Steve Muench from Scouts Inc. Answers My (Our) Two-Back Question | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Steve Muench from Scouts Inc. Answers My (Our) Two-Back Question

infiltrateib

infiltrateib

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Ryan (Whales, VA): When Ricky comes back, does Miami's offense become top-10? Putting in 2-back sets and shifting Ronnie Brown out wide forces the defense to put a LB or safety on a 240lb beast. Is this as good as Holmes/Johnson in KC?

SportsNation Steve Muench: (12:45 PM ET ) Ryan I like your enthusiam but not it even close. Holmes is a better all-around back than Williams and Johnson's superior experience gives him the edge over Brown. Besides that they have Trent Green under center while Miami has Frerrotte, Brown and Williams is a great duo but not that great. At least not yet anyways.


(Please also note that my city/state is funny.)
 
When did Ronnie balloon up to 240? Last I checked he was 230. If that is the case then he needs to lose some weight to regain his speed.
 
I disagree with him all together.

Miami has superior Wideouts compared to KC.
Miami has a QB that is serviceable.
Holmes stud status I question.
Johnson has done nothing in the NFL but cry.

Miami's O line sucks
But with the wide outs I believe Ricky, Ronnie will be more dangerous then KC's duo.
 
Johnson has hardly any experiencem, what's he talking about?

Whales, VA...huhuhuh, Ron Burgundy
 
"Johnson's superior experience" ?? Get the &#*$ out of here. Ronnie has more experience with the teams and games he played for 4 YEARS at Auburn than the 1 YEAR at PSU Johnson contributed and the 2 years on the pine in KC.

I'm a Trent Green fan, but I think from a throwing perspective, Green and Frerotte throwing very similar balls, physically speaking.

Holmes is no longer the Holmes of 2-4 years ago.

*side note* How is Sammie Parker still a #3 on that team? I've watched them many a time and this guy is terrible. Lots of speed but hands of stone and oblivious. Then he also finds it funny somehow when things go wrong because he is always walking back with the nervous smile on his face.
 
He got too stuck addressing the KC comparisons rather than the VERY innovative offense we can potentially have with both Ricky and Ronnie on the field. I think some people will have to see it before they're able to think outside the box enough about it.
 
I don't fault the guy's logic. Larry Johnson DOES have more experience than Ronnie and furthermore has already proven that he has the "it" for a running back that made him a first rounder. Ronnie Brown showed against the Panthers that he MIGHT have that "it" but he still needs good half dozen more games before he actually proves that he has "it"

And yes, I would say that Priest Holmes is probably a better back than Ricky Williams, right now. Ricky in 2002 was incredible but Ricky in 2003 was not better than Priest.

Plus yes, Trent Green way better than Gus Frerotte, KC's OL way way way WAY better than our OL (especially when Roaf gets back), and I wouldn't knock Eddie Kennison cuz you know he's actually put together those seasons that Chris Chambers just keeps finding that he can't quite put together.

Actually I would take our being so closely compared to the Chiefs as a pretty darn good thing even if we're not quite the Chiefs. The Chiefs have had an awesome offense the past few years.
 
Emskirch said:
I disagree with him all together.

Miami has superior Wideouts compared to KC.
Miami has a QB that is serviceable.
Holmes stud status I question.
Johnson has done nothing in the NFL but cry.

Miami's O line sucks
But with the wide outs I believe Ricky, Ronnie will be more dangerous then KC's duo.
Click to expand...

you lost me at Miami's oline sucks. We've only allowed 2 sacks. ronnie got 132 yds two weeks ago. What are you talking about exactly?
 
I dont see Trent Green as being that much a better QB then Gus....yes, he does have some incredible games stats wise, but quite often they are because KC's defense is giving up a ton of points and Green is forced to throw it 50+ times.
 
i think our situation is no where near holmes/johnson...

holmes/johnson are just 1 and 2 on the depth chart... with ricky and ronnie we'll be using both of them on the field at the same time... you dont see holmes and johnson back there together... but with ronnie he can be a FB and hes got 10x better hands than either holmes or johnson, so does ricky actually...

our situation is entirely different, and mentioning them in the question kinda diverted his attention from talking about ricky and ronnie...
 
Emskirch said:
I disagree with him all together.

Miami has superior Wideouts compared to KC.
Miami has a QB that is serviceable.
Holmes stud status I question.
Johnson has done nothing in the NFL but cry.

Miami's O line sucks
But with the wide outs I believe Ricky, Ronnie will be more dangerous then KC's duo.
Click to expand...


WRs...stats say ours are worse.
QB...serviceable ?? That's a laugh...Gus is a backup, period. Trent is a light years ahead of Gus in ability.
Holmes...not a stud ?? Well, he was second to RW in 2003 and ahead of RW in 2002 (might have the years reversed, but same results)...He has had injury problems last year (of course RW was on walkabout) so those two at least cancel each other out.
Johnson broke out the second half of last season and looks good this year too. Brown can't be compared to him (although physicallly they are similar) just yet.

The bottom line with his comments is that KC has proven more (offensively) than the Fins...Could they be compared at the end of this season...yea. But we have to prove something first...afterall, RW isn't back yet and we really don't know how it's going to shake out...It's exciting to think about and the potential is there..but I have to see it first...
 
Roman529 said:
I dont see Trent Green as being that much a better QB then Gus....
Click to expand...

That's because you're a bit of a homer, sorry man...

arsenal said:
holmes/johnson are just 1 and 2 on the depth chart... with ricky and ronnie we'll be using both of them on the field at the same time...
Click to expand...

That is an excellent point. Where Ricky and Ronnie may fall slightly short of Priest and Larry as pure tailbacks, they will have a chance to make up for in terms of overall offensive success by having strength/weakness profiles that allow them to be on the field at the same time whereas it does not make much sense to put Priest and Larry on the field at the same time. Ricky and Ronnie have a chance at being a more overall effective offensive weapon as a tandem than Priest and Larry, but as I mentioned in terms of talking about the individual comparisons as pure tailbacks yes you'd probably rely on Johnson's experience over Ronnie Brown right now, and you would also rely on Priest Holmes over Ricky Williams.

What a great bunch of backs we're talking about though. Four guys that truly are premier runners.
 
infiltrateib said:
Ryan (Whales, VA): When Ricky comes back, does Miami's offense become top-10? Putting in 2-back sets and shifting Ronnie Brown out wide forces the defense to put a LB or safety on a 240lb beast. Is this as good as Holmes/Johnson in KC?

SportsNation Steve Muench: (12:45 PM ET ) Ryan I like your enthusiam but not it even close. Holmes is a better all-around back than Williams and Johnson's superior experience gives him the edge over Brown. Besides that they have Trent Green under center while Miami has Frerrotte, Brown and Williams is a great duo but not that great. At least not yet anyways.


(Please also note that my city/state is funny.)
Click to expand...

I totally disagree with this guys take.

RW was said to be the best RB prospect in YEARS and the most talented player in that entire draft (a draft with Culpepper and McNabb)

RB is also considered a blue chip prospect coming into the NFL.

Where were Johnson and Holmes rated?

As far as production, RW has had the chance to prove his talents and imo he has done that. Holmes has had great numbers in a offense that offered balanced and a great OL. I doubt Holmes could do what RW has done with the Miami OL and offense.

I would also take RB over Johnson.

This is a typical response from a media type that doesn't investigate the issues or put a lot of thought into it. Simply put, he has seen Johnson and Holmes be successful, and hasnt seen what RW and RB can do together, so he has no frame of reference and is unable to THINK and PROJECT any new knowledge.

Too many "monkey see, monkey do" types in the sports media, if you ask me.
 
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