This is a repost from another thread where I was responding to another poster yet again suggesting somehow we are just as bad as we were last year with Marino in a way to try and defend Beck's ridiculous efforts.
When you respond please keep in mind that yes, Im fully aware Beck was a rookie, and that in no way am I suggesting that we should expect someone to be Marino.
No one will ever be that good thats why Marino is the greatest football player ever. For reasons listed below, any year that Marino played and wasnt awarded the MVP of the team by the organization it was a joke of an award. Basically from his 2nd year(84) all the way through his season before his last two(97 I believe), Marino was easily the best player in the entire NFL each and every one of those years despite his statistics(whether they were great or sub par for his standards, he was still the same player).
The point of this is to try and point out the effects of a great QB and the effects of a bad QB on your team. I think it makes it pretty clear to understand why QB is the most important position on the team and how much of a factor it is in not only how many games you win, but how well the other players on the rest of the team play and appear to be playing.
This is for all you youngsters who were deprived the priveledge of watching the greatest ever and might not understand how good he was and how bad Beck was last year.
So here goes....QBing and its signifigance 101.
Greyboy is right to say so. Im so glad someone besides me relalizes this. I get so sick of Beck apolagists suggesting Manning or Marino or whoever wouldnt have done anything with that team. BS. Marino probably has us winning at least 8 if not more with that team last year. GET REAL!!!
First of all the fact that Ronnie gets hurt is a total non factor if we have Marino. Name one good back he ever had.......thanks for playing.
I also get sick of hearing how he needed a RB to win a bowl. Nonsense. Running backs are for offense. So long as Marino was on the team, we had offense baby. You dont need to worry about that.
What Marino needed was a good defense. Just go down the line and look at our defensive ranks every year and notice the corrolation of when the defense was decent or better the deeper we went in the playoffs. Its that simple. Give him a #1 ranked defense like Montana, Aikman, and Bradshaw had in the years they won Super Bowls and guess what Dan wouldve done?
So back to last years team.....With Marino on it, not only do we move the ball, but we score some points here and there. Some on establishing good drives and some on homerun plays made by Marino. We score enough to win some games.
Also you want to talk about the line....guess what. Webb and Sims were HIGHLY overrated. You think Bruce Smith never had a sack vs. Webb. Reality is Bruce Smith could never sack Marino. Marino just got the ball out too fast and he also had the BEST moves WITHIN THE POCKET to make lone rushers miss and then reload and make a play before anyone could sack him. If you were gonna bother Dan in the pocket you better get push in the middle, otherwise he was just to quick and made people miss most of the time.
Receivers....guess what. I like Clayton and Duper but, Marino MADE THEM much like he did whoever else was thrown into the lineup. Marino had a LONG history of making guys look good out there. He could take guys you never heard of and make them look like pro bowl receivers on a given day. He did have Fryar, McDuffie, Clayton, Duper, and Moore for a short time who were all good players and probably wouldve had success on other teams, but so would Ginn and Booker. He wouldve made those two look like studs last year. Camarillo wouldve been Scott Schwedes all over again. Hagan wouldve been Freddy Banks making big plays left and right. Its almost impossible not to catch Marino passes when they will implant themselves in your body if they dont hit your hands. Marino was so money.
This is why people sleep on how important QB is, and exactly how poorly Beck played the position last year. They want to talk about the rest of the team and the negative effect it has on the QB play and that is true to a degree. However, they forget the CONVERSE effect. If you have a great QB your OL is twice as good. It takes pressure off them for one thing. They worry less about messing up because they are comfortable knowing should they make a mistake their QB will pick up their slack and make a play which will mask it to the usual fan.
They also wont be facing much 8 men in the box vs. the run because teams know better than that. No one will put 8 in the box vs. a good QB, even if you have Adrian Peterson at RB.
It takes pressure off the WRs because they know they just need to focus on running their route correctly and if they are open the ball is there for them to make a play. It greatly enhances the whole offense.
And when your QB is bad, guess what. All of the problems are compounded as we saw with John Beck last year. It has the opposite effect on the rest of the offense. Which probably explains the excitement and sigh of relief look on the players faces during that Buffalo game last year when the great Cleo Lemon came back into the huddle and John Beck was sent to the bench. Pretty bad sign if you ask me. Notice the offense responded IMMEDIATELY btw with a big bomb to Ginn.
When Beck was in there the OL had all the pressure in the world on them because the guy behind them couldnt make a play if they got beaten. The defense they faced did not fear at all getting burned, they could send pressure, stack the box, whatever they wanted to do really. The receivers for us had to work extra hard to get open, and then often werent rewarded when all their hard work accomplished its goal and they were open. Beck couldnt get them the ball.
And to finish this education on QBing and the effect a great player such as Marino has and conversely a total garbage player like Beck has, the idea of a running game helps you D more than a good QB is kinda nonsense. Both of them help to keep the D fresh and off the field, not just the running game. If you have a QB who can make plays, guess what. It keeps the offense off the field. Guys are driving, making plays, moving the ball, and converting first downs. Especially 3rd and mediums or longs into firsts. That keeps your D on the bench resting as much as a strong running game does if not more so.
People always assume it isnt as good because they think of passing and quick scores or 50 yard bombs. That isnt always the case. Plus scoring and giving your defense a lead to work with definately helps. If you can get up multiple scores late in a game your D can pin its ears back and get after the QB. Not having the threat of a running game to face certainly helps out your D. Its like almost playing for Bellicheat and knowing the other teams offensive plays and what they are running each time. So a great QB helps your defense rest and puts them in better situations more so than a good running game. Realize that.
Thats why I wanted Ryan so much but, oh well. Long should be a good player. LT just isnt as important and never will be as important as your QB.
And Greyboy is dead on and knows what he is talking about. And quit sleeping on Marino and realize it would be almost impossible to have a losing season with him at QB and definately not 1-15 no matter who the rest of the team is. As long as they are NFL players, youre gonna win more than you lose with Marino at QB.
With Beck on the other hand, youre gonna struggle to score, struggle to even move the ball, and every other player on your team including the defense, but especially the offense is going to look worse than they are as a result of having him on the field. If you dont believe me, get one of the players high or drunk and ask them with no camera or mic around and see what happens. Or give them truth syrm or whatever. Its true people. Greyboy knows whats up.
When you respond please keep in mind that yes, Im fully aware Beck was a rookie, and that in no way am I suggesting that we should expect someone to be Marino.
No one will ever be that good thats why Marino is the greatest football player ever. For reasons listed below, any year that Marino played and wasnt awarded the MVP of the team by the organization it was a joke of an award. Basically from his 2nd year(84) all the way through his season before his last two(97 I believe), Marino was easily the best player in the entire NFL each and every one of those years despite his statistics(whether they were great or sub par for his standards, he was still the same player).
The point of this is to try and point out the effects of a great QB and the effects of a bad QB on your team. I think it makes it pretty clear to understand why QB is the most important position on the team and how much of a factor it is in not only how many games you win, but how well the other players on the rest of the team play and appear to be playing.
This is for all you youngsters who were deprived the priveledge of watching the greatest ever and might not understand how good he was and how bad Beck was last year.
So here goes....QBing and its signifigance 101.
Greyboy is right to say so. Im so glad someone besides me relalizes this. I get so sick of Beck apolagists suggesting Manning or Marino or whoever wouldnt have done anything with that team. BS. Marino probably has us winning at least 8 if not more with that team last year. GET REAL!!!
First of all the fact that Ronnie gets hurt is a total non factor if we have Marino. Name one good back he ever had.......thanks for playing.
I also get sick of hearing how he needed a RB to win a bowl. Nonsense. Running backs are for offense. So long as Marino was on the team, we had offense baby. You dont need to worry about that.
What Marino needed was a good defense. Just go down the line and look at our defensive ranks every year and notice the corrolation of when the defense was decent or better the deeper we went in the playoffs. Its that simple. Give him a #1 ranked defense like Montana, Aikman, and Bradshaw had in the years they won Super Bowls and guess what Dan wouldve done?
So back to last years team.....With Marino on it, not only do we move the ball, but we score some points here and there. Some on establishing good drives and some on homerun plays made by Marino. We score enough to win some games.
Also you want to talk about the line....guess what. Webb and Sims were HIGHLY overrated. You think Bruce Smith never had a sack vs. Webb. Reality is Bruce Smith could never sack Marino. Marino just got the ball out too fast and he also had the BEST moves WITHIN THE POCKET to make lone rushers miss and then reload and make a play before anyone could sack him. If you were gonna bother Dan in the pocket you better get push in the middle, otherwise he was just to quick and made people miss most of the time.
Receivers....guess what. I like Clayton and Duper but, Marino MADE THEM much like he did whoever else was thrown into the lineup. Marino had a LONG history of making guys look good out there. He could take guys you never heard of and make them look like pro bowl receivers on a given day. He did have Fryar, McDuffie, Clayton, Duper, and Moore for a short time who were all good players and probably wouldve had success on other teams, but so would Ginn and Booker. He wouldve made those two look like studs last year. Camarillo wouldve been Scott Schwedes all over again. Hagan wouldve been Freddy Banks making big plays left and right. Its almost impossible not to catch Marino passes when they will implant themselves in your body if they dont hit your hands. Marino was so money.
This is why people sleep on how important QB is, and exactly how poorly Beck played the position last year. They want to talk about the rest of the team and the negative effect it has on the QB play and that is true to a degree. However, they forget the CONVERSE effect. If you have a great QB your OL is twice as good. It takes pressure off them for one thing. They worry less about messing up because they are comfortable knowing should they make a mistake their QB will pick up their slack and make a play which will mask it to the usual fan.
They also wont be facing much 8 men in the box vs. the run because teams know better than that. No one will put 8 in the box vs. a good QB, even if you have Adrian Peterson at RB.
It takes pressure off the WRs because they know they just need to focus on running their route correctly and if they are open the ball is there for them to make a play. It greatly enhances the whole offense.
And when your QB is bad, guess what. All of the problems are compounded as we saw with John Beck last year. It has the opposite effect on the rest of the offense. Which probably explains the excitement and sigh of relief look on the players faces during that Buffalo game last year when the great Cleo Lemon came back into the huddle and John Beck was sent to the bench. Pretty bad sign if you ask me. Notice the offense responded IMMEDIATELY btw with a big bomb to Ginn.
When Beck was in there the OL had all the pressure in the world on them because the guy behind them couldnt make a play if they got beaten. The defense they faced did not fear at all getting burned, they could send pressure, stack the box, whatever they wanted to do really. The receivers for us had to work extra hard to get open, and then often werent rewarded when all their hard work accomplished its goal and they were open. Beck couldnt get them the ball.
And to finish this education on QBing and the effect a great player such as Marino has and conversely a total garbage player like Beck has, the idea of a running game helps you D more than a good QB is kinda nonsense. Both of them help to keep the D fresh and off the field, not just the running game. If you have a QB who can make plays, guess what. It keeps the offense off the field. Guys are driving, making plays, moving the ball, and converting first downs. Especially 3rd and mediums or longs into firsts. That keeps your D on the bench resting as much as a strong running game does if not more so.
People always assume it isnt as good because they think of passing and quick scores or 50 yard bombs. That isnt always the case. Plus scoring and giving your defense a lead to work with definately helps. If you can get up multiple scores late in a game your D can pin its ears back and get after the QB. Not having the threat of a running game to face certainly helps out your D. Its like almost playing for Bellicheat and knowing the other teams offensive plays and what they are running each time. So a great QB helps your defense rest and puts them in better situations more so than a good running game. Realize that.
Thats why I wanted Ryan so much but, oh well. Long should be a good player. LT just isnt as important and never will be as important as your QB.
And Greyboy is dead on and knows what he is talking about. And quit sleeping on Marino and realize it would be almost impossible to have a losing season with him at QB and definately not 1-15 no matter who the rest of the team is. As long as they are NFL players, youre gonna win more than you lose with Marino at QB.
With Beck on the other hand, youre gonna struggle to score, struggle to even move the ball, and every other player on your team including the defense, but especially the offense is going to look worse than they are as a result of having him on the field. If you dont believe me, get one of the players high or drunk and ask them with no camera or mic around and see what happens. Or give them truth syrm or whatever. Its true people. Greyboy knows whats up.
