So Who is Still Upset that we didn't trade for Orton??????

[dolphone]

A front office doesn't get credit for UDFA's that CHOOSE which team they want to go to. Players like Davone Bess, Carpenter, Wake, etc. CHOSE to come to Miami because that's the weakest roster that gives them a chance at sticking. Nor did this front office draft Fields...

Dansby was a no brainer. Fans talked all offseason regarding the fact that Miami had two choices to upgrade the ILB position, which was either to sign Dansby in free agency, or draft Rolando McClain. They don't get credit for obvious moves that even the fanbase already had figured out...

Jake Long was the wrong pick...period. It should've been Matt Ryan.

Davis should've been Clay Matthews, Sean Smith was a good pick (who I also had Miami taking)


Langford was a good pick (who I already had Miami taking), Starks was a good signing, Odrick was a good pick (who I also had Miami taking).

Chris Clemons is irrelevant, there's nothing 'good' about Incognito...

I already had Clyde Gates as a potential steal in the draft, I don't see the genius here.. Daniel Thomas was a back that I liked in the draft, there are numerous threads in the draft forum about this guy, and the improvements that he needs to make in his game to be a NFL back. He has to stop fumbling... period.

I don't agree with taking Mike Pouncey at #15, passing up Ingram, missing on Mallett, and trading up for Thomas.


The mistakes that they've made, and the players that's it's cost Miami, such as Earl Thomas, Dez Bryant, Matt Ryan, Mark Ingram, Ryan Mallett, etc... are going to be more costly than anything they've brought in.

I wanted Peyton Hillis, the brainiacs keep passing him up for Lex Hilliard and Jalen Parmale..

Their free agency and roster moves are brutal 80% of the time, and it's going to cost them their jobs in the end.

The bottom line is, when they actually make what looks like a good move to ME, I'll point it out. I don't slobber over all these overrated/mediocre players that can't win like you do. It's not going to happen.

You're overstating your point.

If an FO doesn't get credit for UDFAs, then they don't get credit for FA either, those guys choose which team they go to as well. But then you can't blame them for Peyton Hillis, or free agency. But just before we veer off that path, please go watch Incognito block. He's the most consistent blocker so far this year, he's eating up everyone.

As to the drafts, you can argue Ryan would've been exactly as successful here. I can argue he would've been killed behind that OL. It's a moot point, we can't rewrite history. And FWIW, he has exactly as many playoff wins and Superbowl rings as Henne.

Clay Matthews, IMO, would've been killed for being a "one trick pony", with zero run support ability, here in Miami. Would his immediate impact be any greater than Davis? Sure, if used properly. But where would our secondary be right now if we switched those picks? Smith would be the #1 (some people argue he shouldn't even be starting) and we would be starting... who? Jason Allen? Will Allen? God forbid, Nolan Carroll? Or Bennie Sapp... he worked out great on the outside... And since the secondary has been the source of the teams woes so far, I'd say it wouldn't have been a smart pick at all.

You had Gates as a "potential steal"... that means what? They still picked him before anyone else. I can argue that "I had Tom Brady as the biggest sleeper in his draft, I don't see the genius in their scouting either"... fact of the matter is, had they not pulled the trigger and Gates ends up elsewhere producing, you'd be berating them for being so stupid they can't even see what you so easily foresaw. Or am I wrong? You're doing it with a few other picks. If I'm not wrong, then you must give credit when they make the right choice (or the choice you'd have liked, as it is...)

You argue for Ingram, who would've been picked with a #1 (either 15 or dropping down) but Daniel Thomas has more yards than him, while playing in one less game. And he went in the second, allowing us to plug a hole in the middle of the OL (again, who would've started if it wasn't for Pouncey? Berger?)

The last line (bolded) sums it up nicely. You'll praise them when the move looks good *to you*, regardless of anything else. You call the players out for not winning, but you criticize the coaching staff for the very same thing. Can't have it both ways, unless you somehow think we're a bottom feeding team - in which case, what are you going to do if they end up with a winning season, or - gasp - in the playoffs? Will they suddenly become good decisions? So players are magically good one game (winning) but bad another (losing)?

Too many logical fallacies to go through. We'll see how the forum feels after the stomp @CLE.

 

[Kinzua]

A
Jake Long was the wrong pick...period. It should've been Matt Ryan.

Davis should've been Clay Matthews, Sean Smith was a good pick (who I also had Miami taking)


Langford was a good pick (who I already had Miami taking), Starks was a good signing, Odrick was a good pick (who I also had Miami taking).

I already had Clyde Gates as a potential steal in the draft, I don't see the genius here.. Daniel Thomas was a back that I liked in the draft, there are numerous threads in the draft forum about this guy, and the improvements that he needs to make in his game to be a NFL back. He has to stop fumbling... period.

I don't agree with taking Mike Pouncey at #15, passing up Ingram, missing on Mallett, and trading up for Thomas.


The mistakes that they've made, and the players that's it's cost Miami, such as Earl Thomas, Dez Bryant, Matt Ryan, Mark Ingram, Ryan Mallett, etc... are going to be more costly than anything they've brought in.

I wanted Peyton Hillis, the brainiacs keep passing him up for Lex Hilliard and Jalen Parmale..

Their free agency and roster moves are brutal 80% of the time, and it's going to cost them their jobs in the end.

The bottom line is, when they actually make what looks like a good move to ME, I'll point it out. I don't slobber over all these overrated/mediocre players that can't win like you do. It's not going to happen.

Wow ... ain't hindsight great?

You wanna talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda, consider that in 2004 the Bills traded their 2005 first rounder, their 2004 2nd rounder, and their 2004 5th rounder to Dallas to get the 22nd pick which they used on ... // DRUMROLL // ... J P Losman. Do you know who was still on the board at #16 in 2005? That crappy Cali QB who plays in Green Bay now. Y'know, the kid with the beard -- what's his name? Yeah, Aaron Rodgers -- that's him.

Do you know who the Bills took at #11 in 2009? Aaron "Waste of a Roster Spot" Maybin, a one-year wonder who was too small to be an effective DE and not athletic enough to be a small LBer. Do you know who was still on the board at #11? OT Michael Oher and LB Brian Orapko, both quality starters since their rookie seasons whom the Bills could have really, really used.

Now sweetpea, when your team's FO f's up that bad in just the draft (I won't even get into other stupid personnel moves from the boys at One Bills Drive), then you can start yowling about how bad they are. All teams whiff on draftees regularly, including on first rounders. Just because you don't agree with who they picked doesn't mean it's a bad pick. Jake Long is a good, maybe even a great LT. I'd take him over Leodis McKelvin, who isn't even good enough to start if not for an injury to Terrence McGee, any day of the week.

I suggest you save up your pennies so you can buy your very own NFL team and pick all the future stars you want. Only thing is ... you gotta pick 'em before they play in the NFL not after they're successful. :crazy:

 

[dlockz]

Orton will have a better season than Henne. If you put Henne on the Broncos it would be Henne's worst season by far. If you put Orton on the Dolphins it would be Orton's best year. Our talent on offense is much higher than the broncos. Imagine Henne throwing to Decker and Royal. Please ORTON>henne

Yea Henne would get murdered there but I still like Henne

 

[Fish-Head]

Wow ... ain't hindsight great?

You wanna talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda, consider that in 2004 the Bills traded their 2005 first rounder, their 2004 2nd rounder, and their 2004 5th rounder to Dallas to get the 22nd pick which they used on ... // DRUMROLL // ... J P Losman. Do you know who was still on the board at #16 in 2005? That crappy Cali QB who plays in Green Bay now. Y'know, the kid with the beard -- what's his name? Yeah, Aaron Rodgers -- that's him.

Do you know who the Bills took at #11 in 2009? Aaron "Waste of a Roster Spot" Maybin, a one-year wonder who was too small to be an effective DE and not athletic enough to be a small LBer. Do you know who was still on the board at #11? OT Michael Oher and LB Brian Orapko, both quality starters since their rookie seasons whom the Bills could have really, really used.

Now sweetpea, when your team's FO f's up that bad in just the draft (I won't even get into other stupid personnel moves from the boys at One Bills Drive), then you can start yowling about how bad they are. All teams whiff on draftees regularly, including on first rounders. Just because you don't agree with who they picked doesn't mean it's a bad pick. Jake Long is a good, maybe even a great LT. I'd take him over Leodis McKelvin, who isn't even good enough to start if not for an injury to Terrence McGee, any day of the week.

I suggest you save up your pennies so you can buy your very own NFL team and pick all the future stars you want. Only thing is ... you gotta pick 'em before they play in the NFL not after they're successful. :crazy:

Wow 'sweetpea'... Swing and a miss... He was referencing the OBVIOUS moves... Which is why he used the word... umm 'OBVIOUS' that you chose to delete from the post before responding... Pretty convenient. I guess PERSPECTIVE is relative for a Bills fan watching his team play home games in Toronto.

All of these moves BEGINNING with Ryan over Long were freaking obvious and pretty much the general consensus... This vaunted FO actually went AGAINST the grain on most... Pouncey/Thomas vs Ingram/Mallett was a no brainer in terms of addressing two GLARING needs on the team... But by all means Mr. Ireland grab a center because we all know that is the position MOST responsible for putting points on the board and butts in the seats. Kudos Jeff.

I will forever remember this edict... 'Whenever you need a QB, draft the OL.' Brilliance. Cherish the pink slip Ireland.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

You're overstating your point.

If an FO doesn't get credit for UDFAs, then they don't get credit for FA either, those guys choose which team they go to as well. But then you can't blame them for Peyton Hillis, or free agency. But just before we veer off that path, please go watch Incognito block. He's the most consistent blocker so far this year, he's eating up everyone.

As to the drafts, you can argue Ryan would've been exactly as successful here. I can argue he would've been killed behind that OL. It's a moot point, we can't rewrite history. And FWIW, he has exactly as many playoff wins and Superbowl rings as Henne.

Clay Matthews, IMO, would've been killed for being a "one trick pony", with zero run support ability, here in Miami. Would his immediate impact be any greater than Davis? Sure, if used properly. But where would our secondary be right now if we switched those picks? Smith would be the #1 (some people argue he shouldn't even be starting) and we would be starting... who? Jason Allen? Will Allen? God forbid, Nolan Carroll? Or Bennie Sapp... he worked out great on the outside... And since the secondary has been the source of the teams woes so far, I'd say it wouldn't have been a smart pick at all.

You had Gates as a "potential steal"... that means what? They still picked him before anyone else. I can argue that "I had Tom Brady as the biggest sleeper in his draft, I don't see the genius in their scouting either"... fact of the matter is, had they not pulled the trigger and Gates ends up elsewhere producing, you'd be berating them for being so stupid they can't even see what you so easily foresaw. Or am I wrong? You're doing it with a few other picks. If I'm not wrong, then you must give credit when they make the right choice (or the choice you'd have liked, as it is...)

You argue for Ingram, who would've been picked with a #1 (either 15 or dropping down) but Daniel Thomas has more yards than him, while playing in one less game. And he went in the second, allowing us to plug a hole in the middle of the OL (again, who would've started if it wasn't for Pouncey? Berger?)

The last line (bolded) sums it up nicely. You'll praise them when the move looks good *to you*, regardless of anything else. You call the players out for not winning, but you criticize the coaching staff for the very same thing. Can't have it both ways, unless you somehow think we're a bottom feeding team - in which case, what are you going to do if they end up with a winning season, or - gasp - in the playoffs? Will they suddenly become good decisions? So players are magically good one game (winning) but bad another (losing)?

Too many logical fallacies to go through. We'll see how the forum feels after the stomp @CLE.

A FA is typically already an established player in the NFL, you know what he is or isn't. He's chasing the money, because he can. UDFA's coming out of college are simply looking for a shot to stick on a roster.

Peyton Hillis has nothing to do with free agency, they should've drafted him in the late rounds instead of Lex Hilliard, or Jalen Parmale. Everytime Miami came up to pick after the 4th round, I would say to myself, "Hillis.. Hillis"... They kept passing him up for Hilliard and Parmale.

Matt Ryan should've been the pick...."PERIOD"! That means he should've been the pick regardless of if he succeeded or failed. You always take the franchise quarterback with the #1 pick in the draft when you don't have one. It has nothing to do with his success in Atlanta, or hindsight. You're not winning with a left tackle and scrub quarterbacks. The 'Matt Ryan would get killed in Miami' argument is weak and has no legs whatsoever. The point is, Miami didn't give themselves a CHANCE to succeed with Matt Ryan as the quarterback. We KNOW where the "Hall of Fame" left tackle got 'em... it's going to get them fired.

It's a damn good thing they passed up Clay Matthews for Vontae Davis.... otherwise teams might be passing for 500+ yards on Miami's secondary. Sean Smith and Vontae Davis hasn't stopped anybody from throwing the football on Miami's defense when they want to, nor have they prevented Miami's defense from choking at all the right times. Obviously, it doesn't matter if it's Jason Allen, Nolan Carroll and Benny Sapp back there... if Davis and Smith can't seem to stay on the field anyway, and when they are, they're getting burned or giving up touchdowns.

Daniel Thomas having more yards than Mark Ingram through 2 games is irrelevant... what's relevant is who ends up the better running back, and it's going to be Ingram.


A win over the Cleveland Browns does nothing to thwart the concerns that people have with this team or the incompetence in charge of it....

Although it's good to see you've already got that one chalked up for ol' Sparano, I saw the win over the Browns being given to him by cheerleaders like you last year too....

.. as if it's going to make a difference in the long run anyway....

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Wow ... ain't hindsight great?

You wanna talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda, consider that in 2004 the Bills traded their 2005 first rounder, their 2004 2nd rounder, and their 2004 5th rounder to Dallas to get the 22nd pick which they used on ... // DRUMROLL // ... J P Losman. Do you know who was still on the board at #16 in 2005? That crappy Cali QB who plays in Green Bay now. Y'know, the kid with the beard -- what's his name? Yeah, Aaron Rodgers -- that's him.

Do you know who the Bills took at #11 in 2009? Aaron "Waste of a Roster Spot" Maybin, a one-year wonder who was too small to be an effective DE and not athletic enough to be a small LBer. Do you know who was still on the board at #11? OT Michael Oher and LB Brian Orapko, both quality starters since their rookie seasons whom the Bills could have really, really used.

Now sweetpea, when your team's FO f's up that bad in just the draft (I won't even get into other stupid personnel moves from the boys at One Bills Drive), then you can start yowling about how bad they are. All teams whiff on draftees regularly, including on first rounders. Just because you don't agree with who they picked doesn't mean it's a bad pick. Jake Long is a good, maybe even a great LT. I'd take him over Leodis McKelvin, who isn't even good enough to start if not for an injury to Terrence McGee, any day of the week.

I suggest you save up your pennies so you can buy your very own NFL team and pick all the future stars you want. Only thing is ... you gotta pick 'em before they play in the NFL not after they're successful. :crazy:

What the hell does the Bills incompetent front office have to do with anything? You act like I'm supposed to be surprised that those undersized, under-developed one-year-wonders and system quarterbacks you mentioned didn't pan out....

Tell you what sugarplum, anytime you want a lesson in how to evaluate talent, waddle your a** on over to the draft forum and I'll provide you some help.

No need for you to even save your pennies.... consider it a free sample....