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The Case for Overpaying Gesicki

Sirspud

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Geiscki was a beast today. The only thing that stopped him was the Dolphins play calling. But, fandom aside, we've got to be honest about what Geiscki is. He's really scarcely a tight end. He can't block the position. He's a slot receiver that is slow and spends several games in a row being a non-factor because he just can't separate. But, his catch radius is magnificent, and he plays with an energy that can't be understated when trying to find offensive energy.

Gesicki is going to earn a lot of money in free agency, not necessarily because of the numbers he produces at the end of the year when compared with the position he really plays, which is slot receiver. But there's a lot of offenses in the league that can regularly provide their receiver's space who are gonna look at a guy like that and imagine the thing's he'll do in their offense. He reminds me a bit of Jimmy Graham, who was one of the dominant players in the league in New Orleans (the right offensive environment) but just didn't really impact the game that much when on other teams (even though Seattle was far from a pushover offensively, either). Somebody out there will pay Gesicki money to be their Jimmy Graham, and unless Gesicki is foolish or sentimental, he wouldn't settle for a huge hometown discount (not that we've ever heard of one being offered to begin with).

He reminds me a lot of Charles Clay - Clay was a homegrown TE made good. I remembered when we drafted him being talked about more of as a fullback, but we only saw a sprinkling of plays here and there, including a season ending injury I believe his second year. But after that horrific injury to Keller he was unexpectedly thrust into a starting TE role, and he thrived, succeeding with a natural feel for finding open space and just being a lumbering giant when it came to YAC. When it came time for FA the money there for him was just far more than what he was worth. We wanted to keep him, but not at frontline money because he had limitations. And he really didn't play into his contract, which became an albatross for the Bills. Gesicki is a better player, but is still a limited player who will get overpaid.

In another thread I mentioned that the Dolphins biggest problem hasn't necessarily been that we have drafted well in the last twenty years, part of it is that we haven't retained and built around the guys who have become players when we've drafted then. It got me thinking about players like Jarvis Landry and Olivier Vernon - these guys were good players, not do all players, but good players. When it was time to talk about a second contract for these guys it was all about what they couldn't do. Hey, maybe neither one of these guys, or any other player we've let go, have lived up to what they signed that second contract for, but at the end of the day, we told these home grown Dolphins they weren't good enough for our money - and then we went out and spent the same amount of money on mediocre or over the hill players at the same position. We signed Mario Williams, who didn't even make it to the end of his first season with the Dolphins, after Vernon, in addition to other mediocre guys I can't even remember - suffice to say they didn't last too long either. Jarvis was too expensive, but we were more than happy to spend money on Amendola (lol), Albert Wilson (less catches his entire Dolphins career than a single Jarvis season) Kenny Stills (a guy whose specialty was making you feel like you had 0 receivers in games he was playing) etc.

Not necessarily at the same position, but how many dollars in dead money are we spending on bad or mediocre players right now? Guys who aren't even on the team? Yeah, we may waste a ton of money on Gesicki, but we've waste so much money on players that have done such a minimal amount of things for the actual Dolphins. Maybe, instead of seeing Gesicki join the list of Dolphin draftees that could play in this league, but weren't long-term members of the team, we could actually waste money on one of our own.
 
But there's a lot of offenses in the league that can regularly provide their receiver's space who are gonna look at a guy like that and imagine the thing's he'll do in their offense.
This is why they should keep him (but don't break the bank for him). Miami's defense gives up a lot of passing yards to wide open receivers, and I think it's because decent OCs are able to scheme open those receivers (and Miami's pass defense isn't very good). Gesicki has great hands, but doesn't get much separation or yards after catch. Just imagine what he could do if Miami had a competent OC who could scheme him open. I think he had some space on a bunch of passes today, but that's rare and it was against an 0-5 defense. Usually, he sometimes disappears in games and it could be because Miami's OC(s) can't figure out how to get him in space against good defenses.
 
This is why they should keep him (but don't break the bank for him). Miami's defense gives up a lot of passing yards to wide open receivers, and I think it's because decent OCs are able to scheme open those receivers (and Miami's pass defense isn't very good). Gesicki has great hands, but doesn't get much separation or yards after catch. Just imagine what he could do if Miami had a competent OC who could scheme him open. I think he had some space on a bunch of passes today, but that's rare and it was against an 0-5 defense. Usually, he sometimes disappears in games and it could be because Miami's OC(s) can't figure out how to get him in space against good defenses.
In Miami its a combination of a lot of things. We're usually running an offense on training wheels because of worst in the league pass blocking, last year we force started a rookie QB when we didn't need to, and we basically haven't fielded an offense with more than one NFL capable receiver besides him healthy and playing for any sustained stretch.

He's not a guy who creates things when the team can be a focal point, and when the team just wants to go max protect he's not one of the TE's you throw on the line. He'll be overpaid making the money of a #1 option but I've no doubt he'll produce well on a team where he is a component of an already successful passing game.
 
Gesecki is a luxury the Dolphins can't afford. Organizationally the Dolphins are in a worst spot than the Texans. They should be in complete teardown mode. They should end up with a top 5 pick this year and someone else owns it. They need a new GM and coach. Unless they magically get great in a year or two, it would be a complete waste to lock up a catching TE when there are so many other positions at greater need and importance.
 
Gesecki is a luxury the Dolphins can't afford. Organizationally the Dolphins are in a worst spot than the Texans. They should be in complete teardown mode. They should end up with a top 5 pick this year and someone else owns it. They need a new GM and coach. Unless they magically get great in a year or two, it would be a complete waste to lock up a catching TE when there are so many other positions at greater need.
If you are going to tear down a team, you still are going to have positions where you are paying money. My money goes to the guy who can catch passes and stays on the field....by default, that's him. We sure as hell aren't going to help out our quarterbacks by giving them zero weapons.
 
If you are going to tear down a team, you still are going to have positions where you are paying money. My money goes to the guy who can catch passes and stays on the field....by default, that's him. We sure as hell aren't going to help out our quarterbacks by giving them zero weapons.
When you look at positional value, TE is pretty low.

If I'm rebuilding a team, I'd focus higher valued positions first, and some of those positions the Dolphins need multiple.

Position2020 WAR
QB53.3
CB26.9
S25.3
WR21.0
LB9.86
EDGE7.46
T6.00
TE5.37
G4.89
DI4.31
HB2.99
C2.53

 
Hes turned up for one game this season. One. Today. He looked great. I rate him. He's a weapon. But where has he been before this game? Play calling? Scheme?
I blame coaching and not using him. Last time we had a legit TE his name was Jackson. If they let Gesicki go then add him to the list of talent gone. He's not being utilised.
 
I kinda disagree. He had a catch and run late in this game in which he elected to simply go out of bounds instead of challenging the last (smaller) man on the field in front of him.

That sums up Gesicki for me in a way that nothing else can. He's an athlete, not a football player. His compete level sucks.
 
Team needs to follow the Rams plan. Forget stupid picks, sign already good players. We suck at picks.
 
Gesecki is a luxury the Dolphins can't afford. Organizationally the Dolphins are in a worst spot than the Texans. They should be in complete teardown mode. They should end up with a top 5 pick this year and someone else owns it. They need a new GM and coach. Unless they magically get great in a year or two, it would be a complete waste to lock up a catching TE when there are so many other positions at greater need and importance.
What makes you believe they will be any better rebuilding next time if they decide to let their few good players just walk in free agency. In that case they at best would get a third round pick for Gesicki. Name a third round pick now on the Dolphins that is more important and better than Gesicki .

It’s hard for me to see how your leading receiver is a luxury you can’t afford. To me he’s a player you sign and build around when the new regime takes over.
 
Gesicki is a good player, he’s a player that has gotten better every single year. There are so many teams who don’t have good TEs/BigSlots whatever you wanna call them. There is NO way you let him leave in free agency if your a competent GM. We have 75 mill in cap space we will be signing significant Free agents. That means Gesicki wouldn’t net us a comp pick, at the very least you Tag and trade him, best case you get a fair extension worked out. We are way too bad of a team to let one of our best players leave for nothing
 
Geiscki was a beast today. The only thing that stopped him was the Dolphins play calling. But, fandom aside, we've got to be honest about what Geiscki is. He's really scarcely a tight end. He can't block the position. He's a slot receiver that is slow and spends several games in a row being a non-factor because he just can't separate. But, his catch radius is magnificent, and he plays with an energy that can't be understated when trying to find offensive energy.

Gesicki is going to earn a lot of money in free agency, not necessarily because of the numbers he produces at the end of the year when compared with the position he really plays, which is slot receiver. But there's a lot of offenses in the league that can regularly provide their receiver's space who are gonna look at a guy like that and imagine the thing's he'll do in their offense. He reminds me a bit of Jimmy Graham, who was one of the dominant players in the league in New Orleans (the right offensive environment) but just didn't really impact the game that much when on other teams (even though Seattle was far from a pushover offensively, either). Somebody out there will pay Gesicki money to be their Jimmy Graham, and unless Gesicki is foolish or sentimental, he wouldn't settle for a huge hometown discount (not that we've ever heard of one being offered to begin with).

He reminds me a lot of Charles Clay - Clay was a homegrown TE made good. I remembered when we drafted him being talked about more of as a fullback, but we only saw a sprinkling of plays here and there, including a season ending injury I believe his second year. But after that horrific injury to Keller he was unexpectedly thrust into a starting TE role, and he thrived, succeeding with a natural feel for finding open space and just being a lumbering giant when it came to YAC. When it came time for FA the money there for him was just far more than what he was worth. We wanted to keep him, but not at frontline money because he had limitations. And he really didn't play into his contract, which became an albatross for the Bills. Gesicki is a better player, but is still a limited player who will get overpaid.

In another thread I mentioned that the Dolphins biggest problem hasn't necessarily been that we have drafted well in the last twenty years, part of it is that we haven't retained and built around the guys who have become players when we've drafted then. It got me thinking about players like Jarvis Landry and Olivier Vernon - these guys were good players, not do all players, but good players. When it was time to talk about a second contract for these guys it was all about what they couldn't do. Hey, maybe neither one of these guys, or any other player we've let go, have lived up to what they signed that second contract for, but at the end of the day, we told these home grown Dolphins they weren't good enough for our money - and then we went out and spent the same amount of money on mediocre or over the hill players at the same position. We signed Mario Williams, who didn't even make it to the end of his first season with the Dolphins, after Vernon, in addition to other mediocre guys I can't even remember - suffice to say they didn't last too long either. Jarvis was too expensive, but we were more than happy to spend money on Amendola (lol), Albert Wilson (less catches his entire Dolphins career than a single Jarvis season) Kenny Stills (a guy whose specialty was making you feel like you had 0 receivers in games he was playing) etc.

Not necessarily at the same position, but how many dollars in dead money are we spending on bad or mediocre players right now? Guys who aren't even on the team? Yeah, we may waste a ton of money on Gesicki, but we've waste so much money on players that have done such a minimal amount of things for the actual Dolphins. Maybe, instead of seeing Gesicki join the list of Dolphin draftees that could play in this league, but weren't long-term members of the team, we could actually waste money on one of our own.
Enjoyed the writing in commentary, but not necessarily with all the content or the general sentiment…

Letting OV walk was a good call… Landry we should have kept, but again he got a bit overpaid and the fact that we used the money on **** replacements isn’t a good enough reason to overpay. How about having a GM not consistently pay for **** replacements?

I like Gesicki, and he’s going to get paid… but if we can get him for $10-11mil/yr with half of it guaranteed, you happily keep him.
 
When you look at positional value, TE is pretty low.

If I'm rebuilding a team, I'd focus higher valued positions first, and some of those positions the Dolphins need multiple.



Something about that chart just doesn't seem right. S is that much ahead of both Tackle and edge? Its 4x ahead of T in terms of WAR?
 
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