Sports Buzz: Knee bothering Moreno and ten notes, postscripts from minicamp

[Digital]

Both Sims and Egnew are on borrowed time. Lazor likes big TE's so he is going to keep and develop the versatile Lynch. But he has no other big TE to use, so Sims and/or Egnew and/or late cuts from other teams will have a legitimate shot at making the roster.

But next year I'm fairly confident we bring in another TE either through the draft or free agency, so this really is the last shot for Egnew ... and maybe Sims as well.

Here is hoping they both grab their chances and prove they belong.

Sent from my phone, so please forgive any typos.

 

[Sirspud]

Sorry guys but I just don't see Egnew developing into a legitimate NFL threat. It has nothing to do with his case of the dropsies as a rookie, but more to do with the fact that even if his hands are a vacuum, he moves across the NFL field with all the grace of a slug. He may have had a size/speed combo that worked against slower, less talented college players, but there is no way he separates regularly versus NFL linebackers who can move a lot quicker than him.

 

[Fin Fan in Cali]

I sense that Michael Egnew is probably playing for his place on the roster. He has upside because of his athleticism, flexibility and alleged good hands. However, he's still pretty insecure and still dumb as a rock. Lazor is probably looking for precise route running and greater confidence that he can make a contribution. I hope that he can show something at training camp. I expect that Arthur Lynch will be brought along slowly, but if he and Dion Sims start making some decent catches, Egnew becomes more expendable.
We may be in the market to pick up a TE like Keller, if healthy (at a significant discount) or someone else who gets cut.

Bro I believe Keller maybe done and or still healing. If he wasn't either of these I think NE would have picked him up when they had him in for a visit.

 

[cuchulainn]

Egnew is always a hot topic. I don't know that any player has ever been as negatively impacted by a Hard Knocks segment as Egnew has...

For comparisons sake, the Eagles haven't had a single TE with Dion Sims' size on their roster under Chip Kelly, but they do of Egnew's tangibles. The average weight of the Eagle's 3 TE's last year was 248 pounds, and the average of their 5 TEs this year is 247 pounds.

Based on his history and reports this month, Lazor likes using tight ends in space and splitting them out wide, where Egnew flourished in college (90+ catches as a junior). For comparison, Philly uses a "move" TE in Ertz, an inline TE in Celek, and an H-back in Casey. The common denominator is that all 3 can be moved around in some fashion.

So far, Egnew seems to be performing Ertz's move role, which Sims and Lynch aren't capable of performing. Ertz and Egnew are of similar size, and athleticism. Clay plays inline (as does Celek), but he has the versatility to do what Casey does at H-back (though not as well) - as does Egnew, with his vastly improved blocking ability since his rookie season.

Based on the fact Lazor is bringing elements of Philly to Miami, as well as his TE usage while at Virginia, it'd be odd if both Sims and Lynch are in the long term plans. Sims hasn't impressed this summer and Egnew is our best bet for a redzone threat, which we lack and sorely need. The lack of a big redzone target is why we continue to keep Binns (6-3), Williams (6-5), and Cone (6-2). We need Egnew to emerge this season as a receiving threat and redzone target as he has the size and athletic ability to jump over most defenders.

 

[clacalle]

Is Philbin throwing a last dig at Ireland's, with the mention of 4 guys picked in last years draft, as guy who have been impressive so far?

 

[hoops]

Egnew is always a hot topic. I don't know that any player has ever been as negatively impacted by a Hard Knocks segment as Egnew has...

For comparisons sake, the Eagles haven't had a single TE with Dion Sims' size on their roster under Chip Kelly, but they do of Egnew's tangibles. The average weight of the Eagle's 3 TE's last year was 248 pounds, and the average of their 5 TEs this year is 247 pounds.

Based on his history and reports this month, Lazor likes using tight ends in space and splitting them out wide, where Egnew flourished in college (90+ catches as a junior). For comparison, Philly uses a "move" TE in Ertz, an inline TE in Celek, and an H-back in Casey. The common denominator is that all 3 can be moved around in some fashion.

So far, Egnew seems to be performing Ertz's move role, which Sims and Lynch aren't capable of performing. Ertz and Egnew are of similar size, and athleticism. Clay plays inline (as does Celek), but he has the versatility to do what Casey does at H-back (though not as well) - as does Egnew, with his vastly improved blocking ability since his rookie season.

Based on the fact Lazor is bringing elements of Philly to Miami, as well as his TE usage while at Virginia, it'd be odd if both Sims and Lynch are in the long term plans. Sims hasn't impressed this summer and Egnew is our best bet for a redzone threat, which we lack and sorely need. The lack of a big redzone target is why we continue to keep Binns (6-3), Williams (6-5), and Cone (6-2). We need Egnew to emerge this season as a receiving threat and redzone target as he has the size and athletic ability to jump over most defenders.

this is very good stuff...except the part left out about egnew not being on ertz level for that very roll...i agree though that they are trying to get what the eagles want out of ertz with egnew...just that ertz is the much better player for it...and if they did want ertz like player they shouldn't have harped so much on trying to have him play in line so much his first 2 years...new offense definitely fits egnews game better as a flex option etc...but they also should have told him to drop weight...i've beaten to death on the fact that he's one speed and sluggish with the weight he carried last year and frankly wasn't very explosive and one speed in college even...at least then though he was lighter and had a little more to his game from a win option aspect in the passing game...

lynch is undersized to ever be an every down in line tight end weight wise etc...miami wants sims to be a brent celek like but the issue is sims will never be as productive in the passing game as celek was in his prime...he was a legitimate #1 tight end for years there...i think eventually sims becomes more a 3rd tight end jumbo package short yardage etc and the team looks for a true duel threat tight end that can play in line that has the proper size and frame...it's not on the roster right now

the only real option is sims ...you can develop him into a solid blocking tight end with technique work etc given the frame but you will never develop that into a legit threat in the passing game...3 years from now wouldn't surprise me if none of these tight ends not named clay was on the roster...we don't have the right personnel for the roles at this time...and there's little to no upside in the passing game with just about all of them

as for the red zone threat ertz isn't exactly a dominant red zone player either...the field condenses the physicality picks it up a level etc as you approach the tight red zone you can sneak these guys off pa for easy looks if the d gets too nosy etc but win option red zone player in house...don't see it...a lot of scheme driven and formation production from everyone not named charles clay...will be interesting to see how egnew gets off jam and physical play this year...if flexed he will see less of it...we could also line him up off the los to help with that...cause he was rerouted and had trouble getting off the los against jam when in line last year...

charles clay took it up a level last year when he showed he could be put wide and win quickly to the inside...that was an eye opener...win across the face of the defender quickly to the inside...he's the only one that has shown that ability and it opens up a lot of things for you...legitimate mismatch vs certain personnel lineups...

egnews combine numbers don't mean a damn thing cause he doesn't play to any of them...i keep hearing how great an athlete he is well it sure damn doesn't show in pads...and that's what really matters...

 

[GoonBoss]

Shocking that Moreno is having issues.

 

[spiketex]

lynch is undersized to ever be an every down in line tight end

Arthur Lynch is 6'5", 258 lbs and allegedly his butt is so big it has its own zipcode. He's a very big guy and will probably get bigger with more time in the weight room. BTW for the record, he is heavier than a lot of NFL tight ends including: Antonio Gates, Tyler Eifert, Anthony Fasano, Jermaine Gresham, Dennis Pitta, Charles Clay, Coby Fleener, Zach Ertz and 18 lbs heavier than the vaseline soldier, Kellen Winslow Jr and Jordan Reed. However, he is listed as 2" shorter and 6 lbs lighter than Gronk. I guess by definition that makes him undersized.

 

[hoops]

Arthur Lynch is 6'5", 258 lbs and allegedly his butt is so big it has its own zipcode. He's a very big guy and will probably get bigger with more time in the weight room. BTW for the record, he is heavier than a lot of NFL tight ends including: Antonio Gates, Tyler Eifert, Anthony Fasano, Jermaine Gresham, Dennis Pitta, Charles Clay, Coby Fleener, Zach Ertz and 18 lbs heavier than the vaseline soldier, Kellen Winslow Jr and Jordan Reed. However, he is listed as 2" shorter and 6 lbs lighter than Gronk. I guess by definition that makes him undersized.

just about all those guys you listed are not true #1 in line tight ends or in line tight ends period...they're flex and mismatch options and i doubt he's greshams size...he sure doesn't look it

 

[utahphinsfan]

Sherman's use of Egnew was trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

 

[cuchulainn]

this is very good stuff...except the part left out about egnew not being on ertz level for that very roll...i agree though that they are trying to get what the eagles want out of ertz with egnew...just that ertz is the much better player for it...and if they did want ertz like player they shouldn't have harped so much on trying to have him play in line so much his first 2 years...new offense definitely fits egnews game better as a flex option etc...but they also should have told him to drop weight...i've beaten to death on the fact that he's one speed and sluggish with the weight he carried last year and frankly wasn't very explosive and one speed in college even...at least then though he was lighter and had a little more to his game from a win option aspect in the passing game...

lynch is undersized to ever be an every down in line tight end weight wise etc...miami wants sims to be a brent celek like but the issue is sims will never be as productive in the passing game as celek was in his prime...he was a legitimate #1 tight end for years there...i think eventually sims becomes more a 3rd tight end jumbo package short yardage etc and the team looks for a true duel threat tight end that can play in line that has the proper size and frame...it's not on the roster right now

the only real option is sims ...you can develop him into a solid blocking tight end with technique work etc given the frame but you will never develop that into a legit threat in the passing game...3 years from now wouldn't surprise me if none of these tight ends not named clay was on the roster...we don't have the right personnel for the roles at this time...and there's little to no upside in the passing game with just about all of them

as for the red zone threat ertz isn't exactly a dominant red zone player either...the field condenses the physicality picks it up a level etc as you approach the tight red zone you can sneak these guys off pa for easy looks if the d gets too nosy etc but win option red zone player in house...don't see it...a lot of scheme driven and formation production from everyone not named charles clay...will be interesting to see how egnew gets off jam and physical play this year...if flexed he will see less of it...we could also line him up off the los to help with that...cause he was rerouted and had trouble getting off the los against jam when in line last year...

charles clay took it up a level last year when he showed he could be put wide and win quickly to the inside...that was an eye opener...win across the face of the defender quickly to the inside...he's the only one that has shown that ability and it opens up a lot of things for you...legitimate mismatch vs certain personnel lineups...

egnews combine numbers don't mean a damn thing cause he doesn't play to any of them...i keep hearing how great an athlete he is well it sure damn doesn't show in pads...and that's what really matters...

Ertz was drafted specifically for that role though by someone who had that vision for him. With Egnew, Ireland and Sherman seemed to have different ideals on how and where to use him. As Sherman is now gone, it remains to be seen how Egnew will perform under Lazor.

We know that Sherman was highly critical of his blocking and didn't use him as a move or flex TE. What we do know is that Egnew worked so hard on his blocking that he developed to the point of being used at fullback. That speaks to Egnew's dedication.

While he may never develop into an Ertz type TE, he does fit the mold and dropping 5-10 lbs should be doable if he is not longer being expected to be a blocker.

 

[dlockz]

We can keep hoping and praying with Egnew but he has showed basically nothing in two years. We can blame that on Sherman but in reality its because Egnew has not stepped up with his play in practice or the games he has been in. Lets not act like we didn't want a TE that could catch.
Egnew was overrated coming out of Mizzou and if you really watched the games in college you could see he was nothing special. We can talk about how he looks in shorts but he had no one to beat out and he still barely got on the field

 

[rent this space]

We can keep hoping and praying with Egnew but he has showed basically nothing in two years. We can blame that on Sherman but in reality its because Egnew has not stepped up with his play in practice or the games he has been in. Lets not act like we didn't want a TE that could catch.
Egnew was overrated coming out of Mizzou and if you really watched the games in college you could see he was nothing special. We can talk about how he looks in shorts but he had no one to beat out and he still barely got on the field

You're probably right, he hasn't shown anything in Miami yet. The reason for the hoping and wishing is because they are using him differently this year and the report said he has been open often. He wouldn't the first payer to blossom in a new role with a new coach.
Also, you didn't see anything in a 90 catch, All-American season?