Steeler 3-4 Versus Patriots 3-4

[Da 'Fins]

I'd like to hear other opinions on this. The reason for the comparison is that you have a Belichick disciple in Saban and a former Steeler DC - who has run that same system elsewhere - in Capers.

It seems to me that New England's 3-4 is different from the Steelers version. The Pats mix and match, sometimes running a 4-3 or a 2-5 (5 LB's). So, you never really know how they will line up. And, they just seem much more deceptive, unpredictable and 'strange' looking than the Steelers.

The Steelers D system is obviously effective, but it appears to operate out of a set lineup and what also seems to be the case is that they have some phenomenal players (e.g., Polamalu/Porter are as good as any at their position).

So, how will this work with Saban and Capers? And, do you think the styles are similar enough to match up? Or, will Capers have the ability to adjust his style to Saban's?

 

[fishfan34]

This is an excellent question and I'll be interested to see the responses myself. From what I can gather, they are two different thoughts with regards to what is run and how it's run. I think Dom will study alot of what Nick likes to do and incorportate it and run the best of both worlds. Seems to be that Nick and Bill use, like you said, alot of deception and alot of pre-snap movement so the quarterback has alot to process pre-snap... where as the Steelers version or capers version doesn't rely so much on pre-snap movement.. they hold position until the snap and then the blitzers blitz whatever is going to happen happens as far as placement of the defender... therefore not giving the QB anything to go on as far as tipping off who or where a blitz may come from. I think Dom and Nick will be burning alot of midnight oil to incorporate the best of both, but let's remember what Nick said about a Miami Dolphins system. You'll probably see more of Nick's style, especially since it started to be more and more successful towards the end of the year as the players were more comfortable in it.. with the exception of Reggie Howard.. (god help us)

 

[Nicky Napoleon]

I think Capers brings an extensive knowledge about the 3-4, he knows what type of players he needs and I think that is where he will be most valuable.

The two systems are different the Steelers run a true 3-4, while the Patsies run more of a hybrid. I think we will be more of a hybrid, that being said Capers may allow Saban to focus more on being the head coach and not the HC/DC.

 

[SMadison29]

I tend to think that the Steelers LBs are mostly a product of the system. They have had many great names over the years: Kevin Greene, Greg Lloyd, Kindrell Bell, Chris Brown, Levon Kirkland, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter... Not very many have been successful away from Pitt.

 

[FinNasty]

I'd like to hear other opinions on this. The reason for the comparison is that you have a Belichick disciple in Saban and a former Steeler DC - who has run that same system elsewhere - in Capers.

It seems to me that New England's 3-4 is different from the Steelers version. The Pats mix and match, sometimes running a 4-3 or a 2-5 (5 LB's). So, you never really know how they will line up. And, they just seem much more deceptive, unpredictable and 'strange' looking than the Steelers.

The Steelers D system is obviously effective, but it appears to operate out of a set lineup and what also seems to be the case is that they have some phenomenal players (e.g., Polamalu/Porter are as good as any at their position).

So, how will this work with Saban and Capers? And, do you think the styles are similar enough to match up? Or, will Capers have the ability to adjust his style to Saban's?

I thought this was a great topic... and posted it in the VIP area too (hope you dont mind :wink: )

I think we are going to have the best of both worlds... To combine to form the ultimate hybrid (4-3/3-4"Pats"/3-4"Steel Curtain") that will be extremely difficult to gameplan for... :evil:

 

[AquaAssasin]

I tend to think that the Steelers LBs are mostly a product of the system. They have had many great names over the years: Kevin Greene, Greg Lloyd, Kindrell Bell, Chris Brown, Levon Kirkland, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter... Not very many have been successful away from Pitt.

Yeah cuz they cant cover worth of cr-p. The 3-4 is a blitzing defense from the LB position. Those LB can blitz but cant take on blockers or cover. Some can cover but most just blitz just like the players you stated..

 

[AquaAssasin]

its a great defense but it has its flaws. If we dont get a NT that can hog up the bulk of the double teams our 3-4 wont get anything done.

The NT is the key to the 3-4 then comes the LB's.

 

[PhinsPhan]

I tend to think that the Steelers LBs are mostly a product of the system. They have had many great names over the years: Kevin Greene, Greg Lloyd, Kindrell Bell, Chris Brown, Levon Kirkland, Jason Gildon, Joey Porter... Not very many have been successful away from Pitt.

I was thinking about this the other day. Now they even have Clark Haggans, Larry Foote and James Farrior seeming to come out of no where since last year.

But Chris Brown, Levon Kirkland both were pro bowl calibre after they left. I think Kevin Greene was just too old. You have to consider that alot are let go because of things like injury or age and that may be the cause for the weaker performance outside or Pitt. I think it must be their coaching that is churning them out.

 

[PhinsPhan]

its a great defense but it has its flaws. If we dont get a NT that can hog up the bulk of the double teams our 3-4 wont get anything done.

The NT is the key to the 3-4 then comes the LB's.

The good thing is we have two legitimate 3-4 DEs already. Plus some guys that could potentially be hybrid players. Bowens/Taylor/Roth. If Keith Traylor stays he could be a good NT but we would probably have to sub him out with someone else to keep him fresh.


I think the key to pittsburghs defense has always been pressure. They just come up with Vanilla blitz schemes but they disguise them well. The Pats on the other hand use more deception to get pressure. But as far as key concepts I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[LarryFinFan]

I'd like to hear other opinions on this. The reason for the comparison is that you have a Belichick disciple in Saban and a former Steeler DC - who has run that same system elsewhere - in Capers.

It seems to me that New England's 3-4 is different from the Steelers version. The Pats mix and match, sometimes running a 4-3 or a 2-5 (5 LB's). So, you never really know how they will line up. And, they just seem much more deceptive, unpredictable and 'strange' looking than the Steelers.

The Steelers D system is obviously effective, but it appears to operate out of a set lineup and what also seems to be the case is that they have some phenomenal players (e.g., Polamalu/Porter are as good as any at their position).

So, how will this work with Saban and Capers? And, do you think the styles are similar enough to match up? Or, will Capers have the ability to adjust his style to Saban's?

The big difference is that BB uses multiple personnel sets whereas Capers used a lot of the same personnel, just different sets. Capers ran more of the 3-4 set than any other, but in both Texas, Carolina and Pitts, he had the personnel to do it that way. He obviously had better personnel in Pitts than Texas, but you get my point. Saban, here has been running a hybrid of the two systems largely due to the personnel. If we ran a true 3-4, well we can't we just don't have the personnel, so the weaknesses have to covered up. JT is not the perfect OE for Capers D, but that's not to say he's poor by any stretch. ZT is not the perfect ILB for this D, but that's not to say that any deficiences in the true 3-4 can't be covered up. The thing that multiple sets gives you is flexiblity and confusion of the offense. That extra second or two it takes the QBs and WRs to figure out the coverage, is just what the front seven need to get to the qb...Obviously, we'll still run more of the hybrid set. Remember in Pitts he had great personnel for that scheme and he didn't have to change personnel which adds another element of confusion to the QBs read of the coverage....That is the difference I've seen in the two styles...

But keep one thing in mind when talking about who got what from who, BB is a Parcels disciple. Thats where he learned the base D that he runs. Saban and he adjusted that concept into what it has become today. Saban joined BB in Cleveland but their relationship goes way beyond that. I know this is splitting hairs, but I don't give BB credit for Saban, I think it might be the other way around....but then again, I'm a little biased....

 

[Dolfan5000]

its a great defense but it has its flaws. If we dont get a NT that can hog up the bulk of the double teams our 3-4 wont get anything done.

The NT is the key to the 3-4 then comes the LB's.

If we were smart, we should do something and draft someone like that or trade for Kelly Gregg or someone like that.

 

[Disgustipate]

I've heard Belichick explain the differences between his style and the Pittsburgh style 3-4(Capers as well).

Belichick has his DEs play straight 2-gap pretty much every play. Pittsburgh has it's defensive ends stunt, and they are alot more blitz heavy then the Patriots style.

 

[Da 'Fins]

This is an excellent question and I'll be interested to see the responses myself. From what I can gather, they are two different thoughts with regards to what is run and how it's run. I think Dom will study alot of what Nick likes to do and incorportate it and run the best of both worlds. Seems to be that Nick and Bill use, like you said, alot of deception and alot of pre-snap movement so the quarterback has alot to process pre-snap... where as the Steelers version or capers version doesn't rely so much on pre-snap movement.. they hold position until the snap and then the blitzers blitz whatever is going to happen happens as far as placement of the defender... therefore not giving the QB anything to go on as far as tipping off who or where a blitz may come from. I think Dom and Nick will be burning alot of midnight oil to incorporate the best of both, but let's remember what Nick said about a Miami Dolphins system. You'll probably see more of Nick's style, especially since it started to be more and more successful towards the end of the year as the players were more comfortable in it.. with the exception of Reggie Howard.. (god help us)

Excellent points. I tend to prefer Nick's style, but perhaps Dom will add some things. I also agree that Dom will probably learn a lot from Nick. If he incorporates the ideas, it will relieve Nick of some responsibility and that will be good.

 

[utahphinsfan]

It seems to me that New England's 3-4 is different from the Steelers version. The Pats mix and match, sometimes running a 4-3 or a 2-5 (5 LB's). So, you never really know how they will line up. And, they just seem much more deceptive, unpredictable and 'strange' looking than the Steelers.

Exactly. I think the Pats are more flexible and unconventional. Belichick would line up in a 5-5-1 if he felt the need.

The Steelers is a more conventional 3-4 w/ a lot of zone blitz now that LeBeau is back in charge.

 

[PhinSoldia]

i am afraid of Bruschi and Mcginnist MUCH more than big mouth Porter and Tiny Foote