Tannehill and Sanchez, too little experience? | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tannehill and Sanchez, too little experience?

Because facing bad teams is completely different than facing good / average teams that have no desire to win. Just look at the last Jets / Dolphins game. The Dolphins also won 11 games in 08, while the Jets needed help to win 9 in 09.

Do yourself a favor. Don 't bring up 08. That was a smoke and mirrors team. Playing a last place schedule, winning 7 games by 7 pts or less to teams that were .500 or worse. Beating SF, SEA, KC and OAK, the leagues worst, was nothing to brag about.

It was fun to see, but nothing memorable or real. They promptly got smushed in the PO game against BALT, where noodle arm, threw 4 INTs.
 
They also beat NE and had they lost to Houston the Texans would have made the playoffs instead of the Jets. The bottom line is the dolphins took advantage of the weakest sched we have seen in a long time, they took care of business against mostly bad teams. The jets did what they had to do to stay in contention w/ a rookie QB and when they got the benefit of Indy resting starters for a qtr and a half they took advantage..


I don't admit anything, the Ravens kind of have our # but I guarantee you we would have given them a much better agme than you did. The '09 Ravens w/ a 2nd yr QB didn't compete against Indy the week before the jets trailed by only 3 w/ under 10 mins left.

The jets proved they belonged in postseason, Miami proved they were a product of a weak sched. Both earned their postseason berths while one stayed around much longer b/c they were a much better team.

Losing 6 out of 7 and losing to teams like 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax, and 9-7 Atl, is doing what you have to do to stay in contention? :idk: Again, facing bad teams (and beating them) is completely different than losing to the bad teams and then facing 2 teams that not only rest the starters, but have absolutely no desire to win.

It doesn't matter to me how the 09 Ravens played the Colts when the end result is a loss. It is the same result that the Jets had the very next week. The 08 Ravens would have beat the 09 Jets without a doubt. It doesn't matter if you think it would have been a close game or not. The end result would be a Jets loss. That same 09 Jets team that you think proved they belonged in the playoffs would have lost just like the team you say proved they didn't belong.

If it wasn't for the scheduling, the Jets wouldn't have even made the playoffs. If the Jets had to face the Colts earlier in the season and then Miami late in the season, things would have been totally different.

Do yourself a favor. Don 't bring up 08. That was a smoke and mirrors team. Playing a last place schedule, winning 7 games by 7 pts or less to teams that were .500 or worse. Beating SF, SEA, KC and OAK, the leagues worst, was nothing to brag about.

It was fun to see, but nothing memorable or real. They promptly got smushed in the PO game against BALT, where noodle arm, threw 4 INTs.


I disagree. You can only play who is on the schedule. Yes, the schedule wasn't hard, but they won 11 games and won the division. I know, no Brady either. That 09 (10-6) NE team with Brady (that got blown out by Bal in the playoffs) was so much better than the 11-5 team that missed the playoffs. :sarcon:

The 08 season may not be much to brag about, but it is more legitimate than the Jets 09 season.
 
'08 Miami had a point differential of 28 pts against that creampuff sched
'09 NYJ had a point differential of 112

even if '08 Bal had beaten the Jets(would have ben tough w/ Rex the HC of one team and the DC for another) it would have been competitive, if it was a close game they still would have proved they belonged.
 
zzz-1.jpg

How very ironic of you...
 
'08 Miami had a point differential of 28 pts against that creampuff sched
'09 NYJ had a point differential of 112

even if '08 Bal had beaten the Jets(would have ben tough w/ Rex the HC of one team and the DC for another) it would have been competitive, if it was a close game they still would have proved they belonged.

:lol: The 98 points that came from beating Oak (5-11), TB (3-13), and Cincy (a team that had already packed it in) doesn't skew the point differential stat for the entire season just a little? It doesn't really matter to me if you blow a team out or win by a FG. The most important thing is the win. While the Dolphins were beating the bad teams on their schedule, the Jets were losing to them. Put the Colts game towards the beginning of the Jets season (when the Colts had a reason to play) and anyone of the Atl, Jax, Mia x2, or Buff games (considered bad teams by most) towards the end of the season, and the Jets don't make the playoffs. It is as simple as that. Just because the Colts let them in, and they didn't have to face BAl in the WC round doesn't mean much to me.
 
:lol: The 98 points that came from beating Oak (5-11), TB (3-13), and Cincy (a team that had already packed it in) doesn't skew the point differential stat for the entire season just a little? It doesn't really matter to me if you blow a team out or win by a FG. The most important thing is the win. While the Dolphins were beating the bad teams on their schedule, the Jets were losing to them. Put the Colts game towards the beginning of the Jets season (when the Colts had a reason to play) and anyone of the Atl, Jax, Mia x2, or Buff games (considered bad teams by most) towards the end of the season, and the Jets don't make the playoffs. It is as simple as that. Just because the Colts let them in, and they didn't have to face BAl in the WC round doesn't mean much to me.

so it's better to toy around w/ those bad teams? Miami beat 2-14 KC, 2-14 SL, 5-11 Oak, 4-12 Seattle by a COMBINED 15 points.

The most important thing is the win but Miami was beating mostly bad teams in close games, they beat ONE playoff bound team and that team was 8-8. They didn't beat an over .500 playoff bound team.

The Buf game and Atl games were towards the end of the season and had we played Miami towards the end of the season we would have beaten them. Maybe you wouldn't have had 3 non offensive TDs to squeak by us again?

Miami had a chance to play Indy at HOME and lost, Miami had a chance to beat Hou at HOME, we whipped them on the road. Miami had a chance to beat Ten, we beat Ten.

common games:

NE twice. both went 1-1
Buf twice both went 1-1
NO both lost
Indy Jets 1-1, Miami 0-1
Atl both lost
SD(Jets faced them in playoffs) Jets 1-0, Mia 0-1
TB both 1-0
Car both 1-0
Jax Jets 0-1, Mia 1-0
Hou Jets 1-0, Mia 0-1

NYJ 7-6(including 2 road playoff games)
Mia 5-7
 
wow 5 consecutive winning seasons in the mighty NFC Central/North. Pretty impressive.

1992-1999 postseason: 9-5 record, 3 NFC title games, 2 SB apps, 1 SB win
2000-2005 w/ Sherman: 2-4 record, lost first ever playoff game at Lambeau(had so much fun they did it twice), never made it past div rd.
2006-2011: 5-3, 2 NFC title game apps, 1 SB app, 1 SB title

3 years since Rex left the Jets made 2 title games and Bal 1.

But Philbin is the HC and he did work with Rogers and he did win a SB so What's your point, if the NFL is "show me what you've done lately type league" Sanchez and Rexy will be looking for a job next year.
What happened to the Jets last season was embarrassing and now you have Sporano............
 
But Philbin is the HC and he did work with Rogers and he did win a SB so What's your point, if the NFL is "show me what you've done lately type league" Sanchez and Rexy will be looking for a job next year.
What happened to the Jets last season was embarrassing and now you have Sporano............

Isn't it amazing how we had an embarrassing season at 8-8 which would be better than 6 of Miami's last 8 seasons
 
Isn't it amazing how we had an embarrassing season at 8-8 which would be better than 6 of Miami's last 8 seasons

It's even more amazing about bragging about winning 2 playoff games (would that be 3X now in club history including that pre-merger, diluted AFL talent 2 game post season farce of a Superbowl? ) and laughingly trying to laud it over a fanbase whose team actually played in 5 legitimate modern era SBs. But go ahead, with what little your franchise has to be proud of I guess you really deserve to give yourself an attaboy for losing 2 championship games (although one post season was a gift to begin with). Being thankful for small things is a blessing :up:
 
Here's my two cents on Sanchez versus Tannehille:

They're not a good comparison. They're not similar players. I'm not even talking about which will be better than the other, etc. I'm talking about style/story based comparison, it just doesn't fit.

Mark Sanchez was a prospect that, when you really looked at it, only had barely above average physical weapons for the position. We're talking things like height, build, foot speed, arm strength, release speed, accuracy, handling of pressure, power, etc. These are the more TANGIBLE tools a quarterback has to work with and Sanchez' package of physical tools was really only average to above average. He's only 6'2", the arm strength is pretty good but nothing to write home about. The accuracy was never special. His mechanics and release speed were not necessarily super quick. He does not have foot speed going especially in his favor nor was he uncanny at making big plays happen off pressure. His physical build and strength are not really a weapon.

What made Sanchez the story he was, was the INTANGIBLES. He's a winner, he's a leader, he knows how to operate an offense, he's mentally strong, great in the crunch, etc. All those intangible things that can only be indirectly observed or measured through things like wins or stats, he was supposed to have that stuff coming out his ears. Steve Young boldly declares that if all the quarterbacks in the Draft were on a bus together, Mark Sanchez would be the driver of that bus. He states that the only reason Sanchez isn't the top quarterback in the Draft is because scouts don't know what to look for in quarterbacks and they're always falling in love with tangibles and not really looking at what makes a quarterback successful.

Forget what Sanchez has since become. We're talking about what he WAS when he came out. I personally didn't buy his story, but that's irrelevant.

Prospect Mark Sanchez = Great Intangibles + Average Tangibles

Fast forward to Ryan Tannehill. We don't know what Ryan Tannehill WILL become. He could become as opposeite his Prospect status as Sanchez is opposite to his own. Who knows. But one thing that is widely agreed upon right now is that Ryan Tannehill has a boat load of TANGIBLES, but questionable/average INTANGIBLES. Look at his tangibles. He's 6'4" and around 225 lbs, probably 230 lbs at the start of the season. Pretty much ideal build. Taller and scouts start wondering how mobile you are. Shorter and scouts start getting nervous about batted passes and how well you see the field from inside the pocket. His arm strength is a weapon, really rockets in some passes especially comebacks off opposite hash at the college level (wider hash marks = even greater distance) which is kind of rare. Has an uncanny ability to make big plays off pressure, really accurate throwing the football on the run. Quickest release in the Draft, among those I timed. Has 4.5 speed and used to be his team's leading wide receiver, knows how to run with the ball in his hands. We're talking about a guy with a ton of physical, tangible tools and weapons at his disposal.

On the other hand, he's supposed to be a guy that has average or questionable intangibles. He's smart but that doesn't mean he's got great intangibles. Nobody that meets or interviews with him is coming away bragging about he's the driver of whatever bus he's riding on, etc. Regardless of how much that matters, if at all, it's true if you're being honest with yourself. He doesn't come off super mature like Luck, Weeden or Russell Wilson. He lost 6 games in 2011 and gets killed for it by evaluators and media. When you look closely to weed out the bull sh-t, he was about 50/50 at best in those really clutch, high pressure, do-or-die situations. He's not by any means a BAD character, nor is he a weak person, nor would I say he lacks confidence. "Average" does not = bad. Just saying the story right now is one of a guy with "average" intangibles. In other words:

Prospect Mark Sanchez = Great Intangibles + Average Tangibles
Prospct Ryan Tannehill = Average Intangibles + Great Tangibles

Total diametric opposites.

The better comparison for Tannehill is Jake Locker. Even though Locker was a four year starter Locker came out raw as an onion. While Tannehill is not nearly as raw in his mechanics, there are still some aspects of his game where his lack of starts really shows. Locker also boasted 4.5 speed. Both quarterbacks were beset by losses due in large part to bad teams around them. In Tannehill's case, his defense couldn't stop anyone. Both players have this uncanny ability and knack for making big and accurate throws, big plays on the run and when pressured.

That said, I think Ryan Tannehill is a much better prospect than Jake Locker. Much more accurate, much quicker learner.
 
It's even more amazing about bragging about winning 2 playoff games (would that be 3X now in club history including that pre-merger, diluted AFL talent 2 game post season farce of a Superbowl? ) and laughingly trying to laud it over a fanbase whose team actually played in 5 legitimate modern era SBs. But go ahead, with what little your franchise has to be proud of I guess you really deserve to give yourself an attaboy for losing 2 championship games (although one post season was a gift to begin with). Being thankful for small things is a blessing :up:

1971, 1972, 1973, 1982 & 1984 were a LONG time ago. I am in my late 30s now and I wasn't alive for the first 3 and wasn't even in double digits for the last 2 so brag all you want about those but the reality is Miami is working on almost 20 years since their last title game app(this season will be the 20th anniversary) and 12 years since your last playoff win. You make fun of us for going 8-8 which is better than most dolphin seasons over the last decade, you make fun of the title game apps but it is further than Miami has made it since 1992. Our 4 playoff wins in the last 3 seasons are more than Miami 1995-present.
 
Here's my two cents on Sanchez versus Tannehille:

They're not a good comparison. They're not similar players. I'm not even talking about which will be better than the other, etc. I'm talking about style/story based comparison, it just doesn't fit.

Mark Sanchez was a prospect that, when you really looked at it, only had barely above average physical weapons for the position. We're talking things like height, build, foot speed, arm strength, release speed, accuracy, handling of pressure, power, etc. These are the more TANGIBLE tools a quarterback has to work with and Sanchez' package of physical tools was really only average to above average. He's only 6'2", the arm strength is pretty good but nothing to write home about. The accuracy was never special. His mechanics and release speed were not necessarily super quick. He does not have foot speed going especially in his favor nor was he uncanny at making big plays happen off pressure. His physical build and strength are not really a weapon.

What made Sanchez the story he was, was the INTANGIBLES. He's a winner, he's a leader, he knows how to operate an offense, he's mentally strong, great in the crunch, etc. All those intangible things that can only be indirectly observed or measured through things like wins or stats, he was supposed to have that stuff coming out his ears. Steve Young boldly declares that if all the quarterbacks in the Draft were on a bus together, Mark Sanchez would be the driver of that bus. He states that the only reason Sanchez isn't the top quarterback in the Draft is because scouts don't know what to look for in quarterbacks and they're always falling in love with tangibles and not really looking at what makes a quarterback successful.

Forget what Sanchez has since become. We're talking about what he WAS when he came out. I personally didn't buy his story, but that's irrelevant.

Prospect Mark Sanchez = Great Intangibles + Average Tangibles

Fast forward to Ryan Tannehill. We don't know what Ryan Tannehill WILL become. He could become as opposeite his Prospect status as Sanchez is opposite to his own. Who knows. But one thing that is widely agreed upon right now is that Ryan Tannehill has a boat load of TANGIBLES, but questionable/average INTANGIBLES. Look at his tangibles. He's 6'4" and around 225 lbs, probably 230 lbs at the start of the season. Pretty much ideal build. Taller and scouts start wondering how mobile you are. Shorter and scouts start getting nervous about batted passes and how well you see the field from inside the pocket. His arm strength is a weapon, really rockets in some passes especially comebacks off opposite hash at the college level (wider hash marks = even greater distance) which is kind of rare. Has an uncanny ability to make big plays off pressure, really accurate throwing the football on the run. Quickest release in the Draft, among those I timed. Has 4.5 speed and used to be his team's leading wide receiver, knows how to run with the ball in his hands. We're talking about a guy with a ton of physical, tangible tools and weapons at his disposal.

On the other hand, he's supposed to be a guy that has average or questionable intangibles. He's smart but that doesn't mean he's got great intangibles. Nobody that meets or interviews with him is coming away bragging about he's the driver of whatever bus he's riding on, etc. Regardless of how much that matters, if at all, it's true if you're being honest with yourself. He doesn't come off super mature like Luck, Weeden or Russell Wilson. He lost 6 games in 2011 and gets killed for it by evaluators and media. When you look closely to weed out the bull sh-t, he was about 50/50 at best in those really clutch, high pressure, do-or-die situations. He's not by any means a BAD character, nor is he a weak person, nor would I say he lacks confidence. "Average" does not = bad. Just saying the story right now is one of a guy with "average" intangibles. In other words:

Prospect Mark Sanchez = Great Intangibles + Average Tangibles
Prospct Ryan Tannehill = Average Intangibles + Great Tangibles

Total diametric opposites.

The better comparison for Tannehill is Jake Locker. Even though Locker was a four year starter Locker came out raw as an onion. While Tannehill is not nearly as raw in his mechanics, there are still some aspects of his game where his lack of starts really shows. Locker also boasted 4.5 speed. Both quarterbacks were beset by losses due in large part to bad teams around them. In Tannehill's case, his defense couldn't stop anyone. Both players have this uncanny ability and knack for making big and accurate throws, big plays on the run and when pressured.

That said, I think Ryan Tannehill is a much better prospect than Jake Locker. Much more accurate, much quicker learner.

I think this is fair for the most part, I do think he had better physical tools than you give him credit for but he obviously wasn't an Andrew Luck physically as a prospect.

What did you think of the Jets draft?
 
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