The All-Purpose Draft thread....

[Etuoo33]

However, he consistently makes 3rd downs. Charlie Weis said on Sirius NFL Radio that if your team is looking for a 3rd down star isn't flashy but is feisty and can intimidate opponents with his plays, Ladd McConkey is your pick. I can see Coach McDaniel and GM Grier absolutely loving him because he is so consistent and reliable at making plays (and he could be available at #21). He is also allegedly intelligent. This may be better alternative to throwing a lot more money to attract OBJ and he'll be around for 4 years+ - not just 1 season.

We have had enough 3rd receivers that can't get open...

Scouting Report: Weaknesses​

• Lacks the twitch to consistently create separation; struggles with contested catches.
• Needs improvement in catch-and-run transitions, seems uncomfortable in these situations.
• Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field and return roles.
• Intermediate route fluidity could be improved.
• Needs more nuanced route-running to consistently leverage against DBs.

 

[Etuoo33]

Your thoughts? I think he has trouble off the line against NFL DB's

 

[MrChadRico]

and there are some posters in here who can't name one player in our draft range who has the ability to become a starting LT in this league and no ability to see that the OL isn't the only unit on this team that needs to get better.

There is a very good chance that Alt, Fuaga, Fashanu & Fautanu are all gone by pick #21. After that none of the Tackle prospects project as LT, except maybe Mims and he's so raw its scary.

I'm team BPA.... to a point, if the BPA is a Gaurd but your 2nd BPA is a WR/Edge, im taking the WR or Edge.

 

[Finswatch]

There is a very good chance that Alt, Fuaga, Fashanu & Fautanu are all gone by pick #21. After that none of the Tackle prospects project as LT, except maybe Mims and he's so raw its scary.

I'm team BPA.... to a point, if the BPA is a Gaurd but your 2nd BPA is a WR/Edge, im taking the WR or Edge.

Then we agree, go BPA. I don't think at 21, and with 6 picks, we're going to be in position to draft anyone or trade up for anyone who has a great chance to be a starting LT. I like Barton but think its very possible he goes earlier. Do not like Guyton or Mims at 21 because they are both projects with injury histories. Maybe Guyton plays LT one day but I don't think Mims will.

WRs and DEs are not redundant for us in the first or second round. Glad you get that, too. we could get a WR or Edge who could play a lot this year and make a much bigger impact that a T getting splinters in his ass

 

[Etuoo33]

It is interesting that some players can make that transition from right tackle to left tackle, while others struggle. From an athletic testing/measurements profile, both Mims and Guyton would seem to be good bets. Guyton was the blindside protector for a lefthanded quarterback, so that might explain why he played RT.

Maybe Mims is more questionable and you raise a good point with Kirby Smart. I would take Guyton over Mims personally, but more because of injuries. Miami already has a LT who struggles to stay on the field.

Getting Guyton could also allow us to move (gulp) Austin Jackson back to his natural position. That is if he can't make the move.

 

[Finswatch]

We have had enough 3rd receivers that can't get open...

Scouting Report: Weaknesses​

• Lacks the twitch to consistently create separation; struggles with contested catches.
• Needs improvement in catch-and-run transitions, seems uncomfortable in these situations.
• Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field and return roles.
• Intermediate route fluidity could be improved.
• Needs more nuanced route-running to consistently leverage against DBs.

Is this the Ladd McConkey Daniel Jeremiah and Lindy's both say is the best route runner in this draft?
Have you ever watched him play? He didn't seem to have trouble separating in the greatest conference in college football.

Here's what Lindy's says:
Comp player: Jaylen Reed Green Bay Packers

They named McConkey as the top route runner in class saying:
Has outstanding quickness
His nuances and creativity with route running makes him a difficult matchup

Scouting report: Strengths

Good athlete, had enough speed to challenge top SEC prospects Emmanuel Forbes and Kris Abrams-Draine.
Route running skills are very refined
Gets in and out of his breaks with agility and is able to jam out physical cornerbacks to gain separation
run after catch ability is assisted by his high agility level
Able to juke out LBs and DBs on his way down the field

We'd be lucky to get him at 55 but he won't be there. 21 would be a big reach but he's going to be a very productive player for a team that takes him between 33 and 50.

 

[rickd13]

Yes, I am, Take an edge player, a WR or even a DT over a college RT who might someday play LT. I'm waiting for an example of a Raven first rounder who didn't play right away and play well. We're not going to have any success if we keep having 4-6 player drafts where maybe one guy like Achane contributes right away and the rest like Cam Smith and Channing Tindall sit on the bench for 2-3 seasons.
Teams aren't thinking about "long term success" in the salary cap era. You have a decent QB on a rookie contract you need to keep drafting players in that window who can help you win now.

Here's what the better teams in the AFC did in last year's draft
Buffalo
1 Dalton Kincaid
2 O'Cyrus Torrance

Baltimore
1 Zay Flowers

Texans
1 CJ Stroud and Will Anderson
3 Tank Dell

Chiefs
2 Rashee Rice
3 Wanya Morris


And Detroit's awesome draft last year with LaPorta, Branch, Gibbs and Campbell was the catalyst that led them to being one of the NFC's best teams

Tindall was a third round pick for Christ's sakes. Tindall hasn't played because he's not good, not because they didn't have a need for him to play. I feel your view is so short sighted. Getting guys that can play immediately to fill holes is what free agency is for. I feel that the first round especially, should be used on core players at premium positions that you have control of for five years on a rookie contract. The Texans are a bad example. They had two picks in the top three and had needs at bunch of positions.
You act like I'm saying I don't want a guy that can play right away. What I am saying is, I'm not passing on talent for need even if that means the guy I pick doesn't start right away.

 

[rafael]

Obviously a very good player. And he is a very good athlete. At 313 he ran a 1.68 & 4.97. Compare that to a player the Dolphins are rumored to be interested at DT: Darius Robinson- an allegedly good athlete - who, at only 285, ran a 1.75 / 4.95. Barton was more explosive in the 10 by a good chunk and equally fast in the 40 while carrying basically 30 more pounds!

(Aside: another caveat re Robinson’s lack of explosiveness).

That said, two caveats on Barton:

1) His short shuttle of 4.55 was not exceptional; nor did it reach or go under the noted “sweet spot” for OTs of 4.47.

2) The Armstead size / athleticism comp doesn’t hold up, imo. For one, Armstead does not have short arms. Not sure how you keep noting that narrative. His arms were 34.08. 34 is usually a minimum standard teams want to see for OT. While there are exceptions, they are rare. Whereas Barton’s are 32.875. Much closer to Eichenberg’s (32.375). I do think arm length is a factor especially for OT (again, in spite of exceptions). Further, Armstead also had a much faster 40 (4.71), and showed exceptional strength, putting up 31 reps in the bench with 34+ arms. That’s super impressive.

Fautanu also has similar athleticism but more length (34.5) and generally a better player, imo. Though we don’t have any short area times in him. But he’s going to be long gone before we pick.

I don’t dislike Barton. I’d prefer him over several players. But I’m not sure he’s suitable for OT in the NFL. He’s an OG or C. But I also have just a slight bit of concern in that he’s had similar hype that Eichenberg did.

I think you underestimated Armstead’s athletic ability when he was first drafted. I don’t deny Barton’s athleticism or his ability to improve. I just have doubts he’ll ever reach a plus level starter at left tackle.

I already recounted a rant an NFL OL coach gave me about how "only poor evaluators" make arm length the end all for who can play OT in the NFL. He went on and on about how it was just part of the equation. And only "idiot draftniks" believe that 34" is some "magic number". Those were his words, not mine, but I do agree that it is far from some hard rule.

 

[Travis34]

If draft a guy who can only play RT- moving Austin Jackson back over to the left side may not be the worst idea in a year. He showed promise as a rookie, and we seem to have competent coaches now

 

[rafael]

Maybe, but TA is a master of technique, hand use, counters, etc.

You can propose that good coaching can help anyone in those areas but there are a whole bunch of guys with long starting careers that never attain the skill level of Armstead. His propensity for injury is his only flaw. Assuming any individual will get to his level of play is a stretch.

TA wasn't a master coming in, but he had an athletic profile that lent itself to that kind of development. Barton has a similar athletic profile, actually better. Development is never guaranteed, but projection is what the draft is about. I'm never assuming any player will be anything. What all teams do is project whether a player can reach a level based on the traits he has. Barton has traits that suggest that potential is a good bet.

 

[dolfan91]

Your thoughts? I think he has trouble off the line against NFL DB's

I'm not a fan of drafting him at #21.

 

[dolfan91]

I'm leary of moving Jackson back to LT. He wasn't very good there. No guarantee he'd play well. You could be weakening two positions?

 

[rickd13]

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I already recounted a rant an NFL OL coach gave me about how "only poor evaluators" make arm length the end all for who can play OT in the NFL. He went on and on about how it was just part of the equation. And only "idiot draftniks" believe that 34" is some "magic number". Those were his words, not mine, but I do agree that it is far from some hard rule.

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Why do you keep assuming that the reason I think Barton won't be a good tackle is because of his arm length? I think it's part of his problem, but the thing that bothers me the most about him is his playing strength. He looks like he struggles on an island in pass protection. I understand that he's athletic and can be an asset in the running game, but if he was going to be a left tackle for me, the number one thing I would want him to be able to do is pass block. Maybe you are right, and he eventually gets there, but I have reservations.

 

[Kebo]

If you are looking for a LT Mims has a much better chance than Barton

 

[Finswatch]

Tindall was a third round pick for Christ's sakes. Tindall hasn't played because he's not good, not because they didn't have a need for him to play. I feel your view is so short sighted. Getting guys that can play immediately to fill holes is what free agency is for. I feel that the first round especially, should be used on core players at premium positions that you have control of for five years on a rookie contract. The Texans are a bad example. They had two picks in the top three and had needs at bunch of positions.

You act like I'm saying I don't want a guy that can play right away. What I am saying is, I'm not passing on talent for need even if that means the guy I pick doesn't start right away.

Don't really get your argument, If we take a DT or WR or edge in the first round who are we passing on with more talent? I think you did say you wanted a guy who is our future LT even if he doesn't play right away. Not in favor of that because then you would be passing on a better player now and the 2024 season is what matters, not 3 or 5 years from now. This isn't 1984 where teams have 12 picks and there is no free agency. You have to fill holes because rosters often lose 25% or more of last year's players.

You don't like the Houston example but the point is that all the AFC teams who were better than Miami had 2 or more rookies who made big impacts in their rookie years. I'll give you another example that might hit closer to home- in 2020 we had 3 first round picks and we spent two of them on projections, a young LT and an athletic CB nobody thought would get drafted before the 3rd round. He busted out and the LT took three years to become serviceable- at another position.

You're kinda straddling the fence but it sounds like your first preference is to take a LT in round 1 whether he plays this year or not.

I don't know who you think is going to be available at 21 for us that fits your criteria of future LT? You don't typically get left tackles at the end of the first round.

We've had 8 picks in the 2 previous drafts and the only one who has played and made a serious contribution is Achane and you want to take the 21st best player (potentially) and turn him into a good investment over a 5 year period rather than an immediate starter.

No thanks..