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Tannehill vs Texas on ESPNU now

He said nothing wrong, there was absolutely nothing in his post that said anything in-factual, the only person I've seen saying something wrong is you, you try to tell CK what he thinks you were proven wrong.

Flacco and Newton both have less than 20 starts and they're holding up just fine, Tom Brady had to share his senior season snaps, and with great coaching Brady turned into a Hall Of Famer. With great coaching, any QB that is hard-working and has the skills will atleast be an above average QB in this league. Tannehill has worked with Sherman his whole collegiate career, so he knows everything they needed to know about him. I trust Ireland, Philbin, Ross, and Sherman more than I trust a poster on this site.

What? No. I made the point that Tannehill had a bad game against Texas and the game was a paramount reason for why I didn't like him. Not even close to the only reason why I didnt like Tannehill, but a big reason. Weeden, RG3 and Landry Jones all tore up Texas. What did I say that was untrue?
 
What? No. I made the point that Tannehill had a bad game against Texas and the game was a paramount reason for why I didn't like him. Not even close to the only reason why I didnt like Tannehill, but a big reason. Weeden, RG3 and Landry Jones all tore up Texas. What did I say that was untrue?

Nobody was arguing about Tannehill having a bad game against Texas, CK even agreed that he had a bad game.

You had said that CK liked Weeden before the draft and then all of a sudden he changed his mind and liked Tannehill better, which was completely false, which CK had said.
 
Anyone can argue with me all they want. But I'm not going to argue back unless they're worth my time. It's not hard, just actually be sincere and rational about things. I can tell when someone's just out there to hear themselves talk, putting out all kinds of hyperbole and bold statements so that maybe, just maybe, someone will actually read it and remember what you had to say on a subject. I'm not looking to get into debates about players with people that are intent on winning the internet.
 
OP has lousy manners. OP is also right. His original post:

This was probably the best example of the 3-4 games I pointed to from this past year that illustrate why I don't like this kid. Yes I get it, he's physically gifted. That and 50 cents buys you a bag of chips in the NFL. This game shows pretty well how piss poor his anticipation, ability to read defenses and accuracy from the pocket are. He should have been picked no higher than 30-40 in this draft because he is being picked solely on his physical tools. Hes a complete project.
Whatever, as usual, hoping for the best and expecting the worst!

As always, it's just an opinion. So he didn't like the 'Phins 1st rounder - dear lord, what a novel stance! Personally, the whole "I trust Ireland/Sherman/Philbin more than any poster here" reeks of conventionalism. Opens no room for debate at all. I understand "hope for the best" but why not argue the OP on some tangible points, like CK has already?

And the whole "don't argue with CK" thing... I thought sacred cows belonged to India. Let him destroy the OP with his mighty wit and knowledge if he so wishes (and is able to). I'm all for giving props and CK is one of the best posters around but c'mon...

/preaching
 
Anyone can argue with me all they want. But I'm not going to argue back unless they're worth my time. It's not hard, just actually be sincere and rational about things. I can tell when someone's just out there to hear themselves talk, putting out all kinds of hyperbole and bold statements so that maybe, just maybe, someone will actually read it and remember what you had to say on a subject. I'm not looking to get into debates about players with people that are intent on winning the internet.

Yeah, I don't know what "winning the internet" means. I'm trying to argue that Dolphins fans shouldn't be suddenly championing a QB just because he was a first round pick. The kid has significant flaws that in all reality should've kept him out of the first round.
Not to mention the fact that we shouldn't be trusting the draft choices of the man who helped FURTHER destroy this organization. Again, personally I hope Tannehill becomes the next Tom Brady, but I cannot possibly dismiss everything I have seen as far as his drawbacks go. Hes a workout warrior with a ton of upside, but hes never really shown it on the field against decent competition.
 
OP has lousy manners. OP is also right. His original post:



As always, it's just an opinion. So he didn't like the 'Phins 1st rounder - dear lord, what a novel stance! Personally, the whole "I trust Ireland/Sherman/Philbin more than any poster here" reeks of conventionalism. Opens no room for debate at all. I understand "hope for the best" but why not argue the OP on some tangible points, like CK has already?

And the whole "don't argue with CK" thing... I thought sacred cows belonged to India. Let him destroy the OP with his mighty wit and knowledge if he so wishes (and is able to). I'm all for giving props and CK is one of the best posters around but c'mon...

/preaching

Hes not able to.
 
I also didn't like the pick, thought he was picked way too high and had a lot of holes in his game, but let's see what happens. Hopefully he blossoms into a great Qb for us.
 
Awful logic being displayed by OP to say the least. I'm not much of a Tannehill fan, but trying to say having a bad game against Texas makes you a bad QB prospect makes you look like quite the fool. Brandon Weedem threw 3 picks agains Louisana-Lafayette and 3 more in a loss to Iowa State. Must mean he's not a good QB prospect.
 
Yeah, I don't know what "winning the internet" means. I'm trying to argue that Dolphins fans shouldn't be suddenly championing a QB just because he was a first round pick. The kid has significant flaws that in all reality should've kept him out of the first round.
Not to mention the fact that we shouldn't be trusting the draft choices of the man who helped FURTHER destroy this organization. Again, personally I hope Tannehill becomes the next Tom Brady, but I cannot possibly dismiss everything I have seen as far as his drawbacks go. Hes a workout warrior with a ton of upside, but hes never really shown it on the field against decent competition.

This is an example of a much better way to deliver what you think about a player.

I'm really not sure where the idea comes from, and I know it's not just you, that Ryan Tannehill's skill set dictates a second round pick. The physical skills are all there. He was very productive in a pro style west coast offense, so the productivity is there. Look at the tape and the pocket management is CLEARLY there, as is the unique ability to throw the football with pace and accuracy while running left or right. The intelligence is clearly there with a high wonderlic, pre-med student with a high GPA. The off field intangibles are clearly there, having made the move to wide receiver and essentially pulled double-duty attending all QB meetings and practicing as a QB for every practice until Friday walk-thrus when he would practice as a WR for the first time before playing the game as a WR. Oh and with only one walk-thru practice under his belt as a WR per week, he was the team's leading WR. Not to mention he willingly also took on special teams duties and even insisted on keeping them when he was elevated to starting quarterback in 2010.

People keep talking about a tendency to lose games but I think Joe Philbin said it pretty well when he pointed out that he throws a pick in the second half against Oklahoma State where Jeff Fuller falls to the ground on a timing/anticipation route (150% not Tannehill's fault), he throws the football right between his receiver's numbers for a successful two point conversion in overtime against K-State and the receiver drops it, and as I talked about already he led his team down the field for TWO late 4th quarter scores to bring his team back from a deficit against Texas and put them ahead with 1:42 remaining. He rattled off five straight wins in his first action as a starter. All this is not the mark of a guy that has bad field intangibles.

Texas A&M had somewhere around 69 to 74 drops, depending on what your standard is on a drop. Philbin counted 72 of them. A 'normal' amount of drops would have been about 33 drops. That's going by the average ratio of drops-to-completions in the NFL in 2011. Just going off his own stats, if those receivers drop a 'normal' number of balls instead of 72 of the damn things, he's 366 of 531 for 4191 yards, 32 TDs and 15 INTs, with another 49 runs for 350 yards and 4 TDs. And oh by the way he only was sacked 9 times for 44 yards in losses, and I believe he only lost one fumble.

Stats don't make a guy a good NFL prospect. But they're there. The production, as a record of what he did on the football field, is there. The tangibles, the skill set, the feet, the arm strength, the accuracy, the mechanics, the quick delivery, the foot speed and athleticism, the size, strength, pocket management and throwing on the run are all THERE. The intangibles, the work ethic, the learning curve, the willingness to be unselfish, to be a leader, the intelligence, those are also there.

So tell me, when has that package ever NOT gone in the first round? Because I can damn well point out some instances, including three from a year ago, where guys that didn't have that package still went in the first round, even high in the first round.
 
I am putting my money on Ireland is right because his butt is on the line with Ryann Tannahill pick along with Sherman’s and probably Philbins. Just like RidinSurtains prior to the draft I looked as Ryan T as a big reach in the early 1st round prior to the draft and expected us to go with a pass rushing defensive end in the first round and a QB in the second or third round. Hindsight is 20/20 but Ireland was all smoke screen in this draft and to prove it I do not believe he drafted "any" of the prospects that he brought in prior to the draft other than the kids from Miami. Ryann T was his target all along over Flynn and any other QB outside of Peyton Manning. Basically the Flynn visit with the Phins was looked upon as having the same talent level as the Gerard signing in Irelands eyes talent which is why Ireland was not willing to spend more money to sign Flynn. I love tracking the Dolphins draft and speculating who they might pick but will not claim to watching the film that CK does but prefer to read all the draft info I can get my hands on. Almost all that draft material until very recently supported RidinSutains evaluation that Ryann should be a very late 1st round pick or later. I am past that though not because we just picked the kid but so far regardless of all the trash that is on Irelands table he has hit on his picks in the first round of every draft for the Phins. He is the only GM with that distinction as far back as I can remember and I am including the Shula years. I look at track records and Ireland’s track record so far is working. I remember some of fans on this site down on the Vonte Davis pick at the time, Odrick and Pouncy last year. Hell I was down on Pouncy last year after watching him hike the ball over the QB's head at the UF games but all those picks were pretty solid. Ireland was able to see past the college issues on
those kids and knew that those issues would not stop them from being starters in the NFL. There is certainly some justification for all the 2nd and 3rd rounder’s of Irelands of not making more of an impact but the same can be said in reverse for those UDFA and late rounder’s that have been productive for the Phins so far. Plus I think that most of the fans here has seen a shift in the draft these past couple of years since Parcells has left the building and the draft appear more productive. There are 3 things that come to mind before we throw Ireland under the bus first Ireland did not hire Parcells it was the other way around, second Ireland has kept the his job so far from what we hear in the press because the coaches and other scouts and personal people in the know in the NFL he is highly respected and third I go back to the guys track record with this team so far compared to the past GM and coaches we have had. IMO Ireland really started to come under fire because of the comment/response he made when interviewing a potential first round pick in the draft that centered on using the word prostitute. That comment while certainly not thought out well and if Ireland is telling the truth was more of a knee jerk reaction on his part (which he later apologized for) has been a huge thorn in his side because some members in the media let’s say that generally are not white Caucasians just cannot let it go.
 
Anyway, Tannehill has certainly been a victim of circumstance at times. But has he been more so than a Kirk Cousins or Oswieler, neither of which had any talent around them at all?
My entire point is that there was a tremendous drop off between the #2 and #3 QB in this draft, but not a big difference between #3 and #5 or 6. We were way better off going position player like Floyd or (call me crazy) Ingram at 8 and waiting til the 2nd to go QB. I see no big difference between Tannehill and Osweiler or Cousins, and I think Weeden is better than all 3. Long story short, I think we ****ed up badly... Again.

I personally see a HUGE difference between Tannehill and Kirk Cousins as well as a big difference between Tannehill and Brock Osweiler. Cousins is just an awful, awful decision maker. He had more receiving talent around him than Tannehill did. B.J. Cunningham went in the 6th round and Keshawn Martin went in the 4th round. Brian Linthicum was signed quickly as a UDFA. At Arizona State, Gerell Robinson was a UDFA just like Jeff Fuller was. I can't watch tape of either player and see someone that is really even close to Ryan Tannehill. That's not because Miami drafted Tannehill, it's just the way it is. I said the same a thousand times before Miami even drafted Tannehill or looked like they would.
 
As for the Texas game...let's get an accounting.

I see an astounding eight drops. Just flat out, ball hit ya right on the hands, straight up dropped. Two would have been touchdowns.

On one of those drops, Ryan Swope actually got pushed out of bounds by his corner and came back in underneath the anticipation throw and he looked like he dropped it on purpose because he knew if he caught it, it would be illegal touching. During the play, Tannehill got pressured and rolled out to his left and actually made a very pretty throw for what should have been a touchdown if Swope had not gone out of bounds and subsequently been forced to drop the ball. Tannehill took a huge shot to the ribs from Keenan Robinson right as he threw it.

On a play that wasn't really a drop, but was still a good throw by Tannehill, Ryan makes the perfect read and decision to throw to Nwachuku's back shoulder, ball is right on the mark in single coverage by Diggs, whose back is turned. Crowd clearly wanted a pass interference flag as Diggs never turned to look back at the ball. Even so the ball was perfect, Nwachuku just needs to adjust out to it and go up and get it. He doesn't.

Similar play, Tannehill threw a timing route to the perimeter on a comeback. On this play Ryan has to throw the ball before Nwachuku has broken. He threw the right depth but Nwachuku didn't come back to the quarterback properly so he had to dive to try and get his hands under it and couldn't.

One additional throw was perfect, and was caught by Jeff Fuller for what should have been a touchdown, but the damn fool stepped out. He could have easily stabbed one foot in bounds. But he didn't.

Yet another play was a perfect throw to Fuller on the quick hitch, which Fuller caught, but he pushed off egregiously before he caught the ball and drew the flag. That penalty of course killed the drive.

One more throw was a great decision by Tannehill to challenge the single coverage on Fuller deep toward the end of the game, Ryan had to deal with pressure before this throw and let it go, was a good ball but Fuller just didn't go up and get it. Not a drop, but not a good play by the receiver, and was a good play by the QB.

There was another throw toward the end just like that, Fuller singled up with Byndom, good ball, Fuller just has to go up and get it which he didn't.

Another throw at the end, good decision and throw by Tannehill but Swope gets tangled up with Vaccaro and isn't able to run out to his spot.

The final play of the game for Tannehill on a two point conversion, he's pressured as he rolls out on a design, accelerates to beat the pressure but he's running out of time as he coasts to the sideline looking for an open man, and as it's a two point attempt and there's no point in just running out of bounds or throwing the ball away, he just tries to rifle it as hard as he can into where some of his receivers are, and a Texas defensive player tips the ball. Not what I would call a bad decision or throw.

I see five throwaways. One on a play when Texas managed to sneak blitzers up the middle untouched up the middle and it was all Tannehill could do to get rid of the ball, another on a pressured play where Tannehill was rolling to the right and just released the ball out of bounds where nobody could grab it, a third on a play action roll where he had a guy in his face immediately and even with his foot speed couldn't get out of danger himself so he had to just hurl it into the stands, and a fourth that happened pretty much exactly like the third. The fifth was with 6 minutes left on 3rd & 14 and the play just wasn't going right so Tannehill threw it toward the back of the end zone where Jackson was supposed to be but wasn't because of physical coverage.

I see two more balls tipped at the line of scrimmage. A third was tipped at the line but it was because Okafor beat the pass protection and hit Tannehill from behind as he threw.

I see a number of bad plays.

1. Tannehill threw the out against the cover two look to his right as the corner buzzed the flat. Earlier on the touchdown drive to start off the game, Tannehill threw one of these to the left because the corner similarly buzzed the flat, leaving this option open and Tannehill was able to throw it before Blake Gideon could get out there. However this time, the safety was smart and faked placement a little toward the middle of the field and then cheated way over to the sideline at the snap, even as Tannehill used his eyes to disguise his intentions by looking off to the left. The safety had bead on where the ball would ultimately go and he came a little too close for comfort to actually being able to intercept it. He didn't, but I think he was able to slightly tip the ball incomplete.

2. He throws deep to Jeff Fuller in single coverage with Carrington Byndom. The decision was good as it was single coverage but Fuller just didn't get any separation. To nitpick, Tannehill could have read the corner leverage and gone more to the inside, but I don't know that it mattered as Fuller was not game for this pass.

3. First interception of the game. Gotta give credit to freshman Diggs on this one. Cover three, Diggs in bail technique the whole time, Tannehill didn't even stare this one down because his eyes were to the left until he flipped over to the right seam to try and get the ball to his seam receiver before Blake Gideon could come down on him. Diggs came out of his zone and crossed over to the seam receiver and undercut him. Great play by Diggs. Tough play by Tannehill. Ryan's thrown plenty of those "what the hell were you thinking?!?" passes (and will throw a few more later in this game) but this was not one of them.

4. Nitpicky but I hold Ryan to a pretty high standard. He's throwing the go route to Jeff Fuller who gets an inside release on Carrington Byndom and actually creates some separation, which Byndom is able to recover in closing, but Tannehill slightly underthrows the pass. Better throw beats good coverage.

5. Under heavy pressure, he rolls out to his right and belts a ball into the end zone about one foot too wide. Receiver got hands on it but would have been a difficult catch. Nitpicky criticism under the circumstances but it still could have been a better throw.

6. With a minute left in the first half, Ryan rolls out to his right on 3rd & 24 looking to release the ball, decides to tuck and run but he should have stayed in bounds. He goes out of bounds and preserves a little bit of time for Texas to get the ball back. Texas didn't take advantage but nonetheless, was a mistake.

7. Real bad decision here, under duress with a five man rush, he throws a ball late over the middle to where the safety had plenty of time to get over, and he was lucky this wasn't intercepted. This wasn't an especially smart play by the defense, this was just a bad decision.

8. Second interception of the game, just another really bad decision by Tannehill who is clearly pressing and getting frustrated by the circumstances that have been dictating the offense's non-success. He progresses over to the slant late, doesn't read the leverage of Fuller's coverage and just throws it out there even though Byndom clearly beat Fuller on the route. Fuller's got to win that route but Tannehill has to not throw it if he doesn't.

9. Final interception. Just did not see Kenny Vaccaro, who was lined up in the slot, running out to play robber on the perimeter. Vaccaro had faked the blitz earlier, leading to an audible. Ryan doesn't see get out there, and Jeff Fuller doesn't come back to the quarterback, easy interception. Plays like these are very frustrating about Ryan Tannehill.

10. Difficult throw, executes a little half-roll to his left and has to reset his feet and get lined up before he can fire the ball out, kind of rushes it and the ball sails on him above Ryan Swope's head. It's actually a credit to Ryan that he does so much of this rolling to his left and throwing the ball, and yet these instances of poor accuracy don't happen that often.

Incidentally Kheeston Randall was a beast in this game, one of the biggest reasons TAMU's offense had to be so one-dimensional and were always stuck behind schedule on the down and distance. Doing a Ndamukong Suh impression, at times.
 
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