Ted Ginn Jr. vs. Desean Jackson

[oasis]

First off, this is not at all meant to bash Ted Ginn in any way, shape, or form.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these two - namely, on what you think the reasons are behind Jackson's relative rookie success in Philly and Ginn's slow but sure progress with us.

Both of these guys were known for their speed in college, and both are small/thin. Ginn came from a better college program, and was obviously rated much higher on draft boards than Jackson (recall that the Texans wanted to take Ginn so it wasn't just Cam). Jackson suffered somewhat of a draft day tumble in April (thanks, perhaps, in part to Ginn's slow start??).

They are similar types of players - speed, lack of size, and mad return skills.

Philly so far is getting far better value for their pick (though things are starting to pick up for Ginn).

I guess I'm surprised Jackson has gotten off to such a good start in Philly. They even used him in a wildcat formation last night vs. the Giants for a TD. Why don't we use Ginn in creative ways as well? Was Ginn THAT much worse of a route-runner that we need him to concentrate on route-running as opposed to returning kicks (til recently) or being a part of Wildcat plays? Hell, we're even running end arounds with Camarillo!

Is it just that Philly can use him in the slot whereas Ginn has to star as our #1 receiver and match up vs. the #1 CB?

 

[FINMAN13]

As far as the Wildcat...

I am sure that there are plenty for packages with different players. If you remember the best plays by the wildcat is with Ricky running from the left really fast. They have not used it as much as of late. They mix it up with pretty much a shotgun package with a TE & RB on each side of Ronnie.

The point is that Miami will get back to the basic package more later in the season. Between now and then you will see new formats of the base package. I think Ginn and Bess will be used in it more towards the end of the season.

I can see Ginn taking the snap and faking to Ricky and handing off to Ronnie. Ginn will be in the WILDCAT...just no use in showing all the cards this early in the season. Let's face it the basic package should get us past the next couple of games. Look for Ginn and Bess to have big plays vs. NE and JETS later in the season.

 

[rickyfan85]

First off, this is not at all meant to bash Ted Ginn in any way, shape, or form.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these two - namely, on what you think the reasons are behind Jackson's relative rookie success in Philly and Ginn's slow but sure progress with us.

Both of these guys were known for their speed in college, and both are small/thin. Ginn came from a better college program, and was obviously rated much higher on draft boards than Jackson (recall that the Texans wanted to take Ginn so it wasn't just Cam). Jackson suffered somewhat of a draft day tumble in April (thanks, perhaps, in part to Ginn's slow start??).

They are similar types of players - speed, lack of size, and mad return skills.

Philly so far is getting far better value for their pick (though things are starting to pick up for Ginn).

I guess I'm surprised Jackson has gotten off to such a good start in Philly. They even used him in a wildcat formation last night vs. the Giants for a TD. Why don't we use Ginn in creative ways as well? Was Ginn THAT much worse of a route-runner that we need him to concentrate on route-running as opposed to returning kicks (til recently) or being a part of Wildcat plays? Hell, we're even running end arounds with Camarillo!

Is it just that Philly can use him in the slot whereas Ginn has to star as our #1 receiver and match up vs. the #1 CB?

That very last thing you said. Even prime talent WR's need about 3 years to develop at the pro-level. After that time has passed is when assessments become more valid. When we drafted this kid we planned on keeping him in the slot for atleast a few years, and then maybe moving him into the number 2 slot. Thats back when we had Chambers and Booker. Well the entire team fell apart from top down and we were forced to clean house. Out goes Chambers, out goes Booker, and no one ever really expected Ginn to be starting at this point of his Career. Probably not even he himself.

But yes i would say that if we had a legit number 1, then this kid would show alot more progress alot faster. It doesnt mean he wont get to where we need him to be, it might just take a little longer and be a little uglier. I'm one of the guys that has been ripping on him for weeks. I dont like the fact that he still doesnt use his hands to catch the ball rather he prefers his body. That college **** needs to go. But yeah, he's showing serious signs of life and hopefully we'll get Ocho Cinco to complement him. If that happens, he will have an amazing season next year.

 

[dlockz]

I personally think Jackson is a more complete football player and definately runs better routes. Ginn got alot more hype in college mainly because he went to Ohio St but if you watch college film of these guys, he was a much better receiver in college than Ginn. As a rookie Jackson is making a fairly seemless transition to the pros and has performed as well as you can expect a rookie receiver to do. I do feel that overall Ginn has shown improvement and very good hands but seems somewhat less of a playmaker than Jackson. I do think Jackson is the more likely probowler but feel both guys will have productive careers.

 

[FinsGuy939]

im just happy that ginn has yet to drop the ball in celebration before crossing the goal line. and it may help jackson that he has a qb like mcnabb who takes a ton of shots downfield.

 

[dlockz]

im just happy that ginn has yet to drop the ball in celebration before crossing the goal line. and it may help jackson that he has a qb like mcnabb who takes a ton of shots downfield.

Well since Ginn has not caught a td that was not in the endzone this year that would be very hard.

 

[FinsGuy939]

its probably more difficult when your in more of a ball control offense. and equally as hard when you outrun the arm strength of the qb, i doubt jackson has that problem with mcnabb

 

[dlockz]

its probably more difficult when your in more of a ball control offense. and equally as hard when you outrun the arm strength of the qb, i doubt jackson has that problem with mcnabb

Well Philly has only thrown the ball about 40 times more than us for the season so its not like we dont throw the ball. i think arm strength is not the issue, Jackson just does more when he has the ball.

 

[vadin]

Jackson came into an Eagles team w/ a proven offense and a probowl QB throwing him the ball. Ginn played on one of the worst teams in NFL history last year..

They are both fast but Jackson has better moves in space. Ginn looks faster top end

 

[FinsGuy939]

lets put it this way...if you were a db, who do you fear throwing the long ball more, mcnabb or pennington? its not a knock on pennington, just contrasting styles. thats what explains jacksons advantage in so called production over ginn

 

[dlockz]

Jackson came into an Eagles team w/ a proven offense and a probowl QB throwing him the ball. Ginn played on one of the worst teams in NFL history last year..

They are both fast but Jackson has better moves in space. Ginn looks faster top end

Well that proven offense has not lended itself to many wr's having great years. With the exception of Kevin Curtis last year no receiver outside of Terrel owens has put up great numbers. Lets quit taking away credit from Jackson on his rookie year because supposedly its easy for wr's to have great years there when that has not been the case.

 

[SnakeoilSeller]

Being close to Philly I get bombarded with Desean Jackson info. So far Jackson has performed above where anyone thought he would be, however I like Ginn, most probably because I am a homer. There is something about Jackson that makes me feel like he could be a problem down the road. I don't know why and I don't feel like being bashed by everyone for saying that, it is just a feeling.

Comparing them is difficult to do anyway. Jackson did not have the pressure that Ginn had, being a top 10 pick and being picked instead of you know who, had to be somewhat overwhelming. Not to mention that lots of Fin fans will associate Ginn with Cam, which creates even more pressure, not to mention bad feelings. All through Eagles camp they talked about what a surprise they had with Jackson. There was no way Ginn could be described as that being picked #9. Jackson also has the benefit with McNabb throwing downfield, as someone pointed out earlier, but also the Eagles throw like 65% of the time.

If Ginn was playing for the Eagles his numbers would be equal to if not better than Jackson's, I don't know if Jackson'e numbers would be better than Ginn's if he were playing for the Dokphins!

 

[dlockz]

Being close to Philly I get bombarded with Desean Jackson info. So far Jackson has performed above where anyone thought he would be, however I like Ginn, most probably because I am a homer. There is something about Jackson that makes me feel like he could be a problem down the road. I don't know why and I don't feel like being bashed by everyone for saying that, it is just a feeling.

Comparing them is difficult to do anyway. Jackson did not have the pressure that Ginn had, being a top 10 pick and being picked instead of you know who, had to be somewhat overwhelming. Not to mention that lots of Fin fans will associate Ginn with Cam, which creates even more pressure, not to mention bad feelings. All through Eagles camp they talked about what a surprise they had with Jackson. There was no way Ginn could be described as that being picked #9. Jackson also has the benefit with McNabb throwing downfield, as someone pointed out earlier, but also the Eagles throw like 65% of the time.

If Ginn was playing for the Eagles his numbers would be equal to if not better than Jackson's, I don't know if Jackson'e numbers would be better than Ginn's if he were playing for the Dokphins!

You wont get bashed for that on this board but the dolphins throw only 5 less passes a game than the Phins so that point is quite moot. I have little doubt that Jackson as a rookie could have done what Ginn did , but I do have doubt that as a rookie Ginn could do what jackson has done so Im just the opposite. i just feel that Jackson is a better receiver and makes better plays in the open field. Jackson earned his playing time with a great preseason, and if it was just the qb and system then Eagles receivers would regularly be putting up these numbers.

 

[btk1]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on these two - namely, on what you think the reasons are behind Jackson's relative rookie success in Philly and Ginn's slow but sure progress with us.

Philly so far is getting far better value for their pick (though things are starting to pick up for Ginn).

First I would say you can pretty much throw out Ted Ginn's rookie season as a wash simply because he played on one of the worst football teams in NFL history and the coaching staff last year were too busy trying to figure out how to keep their jobs instead of molding and mentoring Ted Ginn into an NFL receiver not to mention Ginn had god knows who throwing him the ball last year.

With that said just in these last 4 or 5 games this coaching staff has just n ow started to get Ginn involved in the offense in a major way. Desean Jackson immediately went to an established team with a seasoned QB so that helps out big time.

Not to take anythng away from Jackson because he is an outstanding receiver but I consider "value" a receiver that helps his team get to the playoffs and I dont see Jackson getting his team to the playoffs this year and Ted Ginn has a good shot at getting to the playoffs.

How many returns for TD's does Jackson and how many has Ted Ginn had called back through no fault of his own?

Just my $0.02

 

[vadin]

Well that proven offense has not lended itself to many wr's having great years. With the exception of Kevin Curtis last year no receiver outside of Terrel owens has put up great numbers. Lets quit taking away credit from Jackson on his rookie year because supposedly its easy for wr's to have great years there when that has not been the case.

Jackson has played great dont get me wrong...

But this thread is about why hes had so much more success than Ginn early on. It is no secret why Ginn is playing so much better now that we have some consistency on offense..did you watch the fins O play last year? D. Jackson doesnt have two 100 yards games to start the season with that offense trust me..

Is Jackson a better(I think thats what your getting at)? Too early to say..I dont think so even if the numbers might be against me