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Team building approach

Feverdream

Feverdream

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For the last two years, I have consistently argued that the Grier/Dolphins approach to free agency was based upon a couple of set ideas: namely that 1) We were not actually ready to compete and that the players we were signing would not still be with us when we were ready to make a run, and 2) the contracts that we were handing out were deliberately inflated to obtain players who we could easily dismiss when the team was deeper. Every time that Dave Hyde complained about the over-payments, I had to laugh... but I digress. I think I was right about the plan, but it is true that these results could have been accidental. If so, then great, but we have arrived at the point that I described two years ago. Most of the players are gone; they helped us survive; and we have a clean cap and a very young team. I think this was by design.

But now we have a new paradigm-- we are pretty good, and we can complete, and we may want to look at a different type of Free Agent now. But do we want to change our approach?

I think this will bear watching. Will Grier and the boys look to sign younger players for longer amounts of time... or will we stick to the model of bringing in mostly players who are merely two-year patches? I'd say that we need to take a long look at the first couple of contracts that happen when free agency begins. If we hand out a couple of inflated number contracts that actually are designed to be easy to terminate after two years, then I think we'll have our answer. (For instance, the contract that Amari Cooper signed with the Cowboys was a high dollar, but severable contract with little cap pain. It was announced as a 5 year/100-million-dollar contract, but Amari got 40M over two years and the Cowboys will now cut him with only 6M in dead cap. He didn't get anywhere near 100M, despite the press).

Now, it we sign a Chris Godwin type, we won't get away with that. He's 26 and his agent is going to be looking for at least 3 years of guarantees and most likely, a ton of signing bonus dollars as well. The younger Offensive Linemen will likely require the same sort of contracts...

What I guess I am getting at, is this market isn't JUST about signing the (so-called) best players, it is also about sticking to a plan of HOW one uses free agency. I've seen so many posters treat FA as sort of an expensive lark in a candy store. I want this and this and that... and two of those... and...

And it just aint so. A smart front office sticks to a plan, just as it does on draft day... patience Francis. Yes, you can go all-in and blow your cap to Hell or roll the dice on one big season like the Bucs did, but I'm not sure that a young team with a developing QB makes that choice. Indeed, I'm reasonably sure that you don't make that choice... and I think I heard some of that in the McD/Grier interview where they specifically said that it wasn't wise to run in and spend all your money. Yes, I think we'll take a more measured response to FA than some think.

Yes, I think we may sign five or six players, but the trick will be in the signing of five or six players to non-encumbering contracts, and if we do this... I will be extremely pleased-- even if much of the board is nonplussed by some of our signings.
 
Feverdream said:
For the last two years, I have consistently argued that the Grier/Dolphins approach to free agency was based upon a couple of set ideas: namely that 1) We were not actually ready to compete and that the players we were signing would not still be with us when we were ready to make a run, and 2) the contracts that we were handing out were deliberately inflated to obtain players who we could easily dismiss when the team was deeper. Every time that Dave Hyde complained about the over-payments, I had to laugh... but I digress. I think I was right about the plan, but it is true that these results could have been accidental. If so, then great, but we have arrived at the point that I described two years ago. Most of the players are gone; they helped us survive; and we have a clean cap and a very young team. I think this was by design.

But now we have a new paradigm-- we are pretty good, and we can complete, and we may want to look at a different type of Free Agent now. But do we want to change our approach?

I think this will bear watching. Will Grier and the boys look to sign younger players for longer amounts of time... or will we stick to the model of bringing in mostly players who are merely two-year patches? I'd say that we need to take a long look at the first couple of contracts that happen when free agency begins. If we hand out a couple of inflated number contracts that actually are designed to be easy to terminate after two years, then I think we'll have our answer. (For instance, the contract that Amari Cooper signed with the Cowboys was a high dollar, but severable contract with little cap pain. It was announced as a 5 year/100-million-dollar contract, but Amari got 40M over two years and the Cowboys will now cut him with only 6M in dead cap. He didn't get anywhere near 100M, despite the press).

Now, it we sign a Chris Godwin type, we won't get away with that. He's 26 and his agent is going to be looking for at least 3 years of guarantees and most likely, a ton of signing bonus dollars as well. The younger Offensive Linemen will likely require the same sort of contracts...

What I guess I am getting at, is this market isn't JUST about signing the (so-called) best players, it is also about sticking to a plan of HOW one uses free agency. I've seen so many posters treat FA as sort of an expensive lark in a candy store. I want this and this and that... and two of those... and...

And it just aint so. A smart front office sticks to a plan, just as it does on draft day... patience Francis. Yes, you can go all-in and blow your cap to Hell or roll the dice on one big season like the Bucs did, but I'm not sure that a young team with a developing QB makes that choice. Indeed, I'm reasonably sure that you don't make that choice... and I think I heard some of that in the McD/Grier interview where they specifically said that it wasn't wise to run in and spend all your money. Yes, I think we'll take a more measured response to FA than some think.

Yes, I think we may sign five or six players, but the trick will be in the signing of five or six players to non-encumbering contracts, and if we do this... I will be extremely pleased-- even if much of the board is nonplussed by some of our signings.
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I agree.... to a point. We need depth and affordable contracts but spending big on a Tackle is something I will happily accept. Also if we get Godwin I think he would also be worth the money. But overall I agree with your plan.
 
The salary cap and what you write is technically a foreign concept to me, however, I get what you are getting at.
Now, if Miami were to go 'biggish' but not stupid big in FA, who would you sign Fever, and for how much.
 
Buff said:
The salary cap and what you write is technically a foreign concept to me, however, I get what you are getting at.
Now, if Miami were to go 'biggish' but not stupid big in FA, who would you sign Fever, and for how much.
Click to expand...
I'd give our two biggest FA contracts to older Offensive Linemen. Plenty of upfront cash, but severable after 2 years. It's not the money that bothers me, it's the duration of the contract.
Without getting into specific names... I'd be willing to go 20m a year for a OLT, and 15M a year for a Center or Guard. Pay the money, but be prepared to let them walk when we have to pay Tua.
Fix the offensive problem by immediately fixing the line... and as Whitworth has shown, older linemen frequently kick ass.

If we do place yourself into a situation where we sign a 3-4 year player, it's usually best to sign your own... or find that unicorn who is both young... AND who has rarely been injured.

Can you imagine how badly we'll be screwed if we throw money at a Saquon Barkley type and he goes down injured... again?

Fuller wasn't a bad signing because it was one and done, the pain is over. Trading for Ridley would be crazy... not only is he going to cost a lot of money (and the cost of the trade), he is now unreliable. These are not the guys you count on.

Amari Cooper on a one year contract? Sure. On a three year deal? Umm... no.

It's not really about the 2022 pay, it's about the 2024 impact. Rich people tend to make smart monetary decisions-- knowing how to spend money (even lots of money) wisely.
 
Do agree with your opening post Fever.
When baking the cake the draft should be the guts and FA the icing on top.
We still have holes to fill, especially the OL. So yes sign at least 1 experienced but younger OL that you expect to part of the run to the SB and another to fill in. I still hold hope some of the younger OL we have drafted will still step up with better coaching.

The question I ask Fever is which of the current OL we have will be suitable for McD's zone blocking scheme?
 
Feverdream said:
For the last two years, I have consistently argued that the Grier/Dolphins approach to free agency was based upon a couple of set ideas: namely that 1) We were not actually ready to compete and that the players we were signing would not still be with us when we were ready to make a run, and 2) the contracts that we were handing out were deliberately inflated to obtain players who we could easily dismiss when the team was deeper. Every time that Dave Hyde complained about the over-payments, I had to laugh... but I digress. I think I was right about the plan, but it is true that these results could have been accidental. If so, then great, but we have arrived at the point that I described two years ago. Most of the players are gone; they helped us survive; and we have a clean cap and a very young team. I think this was by design.

But now we have a new paradigm-- we are pretty good, and we can complete, and we may want to look at a different type of Free Agent now. But do we want to change our approach?

I think this will bear watching. Will Grier and the boys look to sign younger players for longer amounts of time... or will we stick to the model of bringing in mostly players who are merely two-year patches? I'd say that we need to take a long look at the first couple of contracts that happen when free agency begins. If we hand out a couple of inflated number contracts that actually are designed to be easy to terminate after two years, then I think we'll have our answer. (For instance, the contract that Amari Cooper signed with the Cowboys was a high dollar, but severable contract with little cap pain. It was announced as a 5 year/100-million-dollar contract, but Amari got 40M over two years and the Cowboys will now cut him with only 6M in dead cap. He didn't get anywhere near 100M, despite the press).

Now, it we sign a Chris Godwin type, we won't get away with that. He's 26 and his agent is going to be looking for at least 3 years of guarantees and most likely, a ton of signing bonus dollars as well. The younger Offensive Linemen will likely require the same sort of contracts...

What I guess I am getting at, is this market isn't JUST about signing the (so-called) best players, it is also about sticking to a plan of HOW one uses free agency. I've seen so many posters treat FA as sort of an expensive lark in a candy store. I want this and this and that... and two of those... and...

And it just aint so. A smart front office sticks to a plan, just as it does on draft day... patience Francis. Yes, you can go all-in and blow your cap to Hell or roll the dice on one big season like the Bucs did, but I'm not sure that a young team with a developing QB makes that choice. Indeed, I'm reasonably sure that you don't make that choice... and I think I heard some of that in the McD/Grier interview where they specifically said that it wasn't wise to run in and spend all your money. Yes, I think we'll take a more measured response to FA than some think.

Yes, I think we may sign five or six players, but the trick will be in the signing of five or six players to non-encumbering contracts, and if we do this... I will be extremely pleased-- even if much of the board is nonplussed by some of our signings.
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Well thought out. I agree and hopefully we start signing quality, young, long term players. The only exception might be on a veteran OL position or 2, but even then I would rather go with a younger player who has shown sustained promise but hasnt reached his peak.

i know many are desperate for Armstead, but Im gun shy about the injury history. If we do sign him, I would make it a 3 yr deal with an escape Clause after 2. Then draft a tackle and hope to hell that our OL coach can really teach and develop.
 
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That's not a bad approach, and one 1 generally agreed with.

But if we aren't willing to trade up for Linderbaum, we can't complain when Lindstrom shows why he is graded 2 rounds later.

If we pass on Cooper or Adam's etc. We can't complain when Kirk or Lazard are only putting up 700 yard seasons.

If we pass on Chandler Jones, we can't complain when we realize Ogbahs success had a lot to do with our CB play.

If pass on Campbell and choose to value draft with Chenal, we can't complain If in 3 years we need a new LBER

At some point we need stars not bargains.

Jc Jackson perfect example. I was reading an article on how an upgrade to Jackson doesn't really hurt us cap wise I'd we backload his contract or get creative.

In a nut shell, when re restructure Howard's contract, by time Jackson's contract gets inflated, Howard's contract will be ending.

The cap can be manipulated and tweeked.

I don't want Lindstrom, I want Linderbaum.

I don't want Kirk or Lazard, I want Adam's or Cooper.

Lindstrom, Moses Malone and Lazard want make us competitors.

Cooper, Orlando Brown Jr and Devondre Campbell do.

On the flip side, I CAN'T complain in3 years, when it's time to sign Tua to a big contract that we may have to lose a bunch of guys due to crappy contracts that didn't work out.

I don't mind big contracts, but they have to be done right. Like I said, contracts structured in ways that are expensive on paper but off set at the right times like Jackson and Howard.

I guess where I disagree with some is how close we are.

If we were far away from being a true contender than I 100% agree with the original post.

But I truly believe if we fix the line and get a WR we can truly compete. Because I believe Tua is the answer.

Of course if they're tagged its irrelevant.
But they are not right now
So yes, get me an Orlando Brown Jr. Devante Adam's and/ or Amari Cooper. Trade up to get Linderbaum. Go get Laken Tomlinson.

Those 4 moves alone, IMO, make us truly competitive next year and for years to come.

The thing about the potential top guys in FA, is they are relatively young. We're not talking about 30 year old guys.

Either way, I have my preference. But I won't be too upset if they go with the premise of the OP. I have no issues with the long game. I just feel we are truly close and this is the off season to splurge
 
The unattainable goal, is to have all your best players at high value positions on rookie contracts imo. Of course this isnt realistic but the closer you get to it, the easier it is to fill holes using Free Agency. One of the reason the Fins have so much leeway this time around is because they did this on top of having an inordinate amount of rookie contracts to play with the last few years. QB, T, T, G, G, WR1, EDGE2, S... These are all playing for peanuts at the moment. Its quite significant when you think about it.

So that leaves the Fins with ~64M of cap space to fix the team. Obvious positions of need are QB2, RB1, RB3, WR2, WR3, OT, IOL, MLB, EDGE. Ideally, I'd like to fix RB, IOL and MLB in FA and the others in the draft, but given the minimal amount amount of cap attributed to the OL right now, I'd add OT to the FA fixes. Im still not sure what I'd like to do with the WR position. I'd usually go to the draft but I'd like to sign one in FA, just not sure on what tier to target yet.

Signing a 2nd tier guy like JuJu Smith-Schuster is going to be easy on the cap but will put more pressure on you to hit on WR in the draft. While signing a guy like Godwin will be much higher, it will definitely allow you target WR later in the draft if the right opportunity doesnt present itself. In the end my FA wishlist would be WR(2), OT(1), IOL(1), MLB(2), RB(2), RB(3). (tier)
 
fishfanmiami said:
Screw it go get some players. Spend the money and build a winner
Click to expand...


GRYPHONK said:
That's not a bad approach, and one 1 generally agreed with.

But if we aren't willing to trade up for Linderbaum, we can't complain when Lindstrom shows why he is graded 2 rounds later.

If we pass on Cooper or Adam's etc. We can't complain when Kirk or Lazard are only putting up 700 yard seasons.

If we pass on Chandler Jones, we can't complain when we realize Ogbahs success had a lot to do with our CB play.

If pass on Campbell and choose to value draft with Chenal, we can't complain If in 3 years we need a new LBER

At some point we need stars not bargains.

Jc Jackson perfect example. I was reading an article on how an upgrade to Jackson doesn't really hurt us cap wise I'd we backload his contract or get creative.

In a nut shell, when re restructure Howard's contract, by time Jackson's contract gets inflated, Howard's contract will be ending.

The cap can be manipulated and tweeked.

I don't want Lindstrom, I want Linderbaum.

I don't want Kirk or Lazard, I want Adam's or Cooper.

Lindstrom, Moses Malone and Lazard want make us competitors.

Cooper, Orlando Brown Jr and Devondre Campbell do.

On the flip side, I CAN'T complain in3 years, when it's time to sign Tua to a big contract that we may have to lose a bunch of guys due to crappy contracts that didn't work out.

I don't mind big contracts, but they have to be done right. Like I said, contracts structured in ways that are expensive on paper but off set at the right times like Jackson and Howard.

I guess where I disagree with some is how close we are.

If we were far away from being a true contender than I 100% agree with the original post.

But I truly believe if we fix the line and get a WR we can truly compete. Because I believe Tua is the answer.

Of course if they're tagged its irrelevant.
But they are not right now
So yes, get me an Orlando Brown Jr. Devante Adam's and/ or Amari Cooper. Trade up to get Linderbaum. Go get Laken Tomlinson.

Those 4 moves alone, IMO, make us truly competitive next year and for years to come.

The thing about the potential top guys in FA, is they are relatively young. We're not talking about 30 year old guys.

Either way, I have my preference. But I won't be too upset if they go with the premise of the OP. I have no issues with the long game. I just feel we are truly close and this is the off season to splurge
Click to expand...

I like this. Let's not spend money to spend money. Let's spend it on difference makers and surround Tua with the best possible talent so we can see what he's got. Like Ross, I don't have another ten years to see if we can luck into a Superbowl. Are we going to fish or cut bait?
 
Feverdream said:
For the last two years, I have consistently argued that the Grier/Dolphins approach to free agency was based upon a couple of set ideas: namely that 1) We were not actually ready to compete and that the players we were signing would not still be with us when we were ready to make a run, and 2) the contracts that we were handing out were deliberately inflated to obtain players who we could easily dismiss when the team was deeper. Every time that Dave Hyde complained about the over-payments, I had to laugh... but I digress. I think I was right about the plan, but it is true that these results could have been accidental. If so, then great, but we have arrived at the point that I described two years ago. Most of the players are gone; they helped us survive; and we have a clean cap and a very young team. I think this was by design.

But now we have a new paradigm-- we are pretty good, and we can complete, and we may want to look at a different type of Free Agent now. But do we want to change our approach?

I think this will bear watching. Will Grier and the boys look to sign younger players for longer amounts of time... or will we stick to the model of bringing in mostly players who are merely two-year patches? I'd say that we need to take a long look at the first couple of contracts that happen when free agency begins. If we hand out a couple of inflated number contracts that actually are designed to be easy to terminate after two years, then I think we'll have our answer. (For instance, the contract that Amari Cooper signed with the Cowboys was a high dollar, but severable contract with little cap pain. It was announced as a 5 year/100-million-dollar contract, but Amari got 40M over two years and the Cowboys will now cut him with only 6M in dead cap. He didn't get anywhere near 100M, despite the press).

Now, it we sign a Chris Godwin type, we won't get away with that. He's 26 and his agent is going to be looking for at least 3 years of guarantees and most likely, a ton of signing bonus dollars as well. The younger Offensive Linemen will likely require the same sort of contracts...

What I guess I am getting at, is this market isn't JUST about signing the (so-called) best players, it is also about sticking to a plan of HOW one uses free agency. I've seen so many posters treat FA as sort of an expensive lark in a candy store. I want this and this and that... and two of those... and...

And it just aint so. A smart front office sticks to a plan, just as it does on draft day... patience Francis. Yes, you can go all-in and blow your cap to Hell or roll the dice on one big season like the Bucs did, but I'm not sure that a young team with a developing QB makes that choice. Indeed, I'm reasonably sure that you don't make that choice... and I think I heard some of that in the McD/Grier interview where they specifically said that it wasn't wise to run in and spend all your money. Yes, I think we'll take a more measured response to FA than some think.

Yes, I think we may sign five or six players, but the trick will be in the signing of five or six players to non-encumbering contracts, and if we do this... I will be extremely pleased-- even if much of the board is nonplussed by some of our signings.
Click to expand...
Don't show this to WildbillIV, makes too much sense. I agree on the posters that say "we need to sign X,Y,and Z then A, B and C", just unrealistic. Imagine actually having a plan and working it? We are finally in a position to add pieces to put us over the hump, instead of bodies to fill temporary positions. Good Post!
 
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