Tannehill and Sanchez, too little experience?

[luduporcu]

haha.

we'll see what Tannehill can do. I am happy w/ my QB situation and hopefully you guys are happy too.

SANCHEZ just doesn't have any consistency. He'll look great winning a couple of playoff games, then absolutely blow Moosec*ck and fail. He couldn't reach the SB during the years that many of the JETS' "win now" vets were still young enough to do so. But the JETS window is closing: Father Time comes for EVERYONE sooner or later. LT has already become a shell of what he was, and he's not alone.

A while back, I posted that if the JETS had had the 2011 version of M MOORE instead of SANCHEZ, I wouldn't have minded having the JETS to win the SB in the "office pool". I meant it, then and now. If the JETS had a QB who could earn a 12th best NFL QB rating while having to deal w/no preseason worth mentioning, and (a) back-up's "reps" until HENNE went down; (b) an unready HC; and (c) the COLUMBO-CAREY farce protecting (ha!) his right side, then I really feel that the JETS JUST MIGHT have gone to a SB or 2, and even won one. No more: and it's a shame. Because I remember when the JETS team and organization were pure "class": I even still have my bright-white painted yacht sneakers ( I was poor back then), and my #12 jersey. I remember when they didn't even bitch/say a single word about being deprived of the privilege to go on and win SB IV instead of KC, all because a "Zebra" screwed up bigtime and everyone in America saw it (a play that was the "poster boy" for the video replay/challenge we have today). But ever since SONNY WERBLIN and WEEB EWBANK left, it has been strictly downhill and gauche for the Green Nation. HESS OIL? F*ck them, mightily!!!!!!!!!! Ditto, everyone since, including the "Fat Man". I remember what was.

 

[Vaark]

Hey CK where've you been? Canoodling with Olivia? :up: You know it's one thing to harbor an insulated sense of confidence based on being the gearshift of a successful, dominant program where 10 other teammates were drafted that season, including 4 in the top 56.

IMO, "intangibles" are confirmed when they're instrumental in overcoming hardships and obstacles, not when the train is steamrolling down the track. Sorry, but when challenging times, which may manifest themselves as crapping the bed with poor decisions in crunch times, moping by yourself, or sulking on the verge of tears at the end of the bench, by dint of word and deed losing the confidence and respect of your key supporting players, projecting if not an effeminate than a metrosexual kind of aura, etc. , IMO you can throw those nebulous former "intangibles" right out the window. It's a whole new ballgame as they don't necessarily carry over to Prime Time.

"Mental toughness is to physical what four is to 1" - Bobby Knight

 

[Awsi Dooger]

This again. In my year+ absence from this site I'd almost forgotten what the squabbles could turn into.

Bottom line, Dolphin fans have zero ammo considering the pathetic frothing obsession that the Jets games have turned into, and the way Miami pathetically lays down on the field a week later. It's now 11 consecutive defeats in the game following the Jets, and a combined margin of -148 points. We haven't succeeded the week after facing the Jets since year one of the Saban era.

In terms of Sanchez vs. Tannehill, both sat for three years in college. That's never ideal, from my perspective. Early brilliance was absent. Coaches had options and they chose otherwise. Sanchez redshirting behind Leinart was a no brainer but he couldn't oust a moderate talent like John David Booty the following two seasons. Tannehill's journey is well chronicled around here; becoming the starter at quarterback in the middle of his fourth season after arriving at Texas A&M.

Jeff Ireland has always provided hints that he doesn't care about early evaluation as much as a cram job in the late going. I think he'll continue to err with that type of standard approach, like someone desperately Googling to keep up in a conversation in which they are otherwise outmatched.

Even with the local guy Olivier Vernon, Ireland conceded he didn't know much about him until the Canes' Pro Day, which was less than two months ago. Seriously? And I'm supposed to have faith in a general manager unaware of a talented prospect who was playing in the same building? Vernon flashed as a true freshman in 2009, with plenty of action including starting the bowl game against Wisconsin. I watched Warren Sapp stand alongside Vernon for the entirety of the 2010 spring game and give pointers on the sideline. Sapp had obviously pinpointed Vernon as a special talent, someone who could make the most of his expertise. Vernon started throughout 2010. And Jeff Ireland discovers him in early March 2012. Tally ho.

Anyway, Mark Sanchez has a flat trajectory and not much creative ability, only modestly above Chad Henne in that regard. He's a confident dart thrower when the defense is off guard and the window is wide enough. In other words, Sanchez needs a running game, worn out defense, and viable play action. If he's asked to throw 400 times per season the Jets have a chance. In the 500+ range like the past two seasons, it's unlikely to work out. Sanchez fits the old NFL more than Tutu Goodell's version.

Tannehill does more things well. None of the recent comparisons I've seen are ideal. Tannehill reminds me somewhat of Danny White, who was a very good athlete -- punted also -- but never seemed to fully unleash, whether it was on the field or in his relationships with players or media. Overly reserved. Of course, I'd take the W/L record that White had, but he was backed by an excellent supporting cast.

 

[The New Guy]

so it's better to toy around w/ those bad teams? Miami beat 2-14 KC, 2-14 SL, 5-11 Oak, 4-12 Seattle by a COMBINED 15 points.

No, it is better to beat bad teams than lose to bad teams. Miami's worst loss in 08 was to an 8-8 Houston team that they never seem to be able to beat. The 09 Jets lost to 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax. Blowing out a couple of bad teams along the way doesn't make up for those bad losses.

The most important thing is the win but Miami was beating mostly bad teams in close games, they beat ONE playoff bound team and that team was 8-8. They didn't beat an over .500 playoff bound team.

I don't like the playoff bound argument since good teams can miss out on the playoffs. The 09 Jets faced 4 teams above .500 in 09 before facing Indy and Cincy (who had no desire to win) The 08 Dolphins faced 4 teams above .500. The difference is the Jets lost 6 of 7, and lost to a bunch of bad / mediocre teams. The Dolphins won their games against bad teams and went 11-5 and won the division. Also, that 8-8 playoff team the Dolphins beat (the one without the winning record) moved on to the divisional round while that 10-6 playoff team the Jets beat early in the year got stomped 33 to 14 by Bal in the WC round.

The Buf game and Atl games were towards the end of the season and had we played Miami towards the end of the season we would have beaten them. Maybe you wouldn't have had 3 non offensive TDs to squeak by us again?

That is my point. When they had their legitimate chance to earn their spot by beating Atl late in the year, they lost. I don't think the Jets facing Miami later would have made a difference for the Jets. It sure didn't this past year.

Miami had a chance to play Indy at HOME and lost, Miami had a chance to beat Hou at HOME, we whipped them on the road. Miami had a chance to beat Ten, we beat Ten.

common games:

NE twice. both went 1-1
Buf twice both went 1-1
NO both lost
Indy Jets 1-1, Miami 0-1
Atl both lost
SD(Jets faced them in playoffs) Jets 1-0, Mia 0-1
TB both 1-0
Car both 1-0
Jax Jets 0-1, Mia 1-0
Hou Jets 1-0, Mia 0-1

NYJ 7-6(including 2 road playoff games)
Mia 5-7

I thought we were talking about the Dolphins 08 season compared to the Jets 09 season? I will not argue that the 09 Dolphins had a better year than the 09 Jets. Not by a lot though. The Dolphins having to face the Colts in week 3 is a little different than facing them when they have nothing to play for and rest their starters, don't you think?

So the difference between the Jets 09 season and the Dolphins 7-9 season was the Jets having the fortune of Indy giving them a game and a win against Houston. Sounds about right to me. :up:

 

[jason_taylor]

Why would you start a thread comparing Tannehill to Sanchez?? Have we not learned our lesson with Henne/Sanchez?

imo there going to have enough problems with cheesey and Tebow lmao

 

[nyjunc]

No, it is better to beat bad teams than lose to bad teams. Miami's worst loss in 08 was to an 8-8 Houston team that they never seem to be able to beat. The 09 Jets lost to 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax. Blowing out a couple of bad teams along the way doesn't make up for those bad losses.



I don't like the playoff bound argument since good teams can miss out on the playoffs. The 09 Jets faced 4 teams above .500 in 09 before facing Indy and Cincy (who had no desire to win) The 08 Dolphins faced 4 teams above .500. The difference is the Jets lost 6 of 7, and lost to a bunch of bad / mediocre teams. The Dolphins won their games against bad teams and went 11-5 and won the division. Also, that 8-8 playoff team the Dolphins beat (the one without the winning record) moved on to the divisional round while that 10-6 playoff team the Jets beat early in the year got stomped 33 to 14 by Bal in the WC round.





That is my point. When they had their legitimate chance to earn their spot by beating Atl late in the year, they lost. I don't think the Jets facing Miami later would have made a difference for the Jets. It sure didn't this past year.




I thought we were talking about the Dolphins 08 season compared to the Jets 09 season? I will not argue that the 09 Dolphins had a better year than the 09 Jets. Not by a lot though. The Dolphins having to face the Colts in week 3 is a little different than facing them when they have nothing to play for and rest their starters, don't you think?

So the difference between the Jets 09 season and the Dolphins 7-9 season was the Jets having the fortune of Indy giving them a game and a win against Houston. Sounds about right to me. :up:

The Jets lost to 6-10 Buf b/c rookie QB threw 5 INTs, it happens. The jets beat more good teams which put them in playoff position. 11 wins in 2008 is the equivalent of 8-9 in 2009. The competition was better, there were less bad teams in 2009 so teams had inflated recrods. Our '09 9-7 was MUCH better than our '08 9-7.

What good team missed out on the playoffs that Miami beat? Matt Cassell led NE? NO. who else?

The difference is the last 6 weeks Miami faced all dead teams w/ the exception of SF who, while not dead, was not very good.

Last year the Jets were a dead team in week 17, the Jets lost by 3 to Atl and it jumpstarted their run. They wouldn't lose again until the title game.

You do realize Cincy played their starters for a half and traiiled 27-0, right? they could have brought back the '88 Bengals and the Jets would have beaten them that night. We got a break w/ a qtr and a half of Indy backups. Miami had the break of finishing '09 w/ 3 non playoff bound teams w/ 2 of the games at home and they lost all 3.

in week 3 the dolphins had the Colts at HOME, the Jets faced them on the road- BIG difference. Just like having to go to NO while Miami played the Saints at home.


'08 Miami beat ONE playoff bound team, a team that ended up 8-8 and was in the middle of a 3-5 first half of the season. That's really all we need to know- that and they were throttled at home in the WC rd while the '09 Jets won 2 ROAD playoff games.

 

[ckparrothead]

I think this is fair for the most part, I do think he had better physical tools than you give him credit for but he obviously wasn't an Andrew Luck physically as a prospect.

What did you think of the Jets draft?

Jets draft started out strong with Quinton Coples and Stephen Hill right off the bat, both players I liked a lot. From there, it kind of tapered off into a so-so draft.

 

[McGaniel]

Tannehill and Snacheez are 2 totally different players. Ryan will be able to carry a team on his physical and mental abilities alone, Sanchez's physical and mental abilities are average and he will always be an average NFL QB at best. Mark also lacks a major passion for the game and is lazy hence the Tebow signing to push him, Ryan loves and lives for the game which is not easy to find..

Bottom line is that Ryan has ALL the tools that you need to be great, Sancheez doesn't even come close. I've met him twice and he is a really nice guy and cares for his community but as a football player he is soft, i mean his teammates even question his desire to play, now that's bad...

 

[DuderinoN703]

1971, 1972, 1973, 1982 & 1984 were a LONG time ago. I am in my late 30s now and I wasn't alive for the first 3 and wasn't even in double digits for the last 2 so brag all you want about those but the reality is Miami is working on almost 20 years since their last title game app(this season will be the 20th anniversary) and 12 years since your last playoff win. You make fun of us for going 8-8 which is better than most dolphin seasons over the last decade, you make fun of the title game apps but it is further than Miami has made it since 1992. Our 4 playoff wins in the last 3 seasons are more than Miami 1995-present.

All 100% true and is why I don't get why these conversations last for pages. The Jets have been better than the Dolphins in recent history. They haven't won any Super Bowls obviously but they've gotten closer. These are facts and are obvious to the posters here.

Yet the denial continues from many.

 

[DisturbedShifty]

All 100% true and is why I don't get why these conversations last for pages. The Jets have been better than the Dolphins in recent history. They haven't won any Super Bowls obviously but they've gotten closer. These are facts and are obvious to the posters here.

Yet the denial continues from many.

The problem is, those almost Super Bowl appearances are flaunted like they are Super Bowl wins. Yes the Jets have had great success in the playoff in recent years. But until they are turned into rings they are nothing more than stats.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[nyjunc]

The problem is, those almost Super Bowl appearances are flaunted like they are Super Bowl wins. Yes the Jets have had great success in the playoff in recent years. But until they are turned into rings they are nothing more than stats.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

compared to zero playoff wins since 2001 it may seem like they are flaunted but I undrestand this team has to win 2 more games.

 

[The New Guy]

The Jets lost to 6-10 Buf b/c rookie QB threw 5 INTs, it happens. The jets beat more good teams which put them in playoff position. 11 wins in 2008 is the equivalent of 8-9 in 2009. The competition was better, there were less bad teams in 2009 so teams had inflated recrods. Our '09 9-7 was MUCH better than our '08 9-7.

I'm not interested in the reasoning of why the Jets lost to those bad teams. The point is Miami beat every bad team on their 08 schedule while the Jets lost to several in 09. You can't complain about the competition being better in 09 when they couldn't beat the bad teams they had on their schedule. If they handled their business against any one of 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax and 6-7 (at the time) ATl, then we wouldn't be talking about Indy giving them a much needed win to make the playoffs.

Miami only lost to Hou, AZ, Bal, NYJ, and NE that year. Not 1 team with a losing record.

What good team missed out on the playoffs that Miami beat? Matt Cassell led NE? NO. who else?

What good teams did the 09 Jets beat? 9-7 Houston in week 1? (No playoffs) 10-6 NE in week 2 when Brady was coming off a serious knee injury? (Humiliated by Bal in the WC round) 9-7 Tennessee in week 3? (No playoffs) That's it. From there on out, they lost to a bunch of bad teams and won a few games against bad / average teams before Indy and Cincy took a knee to let them in the playoffs.

The Dolphins beating 11-5 NE, 9-7 Jets, 8-8 Den, and 8-8 SD are all comparable to the Jets wins.

The difference is the last 6 weeks Miami faced all dead teams w/ the exception of SF who, while not dead, was not very good.

Teams included in the last 6 weeks of the Dolphins schedule were 11-5 NE, 9-7 NYJ and 7-9 Buff. They lost to NE but beat everyone else. How is the Jets beating 8-8 Car, 7-9 Buff, 3-13 TB, and losing to Atl before 2 teams took a knee anymore impressive? Especially when they won a total of 9 games with the 2 gimmes.

Last year the Jets were a dead team in week 17, the Jets lost by 3 to Atl and it jumpstarted their run. They wouldn't lose again until the title game.

Losing to Atl jumpstarted their run. That was when Rex declared them mathematically eliminated from the playoff race right? That was also the last game they played agasint a team that would actually game plan and play with a desire to win right?

You do realize Cincy played their starters for a half and traiiled 27-0, right? they could have brought back the '88 Bengals and the Jets would have beaten them that night. We got a break w/ a qtr and a half of Indy backups. Miami had the break of finishing '09 w/ 3 non playoff bound teams w/ 2 of the games at home and they lost all 3.

I also realize that Cincy knew they would be facing the Jets the very next week in the playoffs, so they didn't want to show much and the #1 goal was not to win the game, but to not get injured.

Again, I am not comparing the 09 Dolphins to the 09 Jets. Miami blew it in 09. Although, I wouldn't consider Houston, Tennessee, and Pittsburgh cakewalks to end the season. The Jets didn't have to play Pitt in 09. The Jets played Ten in week 3 when Kerry Collins was the QB. (15 of 37 for 170 yards 1 TD and 2 Ints) Miami played them when Vince Young was the QB. (14 of 27 for 236 yards 3 Tds and 1 Int) I'm not making excuses, but little things like that make a difference in close games.


I've said this a million times; it is very different when you face a good team that rest their starters and have no desire to win than it is to face bad teams with nothing to lose. No one wants to face those teams that want to play spoiler. Give me the good teams that have everything wrapped up, who will rest their starters and have no desire to win.

It is crazy that the Jets couldn't beat 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax and 6-7 (at the time) ATl, but managed to beat a team that was undefeated at the time. The same team that beat them up pretty good in the AFCC game a couple weeks later. :idk: I guess it was that loss to Atl that really turned things around for them.

in week 3 the dolphins had the Colts at HOME, the Jets faced them on the road- BIG difference. Just like having to go to NO while Miami played the Saints at home.

So you would rather the Jets play at home against Indy in week 3 than to play them on the road in week 16 when they had everything wrapped up and would rest the starters with no desire to win? That is a crazy statement. If that had happened, the Jets wouldn't have made the playoffs.

'08 Miami beat ONE playoff bound team, a team that ended up 8-8 and was in the middle of a 3-5 first half of the season. That's really all we need to know- that and they were throttled at home in the WC rd while the '09 Jets won 2 ROAD playoff games.

The 09 NYJ legitimately beat ONE playoff bound team in week 3 who had a QB coming off a serious knee injury. That same 10-6 NE team lost to 7-9 Miami and 8-8 Den and got blown out by Bal in the WC round. The Jets were fortunate they were let in the playoffs and then faced a dead team walking in Cincy and then a team whose kicker would miss 3 FGs in a 3 point loss.

We will never agree on this, so it is ok to agree to disagree.

 

[Vaark]

In game 14 in 09, the only legitimate game the Jets needed to win to stay in the hunt without a backdoor playoff free pass was Atlanta at home. A win and they would have gone into game 15 8-6 instead of a mediocre 7-7. And typically, Sanchez threw 3 interceptions with a 49.7QBR. Considering the Falcons were already eliminated from postseason contention, for all intents and purposes they were also a "dead team walking" who were ripe for the taking by a decent team.

 

[nyjunc]

I'm not interested in the reasoning of why the Jets lost to those bad teams. The point is Miami beat every bad team on their 08 schedule while the Jets lost to several in 09. You can't complain about the competition being better in 09 when they couldn't beat the bad teams they had on their schedule. If they handled their business against any one of 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax and 6-7 (at the time) ATl, then we wouldn't be talking about Indy giving them a much needed win to make the playoffs.

Miami only lost to Hou, AZ, Bal, NYJ, and NE that year. Not 1 team with a losing record.




What good teams did the 09 Jets beat? 9-7 Houston in week 1? (No playoffs) 10-6 NE in week 2 when Brady was coming off a serious knee injury? (Humiliated by Bal in the WC round) 9-7 Tennessee in week 3? (No playoffs) That's it. From there on out, they lost to a bunch of bad teams and won a few games against bad / average teams before Indy and Cincy took a knee to let them in the playoffs.

The Dolphins beating 11-5 NE, 9-7 Jets, 8-8 Den, and 8-8 SD are all comparable to the Jets wins.



Teams included in the last 6 weeks of the Dolphins schedule were 11-5 NE, 9-7 NYJ and 7-9 Buff. They lost to NE but beat everyone else. How is the Jets beating 8-8 Car, 7-9 Buff, 3-13 TB, and losing to Atl before 2 teams took a knee anymore impressive? Especially when they won a total of 9 games with the 2 gimmes.



Losing to Atl jumpstarted their run. That was when Rex declared them mathematically eliminated from the playoff race right? That was also the last game they played agasint a team that would actually game plan and play with a desire to win right?



I also realize that Cincy knew they would be facing the Jets the very next week in the playoffs, so they didn't want to show much and the #1 goal was not to win the game, but to not get injured.

Again, I am not comparing the 09 Dolphins to the 09 Jets. Miami blew it in 09. Although, I wouldn't consider Houston, Tennessee, and Pittsburgh cakewalks to end the season. The Jets didn't have to play Pitt in 09. The Jets played Ten in week 3 when Kerry Collins was the QB. (15 of 37 for 170 yards 1 TD and 2 Ints) Miami played them when Vince Young was the QB. (14 of 27 for 236 yards 3 Tds and 1 Int) I'm not making excuses, but little things like that make a difference in close games.


I've said this a million times; it is very different when you face a good team that rest their starters and have no desire to win than it is to face bad teams with nothing to lose. No one wants to face those teams that want to play spoiler. Give me the good teams that have everything wrapped up, who will rest their starters and have no desire to win.

It is crazy that the Jets couldn't beat 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax and 6-7 (at the time) ATl, but managed to beat a team that was undefeated at the time. The same team that beat them up pretty good in the AFCC game a couple weeks later. :idk: I guess it was that loss to Atl that really turned things around for them.




So you would rather the Jets play at home against Indy in week 3 than to play them on the road in week 16 when they had everything wrapped up and would rest the starters with no desire to win? That is a crazy statement. If that had happened, the Jets wouldn't have made the playoffs.




The 09 NYJ legitimately beat ONE playoff bound team in week 3 who had a QB coming off a serious knee injury. That same 10-6 NE team lost to 7-9 Miami and 8-8 Den and got blown out by Bal in the WC round. The Jets were fortunate they were let in the playoffs and then faced a dead team walking in Cincy and then a team whose kicker would miss 3 FGs in a 3 point loss.

We will never agree on this, so it is ok to agree to disagree.

They did and they deserve credit for taking care of business but once in January where the competition level goes up they proved they didn't belong.

The Jets had a rookie QB and rookie HC, it wasn't always smooth but by the end of the year they were a top team. They could have taken care of business against Mia, jax or Buf but they didn't and when given a new life they took advantage like tennessee did in 2007 where no one complained.

not one team w/ a losing record but not one great team w/ the possible exception of baltimore.


we beat NE, we beat Cincy, we beat SD. use the Brady excuse all you want but NE lost only 2 times in the first half of the season and the other one was in OT. Ten or Hou would have been playoff teams had they beat the Jets


11-5 NE in 2008 wasn't anywhere near NE in 2009, 8-8 Den and 8-8 SD were mediocre teams as their record reflects.

sorry last 5 weeks:

2-14 SL, losers of their last 10 games
7-9 Buf, losers of 8 of 10
2-14 KC losers of 11 of 12
9-7 NYJ losers of 4 of 5

The only decent team you pklayed was SF who were winning 4 of their last 5.

The Jets late season wasn't more impressive but again once in postseason the Jets won TWO ROAD playoff games, they weren't humiliated at HOME in the WC rd.

It did, the Jets went on a run after the Atl game where they wouldn't lose again until the title game.


what happened the very next week AT Cincy?

You are crowing over facing Vince Young over Kerry Collins? Ten was 13-3 w/ Kerry the year before.


beat them up pretty goopd in the title game? really? it was a 3 pt game w/ under 10 mins to play, the Jets held a lead in the 3rd qtr. This wasn't a Miami playoff thrashing.

Yes I would rather play Indy and NO at home than when we faced them on the road. We would have at least split w/ those two at home.

One above .500 playoff bound team was better than zero for '08 Miami, right? and 2 actual playoff teams in the playoffs is better than zero, right?


Kaeding missed a near 60 yarder so he missed 2 makeable FGs and the game changed when he missed them, the game likely never becomes a 3 pt game if he had made those earlier kicks so it's not fair to say they lost by 3 and missed 3 kicks. You have to look at the circumstances which I am sure you are aware but won't discuss in a thread like this.

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

In game 14 in 09, the only legitimate game the Jets needed to win to stay in the hunt without a backdoor playoff free pass was Atlanta at home. A win and they would have gone into game 15 8-6 instead of a mediocre 7-7. And typically, Sanchez threw 3 interceptions with a 49.7QBR. Considering the Falcons were already eliminated from postseason contention, for all intents and purposes they were also a "dead team walking" who were ripe for the taking by a decent team.

 

[Vaark]