Sunday ticket prices released for YouTube
- Thread starter Finfan83nj
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Tuaffinity and Beyond
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holy ****
The base package last season on Direct was $299. But as usual I will pay for it.
I am going in for that presale $289 for Sunday Ticket + RedZone.
No longer have to watch NFC East games at 4pm! ****ing awesome.
No longer have to watch NFC East games at 4pm! ****ing awesome.
susser2000
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That's not bad, I was anticipating spending more money.
Fintastic2124
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This is huge news and a long time coming!
Supposedly it's in the works but they weren't ready for deployment by this season.
Jesus. $249 is a pretty penny. I wonder how long the presale lasts because I'm not ponying up until August at soonest.
What's pissing me off is that I don't think we'll see a single game of it in NATIVE 4k. This isn't a new thing pissing me off but I did some digging this weekend because for the life of me I couldn't figure out why on YTTV that the Sunday broadcast of The Masters wasn't in 4k.
So, Fox has committed to broadcasting all of its 2023 NFL games in 4K HDR. This sounds good (keep in mind that ST is 100% coming to us from CBS and Fox who are actually shooting the games and YTTV is simply the pass through medium). But it's not native 4k. What this means is, it's shot with 1080i and 720P (rarely it's 1080P which is the best of the three and Blu-Ray quality) cameras and then digitally upgraded to 4k. What THAT means is it's pretty much placebo juice which will mostly look no better than 1080P. To 97% of the world they'll feel good that it says 4K and they will pay more for a 4K feed. However, to the AV whackos like myself that actually know a thing about this stuff, we know it's just marketing until they actually start shooting the games with 4K cameras.
Here's a good article about it. https://www.nexttv.com/news/fox-football-goes-4k-ish-once-again-were-looking-for-viewers-who-care
An older article from December. I think the title is wrong as Fox has since announced they will broadcast the games in upgraded 4K HDR so of course YTTV will take more of your money for faux 4k. https://thedesk.net/2022/12/google-nfl-sunday-ticket-4k-uhd-streams/
“We haven’t gotten into production specifics [with the NFL],” Mohan told The Verge. “As you know, the Sunday Ticket package is basically the games that are produced by CBS and Fox. The regular season, Sunday games, out-of-market.”
Translation: The same feeds that CBS and Fox provide to broadcast TV viewers are going to be the same feeds that Google offers NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers through YouTube and YouTube TV when the rights transfer away from DirecTV, starting with the next football season.
That isn’t to say that will be the case forever: Broadcasters are already pushing for the adoption of a new technology called ATSC 3.0 that promises to deliver several enhancements, including support for 4K video signals. (The current technology, ATSC 1.0, doesn’t support anything better than high definition.) As more broadcasters sign on ATSC 3.0 signals, there will likely be a bigger push to offer more content in 4K.
Some broadcasters are already experimenting with offering select sports matches from other leagues in 4K — the recent FIFA 2022 World Cup soccer tournament, for example, offered 4K feeds, which were passed along by Fox Sports through their app, on ad-supported streamer Tubi and on some video platforms like Fubo TV and YouTube TV.
Even without 4K support, the NFL Sunday Ticket could still look better on YouTube compared to what was offered on DirecTV. Cable and satellite TV platform typically compress video signals to the point where most TV viewers notice digital blocks, or “artifacts,” around the edges of people and objects across channels. Sports fans typically notice this the most, due to the fact-paced nature of games where a lot of motion can result in more artifacts than what would normally be found on an ordinary TV show or movie.
Streaming services typically don’t have this problem: Platforms like YouTube and AmazonPrime Video use a mixture of new video codecs and advanced compression technology to send high-quality video feeds to streamers with few noticeable artifacts. Google, in particular, has been aggressively pushing for the adoption of a new video standard called AV1, which offers smaller streaming file sizes with better video quality. YouTube and YouTube TV both support AV1, and the technology is expected to be used by both platforms for NFL Sunday Ticket when it debuts next year."
Quite simply. ATSC helps out quite a bit. However, until the cameras used to shoot the games are 4k, the **** coming to your tv ain't really 4k and is technomagically upgraded. It will look better than on normal broadcast but it still isn't the real McCoy.
Another article says that FIFA world cup WAS in native 4K because FIFA wanted it. However, In the US, the cost doesn't seem justified probably because they lie to us and upgrade it to save pennies.
"Fox Sports created some buzz ahead of the NFL playoffs with word that all its coverage of this year's playoff games, including Super Bowl LVII, will be produced in high dynamic range (HDR) at 1080p and "broadcast in 4K." Fox Sports is billing it as the first time every game of the NFL Playoffs and the Super Bowl "will be broadcast in 4K by one network."
Several traditional and Internet-delivered pay-TV services, including Altice USA, Comcast, Cox Communications, DirecTV, Dish Network, FuboTV, Verizon Fios and YouTube TV, are on board to bring Fox Sports' 4K-based NFL feeds into US homes.
While that all sounds like a great plug for the potential of 4K, a video format that provides about four times the resolution of HD, the truth of the matter is that Fox Sports won't be producing and distributing the games in native 4K. Instead, the games are being produced in 1080p/HDR, and effectively "upscaled" or "upconverted" to 4K, much as Fox Sports has done with similar broadcasts billed as being in 4K.
That upscaled signal doesn't have any more detail than what can be seen in the native 1080p signal. So, it's debatable – and entirely subjective – as to whether the upscaled version even looks better, explains streaming media industry analyst Dan Rayburn. Plus, some 4K TVs that are a few years old "struggle with upscaling," he adds.
While the addition of HDR aims to provide more vivid colors and blacker blacks, it's debatable as to whether consumers will truly think the upconverted 4K feed of the games will look much better than regular HD. I watched some of Fox's 4K coverage of the World Cup on a 4K TV connected to a 4K-capable set-top box, and didn't see a huge difference, to the point that I usually watched the regular HD feed instead.
Update: A recent exception, industry watcher/analyst Phillip Swann points out, is that Fox did provide native 4K coverage of the 2022 FIFA World Cup (thanks to FIFA's decision to originate the feeds in native 4K).
Rayburn says Fox Sports' characterization of their 4K NFL playoff coverage is accurate but could use a bit more clarity. "It certainly created confusion, because I saw all kinds of people writing that the Super Bowl is really gonna be in 4K. No, it's not," he said.
Fox Sports was asked what aspects are driving its decision to upconvert 1080p HDR to 4K rather than going with native 4K. Rayburn speculates that it's simply a cost-quality tradeoff that makes it difficult for them, as it would be for any other broadcaster, to justify the additional costs to produce and distribute events in native 4K.
4K devoid of a business case
But Rayburn believes that there's a bigger story afoot – that it's abundantly clear that there's still no economic justification for Fox Sports and other programmers and broadcasters to produce and distribute content in native 4K.
"Fox Sports and others are still clearly saying because of what they're seeing from consumers, that 4K is just not that important," Rayburn said.
In a blog Rayburn posted last August, he found that 4K still makes up a sliver of the volume of video bits delivered across content delivery networks (CDNs). He noted that multiple CDNs said that 4K/UHD makes up less than 10% of those bits, about the same as what they saw in the prior year. More generally, he found that various streaming providers and platforms were likewise stripping out some of their higher encodes and bit-rate ladders, presumably to save on costs.
"For all the talk of 4K in the streaming industry, we have yet to see much in the way of real adoption based on the total volume of hours viewed or total bits delivered," Rayburn wrote then.
The adoption of 4K TVs is a different story, as the capability is practically standard in many of the latest connected TV models. According to Interpret, 60% of US smart TV owners had a 4K smart TV at home as of Q3 2022.
Rayburn argues that native 4K still lacks a business case. "There has to be a business purpose for why you're doing something," he said. "There has to be a return on investment if I'm going to spend this money ... There's no business value [in 4K] for the companies that are making money in advertising, because there's nothing that tells us that if it's in 4K, you deliver and sell more ads. There's no way to monetize the extra costs that it takes to do it in 4K."
Shooting for the lowest common denominator
Plus, he's yet to hear of anyone saying they won't watch a streaming event, TV show or movie that's not in 4K.
Based on what some other broadcasters and streaming services are doing these days, it's clear that the ROI for 4K simply isn't there yet, and perhaps may never get there. Amazon Prime Video, for example, did not produce its exclusive Thursday night NFL package in 4K. And Apple is going with HD for its expansive coverage of Major League Soccer.
That all speaks to "scale and reach, with a good enough video quality," Rayburn said. "The lowest common denominator is what everybody's going for."
Covering the costs for 4K
Meanwhile, some streaming services charge a heavy premium for 4K, presumably to help cover the costs of delivery.
Curiosity Stream, the direct-to-consumer, Internet-delivered service started up by cable industry legend and Discovery founder John Hendricks, sells its baseline HD tier for $2.99 per month, but its tier with the 4K catalog fetches $9.99 per month. To get 4K fare on Netflix, one must opt for its $19.99 per month "premium" tier, versus $15.49 for a "standard" tier offering 1080p content and $9.99 for a "basic" plan limited to 720p quality.
So, Fox has committed to broadcasting all of its 2023 NFL games in 4K HDR. This sounds good (keep in mind that ST is 100% coming to us from CBS and Fox who are actually shooting the games and YTTV is simply the pass through medium). But it's not native 4k. What this means is, it's shot with 1080i and 720P (rarely it's 1080P which is the best of the three and Blu-Ray quality) cameras and then digitally upgraded to 4k. What THAT means is it's pretty much placebo juice which will mostly look no better than 1080P. To 97% of the world they'll feel good that it says 4K and they will pay more for a 4K feed. However, to the AV whackos like myself that actually know a thing about this stuff, we know it's just marketing until they actually start shooting the games with 4K cameras.
Here's a good article about it. https://www.nexttv.com/news/fox-football-goes-4k-ish-once-again-were-looking-for-viewers-who-care
An older article from December. I think the title is wrong as Fox has since announced they will broadcast the games in upgraded 4K HDR so of course YTTV will take more of your money for faux 4k. https://thedesk.net/2022/12/google-nfl-sunday-ticket-4k-uhd-streams/
“We haven’t gotten into production specifics [with the NFL],” Mohan told The Verge. “As you know, the Sunday Ticket package is basically the games that are produced by CBS and Fox. The regular season, Sunday games, out-of-market.”
Translation: The same feeds that CBS and Fox provide to broadcast TV viewers are going to be the same feeds that Google offers NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers through YouTube and YouTube TV when the rights transfer away from DirecTV, starting with the next football season.
That isn’t to say that will be the case forever: Broadcasters are already pushing for the adoption of a new technology called ATSC 3.0 that promises to deliver several enhancements, including support for 4K video signals. (The current technology, ATSC 1.0, doesn’t support anything better than high definition.) As more broadcasters sign on ATSC 3.0 signals, there will likely be a bigger push to offer more content in 4K.
Some broadcasters are already experimenting with offering select sports matches from other leagues in 4K — the recent FIFA 2022 World Cup soccer tournament, for example, offered 4K feeds, which were passed along by Fox Sports through their app, on ad-supported streamer Tubi and on some video platforms like Fubo TV and YouTube TV.
Even without 4K support, the NFL Sunday Ticket could still look better on YouTube compared to what was offered on DirecTV. Cable and satellite TV platform typically compress video signals to the point where most TV viewers notice digital blocks, or “artifacts,” around the edges of people and objects across channels. Sports fans typically notice this the most, due to the fact-paced nature of games where a lot of motion can result in more artifacts than what would normally be found on an ordinary TV show or movie.
Streaming services typically don’t have this problem: Platforms like YouTube and AmazonPrime Video use a mixture of new video codecs and advanced compression technology to send high-quality video feeds to streamers with few noticeable artifacts. Google, in particular, has been aggressively pushing for the adoption of a new video standard called AV1, which offers smaller streaming file sizes with better video quality. YouTube and YouTube TV both support AV1, and the technology is expected to be used by both platforms for NFL Sunday Ticket when it debuts next year."
Quite simply. ATSC helps out quite a bit. However, until the cameras used to shoot the games are 4k, the **** coming to your tv ain't really 4k and is technomagically upgraded. It will look better than on normal broadcast but it still isn't the real McCoy.
Another article says that FIFA world cup WAS in native 4K because FIFA wanted it. However, In the US, the cost doesn't seem justified probably because they lie to us and upgrade it to save pennies.
"Fox Sports created some buzz ahead of the NFL playoffs with word that all its coverage of this year's playoff games, including Super Bowl LVII, will be produced in high dynamic range (HDR) at 1080p and "broadcast in 4K." Fox Sports is billing it as the first time every game of the NFL Playoffs and the Super Bowl "will be broadcast in 4K by one network."
Several traditional and Internet-delivered pay-TV services, including Altice USA, Comcast, Cox Communications, DirecTV, Dish Network, FuboTV, Verizon Fios and YouTube TV, are on board to bring Fox Sports' 4K-based NFL feeds into US homes.
While that all sounds like a great plug for the potential of 4K, a video format that provides about four times the resolution of HD, the truth of the matter is that Fox Sports won't be producing and distributing the games in native 4K. Instead, the games are being produced in 1080p/HDR, and effectively "upscaled" or "upconverted" to 4K, much as Fox Sports has done with similar broadcasts billed as being in 4K.
That upscaled signal doesn't have any more detail than what can be seen in the native 1080p signal. So, it's debatable – and entirely subjective – as to whether the upscaled version even looks better, explains streaming media industry analyst Dan Rayburn. Plus, some 4K TVs that are a few years old "struggle with upscaling," he adds.
While the addition of HDR aims to provide more vivid colors and blacker blacks, it's debatable as to whether consumers will truly think the upconverted 4K feed of the games will look much better than regular HD. I watched some of Fox's 4K coverage of the World Cup on a 4K TV connected to a 4K-capable set-top box, and didn't see a huge difference, to the point that I usually watched the regular HD feed instead.
Update: A recent exception, industry watcher/analyst Phillip Swann points out, is that Fox did provide native 4K coverage of the 2022 FIFA World Cup (thanks to FIFA's decision to originate the feeds in native 4K).
Rayburn says Fox Sports' characterization of their 4K NFL playoff coverage is accurate but could use a bit more clarity. "It certainly created confusion, because I saw all kinds of people writing that the Super Bowl is really gonna be in 4K. No, it's not," he said.
Fox Sports was asked what aspects are driving its decision to upconvert 1080p HDR to 4K rather than going with native 4K. Rayburn speculates that it's simply a cost-quality tradeoff that makes it difficult for them, as it would be for any other broadcaster, to justify the additional costs to produce and distribute events in native 4K.
4K devoid of a business case
But Rayburn believes that there's a bigger story afoot – that it's abundantly clear that there's still no economic justification for Fox Sports and other programmers and broadcasters to produce and distribute content in native 4K.
"Fox Sports and others are still clearly saying because of what they're seeing from consumers, that 4K is just not that important," Rayburn said.
In a blog Rayburn posted last August, he found that 4K still makes up a sliver of the volume of video bits delivered across content delivery networks (CDNs). He noted that multiple CDNs said that 4K/UHD makes up less than 10% of those bits, about the same as what they saw in the prior year. More generally, he found that various streaming providers and platforms were likewise stripping out some of their higher encodes and bit-rate ladders, presumably to save on costs.
"For all the talk of 4K in the streaming industry, we have yet to see much in the way of real adoption based on the total volume of hours viewed or total bits delivered," Rayburn wrote then.
The adoption of 4K TVs is a different story, as the capability is practically standard in many of the latest connected TV models. According to Interpret, 60% of US smart TV owners had a 4K smart TV at home as of Q3 2022.
Rayburn argues that native 4K still lacks a business case. "There has to be a business purpose for why you're doing something," he said. "There has to be a return on investment if I'm going to spend this money ... There's no business value [in 4K] for the companies that are making money in advertising, because there's nothing that tells us that if it's in 4K, you deliver and sell more ads. There's no way to monetize the extra costs that it takes to do it in 4K."
Shooting for the lowest common denominator
Plus, he's yet to hear of anyone saying they won't watch a streaming event, TV show or movie that's not in 4K.
Based on what some other broadcasters and streaming services are doing these days, it's clear that the ROI for 4K simply isn't there yet, and perhaps may never get there. Amazon Prime Video, for example, did not produce its exclusive Thursday night NFL package in 4K. And Apple is going with HD for its expansive coverage of Major League Soccer.
That all speaks to "scale and reach, with a good enough video quality," Rayburn said. "The lowest common denominator is what everybody's going for."
Covering the costs for 4K
Meanwhile, some streaming services charge a heavy premium for 4K, presumably to help cover the costs of delivery.
Curiosity Stream, the direct-to-consumer, Internet-delivered service started up by cable industry legend and Discovery founder John Hendricks, sells its baseline HD tier for $2.99 per month, but its tier with the 4K catalog fetches $9.99 per month. To get 4K fare on Netflix, one must opt for its $19.99 per month "premium" tier, versus $15.49 for a "standard" tier offering 1080p content and $9.99 for a "basic" plan limited to 720p quality.
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So, keep all of that in mind before you plunk down extra cash for that 8K TV that's at Best Buy. I'm on my third 4K tv over a span of 10 years and we still aren't even able to watch a live sports game in this country that is shot in and streamed in native 4k.....
This is the biggest example of cart in front of the horse TV marketing vs. content ever.
Remember the super bowl a couple months ago? BROADCAST in 4K HDR? Yep. SHOT in 4k? Nope. UPSCALED.
tvanswerman.com
This is the biggest example of cart in front of the horse TV marketing vs. content ever.
Remember the super bowl a couple months ago? BROADCAST in 4K HDR? Yep. SHOT in 4k? Nope. UPSCALED.
The Super Bowl In 4K: Will It Be Native 4K Or Upscaled? - The TV Answer Man!
TV Answer Man, I’ve read that the Super Bowl will be in 4K, but will Fox offer native 4K like they did for the World Cup or will it be upscaled 4K like they have done for the playoffs? I’m hoping for native 4K but I don’t have my hopes up too high!! — Robert, […]
tvanswerman.com
Gonna be awesome on my 99 dollar straight talk 
phone 
phone
Tuaffinity and Beyond
Active Roster
Yeah I know just use the OLED for gaming and movies that are 4K and resign to the fact I’m watching tv as glorified “4K”