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Something Bothering Me

mikethewreck

mikethewreck

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Something is bugging me about the '09 draft. I have grown to like at least most of the guys we drafted, and looking forward to them strapping on pads and producing, but does it seem like this year we weighted combine performance more than last year (and maybe more than was wise)?

I have seen many a workout warrior (Gholston comes quickly to mind) struggle in the NFL while less talented players with a strong college history step out and perform from the get go. I just seem to recall lots of "he looked good at the combine" or "had a good workout" tags being applied to '09 draftees (Folsom? Nalbone? Turner?) this year than previously. Or maybe I'm ignoring guys like Merling and Langford from last year. I know the combine is a way of evaluating raw ability but not so much a predictor of production.

Am I out to lunch (wouldn't be the first time or the last)?
 
Good question really....

I think this year's draft required a different approach than last years did....

Last years draft was more of a "meat and potatoes" draft so to speak.....laying a foundation...

This years draft was more about the skill positions....adding some much needed speed, size, and talent to areas of need....they went after production on both sides of the ball....

What I notice about this draft is that they added winners for the most part...and players that came from winning programs....

Personally, I would probably emphasize combine performance more in a skill position draft as opposed to a building the lines draft...where experience and techniques would probably be my main focus...but I would never let combine performance take precedent over what I see on film...

I think basically what Ireland and Parcells did was say to the coaching staff...."Ok...we brought in the talent as best we could...now it's up to you to coach 'em up and help them find a niche"....
 
The FO, IMO, has had an agenda. They are doing what they feel is right.

They did this year with WRs what they did with rbs last year.
 
One thing that stuck out for me about this draft was size, they mostly drafted very very big.
Chubbs
 
mikethewreck said:
Something is bugging me about the '09 draft. I have grown to like at least most of the guys we drafted, and looking forward to them strapping on pads and producing, but does it seem like this year we weighted combine performance more than last year (and maybe more than was wise)?

I have seen many a workout warrior (Gholston comes quickly to mind) struggle in the NFL while less talented players with a strong college history step out and perform from the get go. I just seem to recall lots of "he looked good at the combine" or "had a good workout" tags being applied to '09 draftees (Folsom? Nalbone? Turner?) this year than previously. Or maybe I'm ignoring guys like Merling and Langford from last year. I know the combine is a way of evaluating raw ability but not so much a predictor of production.

I don't think the combine matters much. I'd be surprised if it was more than 10% of the overall evaluation on most players. What does it tell you about a player that you don't already know by watching miles of tape?

The all star games are different. Guys get to show how they can play against the best college has to offer that year, and it can make a big difference for many players in where they are picked.
Click to expand...
 
GoonBoss said:
The FO, IMO, has had an agenda. They are doing what they feel is right.

They did this year with WRs what they did with rbs last year.
Click to expand...

You lost me on that one. What did we do with rb's last year?
 
A lot of people are pretty narrow minded about how they rate college talent. People critical of the Turner and Hartline picks are quick to mention that neither had great production at the collegiate level. Both have good size - Turner is especially big; both move well in and out of breaks; and both have adequate speed - Hartline is actually pretty fast.

The year before last, Hartline put up promising numbers and looked to be a player that would put up even better numbers in '08. His YPC did jump 9 or 10 yards, but his receptions were way down. Did he regress? Of course not. He had an inexperienced, run-first QB.

Turner had fairly modest numbers throughout his career at USC. But, he was playing with a very talented team - especially at RB - with a not very good QB (Booty) and a not very experienced QB (Sanchez). Toward the end of last season, Sanchez was finally starting to learn how to use Turner, and Turner's production went way up. He had seven TD's in his last eight games.

. . .

So, the FO selected a couple of prospects that might have been 1st or 2nd round draft picks had they played in better situations. Everyone already knows that Turner was the 1st or 2nd top WR going into college. Because the FO went with potential over production, they hamstrung their picks. One could fail. It's not likely that both will. Or, we could end up with another Langford/Merling situation.
 
mikethewreck said:
Something is bugging me about the '09 draft. I have grown to like at least most of the guys we drafted, and looking forward to them strapping on pads and producing, but does it seem like this year we weighted combine performance more than last year (and maybe more than was wise)?

I have seen many a workout warrior (Gholston comes quickly to mind) struggle in the NFL while less talented players with a strong college history step out and perform from the get go. I just seem to recall lots of "he looked good at the combine" or "had a good workout" tags being applied to '09 draftees (Folsom? Nalbone? Turner?) this year than previously. Or maybe I'm ignoring guys like Merling and Langford from last year. I know the combine is a way of evaluating raw ability but not so much a predictor of production.

Am I out to lunch (wouldn't be the first time or the last)?
Click to expand...
I don't think they weighed combine performance very much at all on the players selected. If they did, Patrick Turner and Brian Hartline would not have been drafted because there were other receivers that ran faster and jumped higher than either of them. I think they payed more attention to what they saw on film, in individual workouts and other things that fans and those in the media overlook.
 
I totally agree I alluded to this later in my post yesterday in my post was the Turner pick a fallback option to Ramses Barden. Hartline, Folsom, Clemons and Naborne fit this MO to a T. Upon further review last night on one of the NFL draft nik programs following risers and fallers in this years draft many of our picks in the draft and college free agents fit the mold of risers. Interesting
 
It's bothersome to consider history indicates most of the players we just drafted will bust. But then there's also a chance we got a few gems. As fans the most practical thing we could do is build an altar, put the draftees names on it and sacrifice a goat.
 
We don't draft guys based on the combine. They construct a draft board LONG before the combine. If anything the combine might inch someone up or down but it wouldn't put anyone on there who wasn't there to begin with.
 
Basically, all the combine does IMO is give you an assessment on a players athletic upside.....has very little to do with how the player plays football....

There's obviously a difference between running the 40 yard dash in shorts and a t-shirt empty handed, and running the 40 yard dash with head gear, shoulder pads.... while tottin' the rock....

I've never really understood why they don't just have the prospects participate in these excercises and drills wearing what they're going to be wearing when they're actually playing football....and running the 40 carrying the football, etc....

Would that be like giving a welder a plate test with an actual stinger and a welding rod....as opposed to just having him draw it on paper with a pencil?
 
The pick that bothered me the most was Brian Hartline in the 4th...I just don't get that pick...He's a Camarillo clone, but we have plenty of undersized slot recievers that are slow...I did read that Henne said he had great hands when he worked with him but he was playing catch with him, not Football. Honestly, he is extremely borderline on even making the team this year, and we may have to drop a better reciever like Armstrong or London just because he was drafted in the 4th rd this year...I wish we would have taken an interior DL or interior OL like RG or LG instead---Also, we could have taken a big FB or MLB to give some more better depth in the middle of that 3-4----I don't see him on the team a couple years from now...Feels like a wasted pick...why not trade it and pick later if your gonna pick a person who is on the roster bubble in the 4th round because we have so many WR's??? Dude wasn't exactly dominating the competition in College and all of his shortcomings in College will be seen ten-fold in the NFL.....Skinny, not fast or quick, not strong, no real Special teams potential....WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT??
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I think basically what Ireland and Parcells did was say to the coaching staff...."Ok...we brought in the talent as best we could...now it's up to you to coach 'em up and help them find a niche"....
Click to expand...

Yes its up to the coaching staff to bring these guys up and develop them and put them on the field and put them in the right situation ((( plays)))) Where they can be successfull......

every player drafted has talent ....IMO Its all about the coaches.....And the system you are running where the player can excell....

Thats why its so important to have a great coaching staff. We have that now.

1.We lacked that with wanntedt and his inability to draft or develop draftees.....Jimmy left him a great defense...Wanny did nothing for this team but trade our draft picks for QBs who were over the hill.....Feely for god sakes.....

2.Saban was a complete egomaniac and a liar.......I give him ronnie brown but when you have the second pick overall in the draft you are bound to hit on a player. Not a terrible coach,he didn't give a crap about this organization.

3. Cameron.....What the hell was he saying on his interviews man???? Worst phins coach of alltime. He got the nickname DUMBERON for a reason.
 
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