of 1984. We still retained a physical style and enough rushing attempts during that short stretch. I've detailed those specifics previously, how we transformed to pathetic pantyhose status at San Diego in 1984 and never recovered. Our previous balance wouldn't have been enough against the Raiders and all their Hall of Famers in the 1983 playoffs but that Miami team was solid and admirable, unlike the fragile version we trotted out against the 49ers a season later. The 1984 stats look good only because we maintained the balance for the bulk of the year -- never fewer than 28 rushes for the first 11 games and generally well into the 30s, then averaging fewer than 25 rushes over the final 5 games beginning at San Diego, with nothing higher than 27. That led to the 9 rush hilarity against the 49ers, and the first of many refreshing NFC Super Bowl massacres.
We finally had energy at the position, which was extremely welcome after years of Griese aging and slipping, Strock as a known stationary quantity, and the laughable second round selection pop gun arm Guy Benjamin just a couple of years earlier. When Woodley emerged in preseason 1980, gaining cheap first downs via his legs, it was incredible relief because it meant Benjamin was as good as gone. We weren't going to waste a year or several with him. I'm still stunned that Shula was able to pry a 4th rounder for a quarterback as flawed and low ceiling as Guy Benjamin.
The next few years were easily my favorite Dolphin era, other than the early '70s glory years. I was in college at USC. Miami was on prime time fairly often. Invariably they played well in those games, and Woodley received the bulk of the praise. I remember night time win over Pittsburgh that was high profile, with Tommy Vigorito returning a punt for a touchdown. Fellow students knew I was from Miami. The Canes were starting to come around but hadn't quite made it yet. I'd get positive remarks about Woodley all the time...people telling me he was a keeper. Woodley earned the respect of Los Angeles locals in 1980 when he thrashed the Rams on the road by three touchdowns as a two touchdown underdog.
After Pittsburgh aged and declined, the AFC was weak in that era. San Diego played no defense even though they had some impressive personnel. The Dolphins never would have rallied from 24-0 down in a playoff game if they had faced a competent defense. The Raiders were the most talented team in the AFC in those years, and by massive margin. It's easily verified by the two Super Bowl routs in 1980 and 1983. The Dolphins managed to avoid the Raiders in the playoffs in those years. It wouldn't have been pretty. The Raiders could be somewhat lazy on defense during the regular season but they matched up incredibly well against the Dolphins, and had the manpower to really turn it on when it mattered. Since we were facing the Chargers and not the Raiders in the 1981 and 1982 playoffs, our reputation exceeded our ability. The Raiders actually missed the playoffs altogether in 1981 as defending champs.
The 1982 Dolphins were a very strange team. I sensed it at the time but it really jumped out years later when I looked at the stats. In a shortened season there can be oddities that wouldn't have fully held up in 16 games. Miami had a great overachieving pass defense but it was partially due to the opponents concentrating on the run. Miami faced barely more than 25 pass attempts per game, which was quite low even by that era. We allowed only 5.7 yards per attempt, which makes no sense given the modest personnel, or the numbers from any of the surrounding seasons. Frankly, I think we were due to regress to the mean once we reached the 12 or 14 game mark, and the Super Bowl and the Redskins just happened to be there at that point. Miami actually had the worst rushing defense in the league during the regular season, allowing 4.4 yards per carry. It made sense for the Redskins and their Hogs to pound away before something eventually busted open. The undersized Dolphins actually held up beyond expectation for the bulk of the game.
As much as I liked Woodley, it was obvious from 1981 forth that he wasn't the long term answer. He had a decent season that year but it never was going to equate to a sufficient completion percentage or yards per attempt. He had tunnel vision and lacked feel and instincts. A bit of a crank up delivery.
Just too darn bad we couldn't find a solid quarterback who had everything that Woodley lacked, but wasn't a gunslinger who tempted Shula to ignorantly abandon everything he believed in, and transform the franchise into nothing but a worthless pantyhose passing team for more than a decade. It's absolute comedy that Shula receives credit for adapting to his personnel during the Marino years. The NFC was drafting beasts, with 4-5 legit powers who shared turns at the top for the next decade plus. Miami became a weakling and made sure to stay there via every move. As much as our style of play allowed the defense to overachieve under Woodley, it was exactly the opposite under Marino. We were pure cupcakes. The brief window to salvage was 1983 and the first half season of 1984. We still retained a physical style and enough rushing attempts during that short stretch. I've detailed those specifics previously, how we transformed to pathetic pantyhose status at San Diego in 1984 and never recovered. Our previous balance wouldn't have been enough against the Raiders and all their Hall of Famers in the 1983 playoffs but that Miami team was solid and admirable, unlike the fragile version we trotted out against the 49ers a season later. The 1984 stats look good only because we maintained the balance for the bulk of the year -- never fewer than 28 rushes for the first 11 games and generally well into the 30s, then averaging fewer than 25 rushes over the final 5 games beginning at San Diego, with nothing higher than 27. That led to the 9 rush hilarity against the 49ers, and the first of many refreshing NFC Super Bowl massacres.
Shula did well to draft Roy Foster in "82 from your USC, solid OG for sure, but what sticks out to me in the pass happy years were the light Tackles who just couldn't run block all that well- 4th rd pick Eric Laakso and 1st rd pick Jon Giesler. Compare them to Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Jeff Bostic and Mark May, who just pounded away and Jacoby in particular atr Kim Bokamper's lunch. Bokamper imo had no business as a 3/4 DE- as big as he was, and I ran into him at a golf driving range 30 years ago and trust me that dude is big- he's jumbo 3/4 OLB big or 4/3 DE big, not 3/4 DE big where he got tooled by Jacoby and forget about a doubel team, game over. And we sure did miss Larry Gordon who was one heck of a OLB, just a really good football player, what a shame that he died so young, for the team and for him/those close to him. Same bte as per Rusty Chambers and David Overstreet. Shula lost himself in the ether of Marino, ad the team was imbalanced. The question is whether he really should have needed to learn that lesson after the glory years when Little, Langer et al pounded away for Czonka and Griese and Warfield were there for incredible balance. I'm a big Shula fan and I was not happy at all when has was dumped (and how he was dumped and somewhat humilited by Jimmy Johnson and an unintending but misguided Huizenga), but Shula screwed the pooch on that decade plus- feeding and feeding the imbalanced machine and making, or maybe allowing, Marino to do it all. He screwed up, and then the crap drafting of Shipp, Brophy, Graf, Schwedes, Bosa, Kumerow etc. did him in. But then you have to consider the fates of Bobby beathard and Goerge Young in the Robbie years, but tha'ts a story for a different day.
i agree we most of this surrounding the transformation of the dolphins to a passing team with a soft defense during the Marino years. However, the entire AFC went in this direction while as you say the NFC went more physical/big. The Raiders' win in '83 was the last for the AFC until the Broncos' win in '97. 14-15 straight Super Bowl blowouts for the most part with the victors all from the NFC. My point is I think we - along with everyone else in our conference were making personnel moves in an attempt to be the class of the AFC. The NFC was doing the same thing and evolution was what it was. All 6 of the QBs taken in the first round in '83 went to AFC teams. Four of them played in at least one SB during that 15 year span. Marino, elway and Kelly - these guys get drafted into the NFC they have multiple rings during that time. Elway was a much better QB when his team was getting pulverized in SBs than when he won a couple as an old man after free agency had sufficiently righted the balance of power between the conferences. Just my 2 cents.
where's th'fish
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That reminds me of our laughable runs on 2nd and 10. We would call them every time and gain a yard or two at most. Did they help us at all? No. Balance isn't attempting to run the ball, it's actually running the ball effectively and we simply couldn't do that for a long, long time.
The problem wasn't the scheme, it was the drafting. Shula was great at getting the most out of what he had, but he was in charge of the draft and he didn't do a very good job at it after Marino.
About Woodley, I understand the concern about his tragic story, but pretending he was something he was not is no way to pay respect to a man's life. I understand it when the event is recent, but at some point respect becomes calling as it as you see it. I bear no animosity towards him, I don't hate our bad players or take defective play personally as some people do, but the truth is the stars aligned for him that one season like they did for Tebow, but he simply wasn't cut out for this league. He was never an effective passer.
The problem wasn't the scheme, it was the drafting. Shula was great at getting the most out of what he had, but he was in charge of the draft and he didn't do a very good job at it after Marino.
About Woodley, I understand the concern about his tragic story, but pretending he was something he was not is no way to pay respect to a man's life. I understand it when the event is recent, but at some point respect becomes calling as it as you see it. I bear no animosity towards him, I don't hate our bad players or take defective play personally as some people do, but the truth is the stars aligned for him that one season like they did for Tebow, but he simply wasn't cut out for this league. He was never an effective passer.
I wonder if that gap of only 1.3 yards in regular season yards allowed per pass compared to yards allowed per rush (5.7 to 4.4) for the 1982 Dolphins is a modern day record? It's certainly the tightest I'm aware of.
Normally that variance is at least 2.5 or 3 yards. Sometimes it can be as much as 4 yards if a team has a mediocre rush defense but a horrid pass defense, allowing 8+ per attempt. Anything below a 2 yard gap is rare. For one thing, a low margin goes against the grain because normally an excellent pass defense is combined with an above average rush defense.
I checked some examples that I thought might be low. The 2002 Buccaneers allowed a fantastic 5.5 yards per pass and a good but not special 3.8 yards per rush. So that 1.7 gap is quite low. Last year's Seahawks similarly allowed 5.8 per pass and 3.9 per rush for a margin of 1.9.
I think there were some recent Bills teams with weak rush defense but strangely very good pass defense. I'm not going to look everything up but that's another type of obscure possibility, a team that allowed let's say 4.5+ yards per rush and nearby 6 yards per pass.
In any event, as I posted earlier, the '82 Dolphin numbers were skewed due to the shortened 9 game strike season. If it had been a normal 16 games, I'm confident the rush/pass defense margin would have widened to a more normal level like 2 yards or greater.
Normally that variance is at least 2.5 or 3 yards. Sometimes it can be as much as 4 yards if a team has a mediocre rush defense but a horrid pass defense, allowing 8+ per attempt. Anything below a 2 yard gap is rare. For one thing, a low margin goes against the grain because normally an excellent pass defense is combined with an above average rush defense.
I checked some examples that I thought might be low. The 2002 Buccaneers allowed a fantastic 5.5 yards per pass and a good but not special 3.8 yards per rush. So that 1.7 gap is quite low. Last year's Seahawks similarly allowed 5.8 per pass and 3.9 per rush for a margin of 1.9.
I think there were some recent Bills teams with weak rush defense but strangely very good pass defense. I'm not going to look everything up but that's another type of obscure possibility, a team that allowed let's say 4.5+ yards per rush and nearby 6 yards per pass.
In any event, as I posted earlier, the '82 Dolphin numbers were skewed due to the shortened 9 game strike season. If it had been a normal 16 games, I'm confident the rush/pass defense margin would have widened to a more normal level like 2 yards or greater.
As a shortcut I just went and cycled through several Ravens and Steeler teams and found several examples of differentials less than 2 yards. The lowest I found among them was actually .9 yards, by the Steelers in 2007 and 2011. Strangely, the numbers were exactly the same, 4.9 net yards per attempt allowed versus 4 yards per rush allowed. In 2008 the difference was only a yard though the numbers were better, 4.3 yards per pass versus 3.3 yards per rush. That's probably the lowest total number I saw, though I didn't keep track. I also found a 1992 Steeler team that had a 1.3 differential.
The lowest number I found for the Ravens was 1.5 yards, which they did at least three separate times.
For ****s and giggles I went through a few Dolphins teams and actually found a .8 differential from 2000. 5.0 to 4.2. The 2004 Dolphins also had a low ratio (1.2), though both numbers were even more mediocre, 5.5 to 4.2. I didn't go and look up and modern Dolphins teams. Even if they had lower ratios than this, I just tend to prefer those years never happened.
Pro football reference makes looking this up tremendously easy, by the way. The NY/A passing allowed and Y/A rushing allowed are on the same line near the top of the page.
Edit: Pro football reference has the 1982 Dolphins ratio at .4. 4 yards per attempt to 4.4 per rush. I assume you were using gross yards per attempt, then. Which changes things a bit.
MarSly
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Baumhower carried us on that defense.
Baumhower was a heck of a player and a rock at NT, but you had Betters, Brudzinski, Gordon, Duhe, Bokamper, the Blackwoods, Don McNeal, Earnie Rhone, Mike Kozlowski and Charles Bowser- that D was a team effort imo, even Vern Den Herder was on that team iirc. They just got beat up by Riggins and that big Redskins offensive line. But if Bokamper made that pic...