The Dolphins And Grier Can Learn From The Heat And Pat Riley! | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Dolphins And Grier Can Learn From The Heat And Pat Riley!

Good God dude you have A LOT of time on your hands...
 
daryl said:
I don’t think Grier is learning anything new at this point in his career. Sometimes a man just hits the limit of his capabilities and there’s nothing further he can do other than repeat the same patterns and make the same decisions.
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The Peter Principle theorizes that people in a firm will be promoted to a point where they are no longer qualified, leaving a company with incompetent employees in leadership roles.
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phinsforlife said:
The Heat just suspended their biggest star, Jimmy Butler, for 7 games, for conduct detrimental to the team, and they are going to ship him out of town.

Butler wanted a contract extension. Given his age, and declining play, the Heat smartly didn’t give him one. Butler started acted like a pill, and instead of rolling over and giving him what he wanted, the Heat did what is in the best interest of the team over the medium to long term, and told him no, and then suspended him when his behavior went south and was a negative for the team.

The Heat are a well run organization. They have a good owner. He smartly hired Pat Riley, and got out of the way. The owner let Riley hire the head coach. Because Riley knows what he is doing, he hired a great head coach, who would also do things the Riley way. Because the coach and GM are on the same page, they both have been here for a long time, and the team has been successful for a long time. They have won multiple championships, are always competitive, and they didn’t need to tank to stay good and win again.

The Heat also do not cave to every player that wants a new deal. Here is a list of aging superstars with declining skills that they have shipped out of town. Because the Heat do this, and continue to do this, they don’t end up with old players on bloated deals that are no longer that good, which ultimately makes them worse. Because the Heat are willing to take a strong stance, fewer in the way of players try to hold them up, because they know how it is going to go: Riley has never been afraid to say no to star players or walk away from them when he doesn't want to pay them. Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Dwyane Wade all left to sign elsewhere at various points. He traded Shaquille O'Neal and Shawn Marion, among others, when he wanted to pivot the franchise. Now Butler will be on that list. Riley has always been able to acquire major talents, and that reputation has always emboldened him to play hardball. -- Windhorst

The Heat also overcome the challenges of being in Miami by running a tough, no-nonsense organization. They practice harder than other teams, and they play harder than other teams. They wear their opponents down on the floor. This is rare in basketball. The NBA is not a league of toughness. The Heat are well known for how they do things.

Two years ago, they got to the NBA finals, again. They beat a Celtics team that was much better than them, on paper. Computer simulations told you the Heat should have been swept in 4 games. But they out-toughed the Celtics on their way to victory. This never, ever happens in the modern NBA. 99% of the time, in the NBA, it is all about talent, on paper. It is a very different sport than football. Yet the Heat continually over-achieve, because they out train, out practice, and out tough other teams on the floor. The Heat have also been able to beat good teams on the road. They finished the Celts off on the road last year. The Heat, even though they are named the Heat, can also beat good teams, on the road, in the cold (just kidding). But you know what, if basketball was played outside, the Heat would find a way to compete in the cold.

The Dolphins are the exact opposite, in every regard, and we know the relative results the two organizations have produced:

-Ross has never hired a strong GM and gotten out of the way.
-The GM is never the one independently making the head coach decision, in fact several of our GMs have been saddled with coaches they didn’t hire.
-We roll over and pay almost every player including the old ones, and because we have a reputation for doing that, players continue to try to hold us up. These deals almost never turn out well. This year we did Tyreek, Ramsey, and Armstead. Interestingly, the LA Rams, that are well run, did the Riley move on Ramsey two years ago. Then we supplemented that with Tua (who from a health perspective seems closer to 80 than 26), and Waddle as well. And then there was the whole OBJ fiasco, fits the mold, washed up former superstar that nobody else wants (and is now still out of the league), perfect for Grier and the Dolphins (OBJ of course skipped out on training camp and I guess we were fine with that too).
-Our training camp is like summer camp (and our players still get hurt and miss games at above average rates anyway).
-We are a finesse team that plays soft and gets out physicalled all the time.
-We continually under achieve and are never good.

As a side note, Pat Riley probably knows nothing about football, and I would hire him as our GM in a second. Surround him with scouts and nerds that can do talent evaluation. Riley sets the culture, and makes the smart big picture decisions. How to run things, who to hire as a coach, pay or not pay the player, or trade him. If you get these big picture things right, everything else will follow. In addition to better talent evaluation, the Dolphins need a cultural enema as well. They need more Pat Riley, and less Chris Grier! PS If Riley was our GM, I can guarantee this team would be entirely different, and for starters we would have a big nasty and physical OL.

Here is an interesting article about the Jimmy Butler situation, with Shaquille O’Neil’s take on what Riley and the Heat are like:

Shaq warns Jimmy Butler against fighting Pat Riley amid trade drama: "I know from personal experience you can’t bicker"

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/l...ent=BasketballNet/magazine/Basketball+Network
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I 100% agree with you and I am a big Heat fan. Being a Heat fan is like being a Steelers or ravens fan. You might not win it every year but nobody wants to see you in the playoffs.

We do need a leader of the organization like Pat Riley. In fact, we tried to do that when we hired Parcells. The problem was that Parcells wasn’t in it for the long term. We knew right away when he decided he wasn’t going to be the coach. He wanted to build this business where he would go team to team and fix their franchise. It worked the first year here but was not sustainable because he always had one foot out the door. As Pat Riley says “you’re either in or you’re out, there is no world in between.”
 
The dolphins don’t have the leadership that the Heat have. The Heat have been doing this for like 30 years with most of the same people making decisions. Until the dolphins have a clear cut leader of the franchise, this is going no where
 
If Arison would’ve tried to run off Riley for Jackson when Jackson was the hot name, the Heat would be experiencing very similar karma.

What we have on our hands is the curse of Shula, folks & the disgraceful way he was ran out of town by Huizenga (may he be burning in hell) for JJ.
 
Highzenga said:
I 100% agree with you and I am a big Heat fan. Being a Heat fan is like being a Steelers or ravens fan. You might not win it every year but nobody wants to see you in the playoffs.

We do need a leader of the organization like Pat Riley. In fact, we tried to do that when we hired Parcells. The problem was that Parcells wasn’t in it for the long term. We knew right away when he decided he wasn’t going to be the coach. He wanted to build this business where he would go team to team and fix their franchise. It worked the first year here but was not sustainable because he always had one foot out the door. As Pat Riley says “you’re either in or you’re out, there is no world in between.”
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great point re parcells. but correct if i am wrong, parcells was hired by your namesake, wayne huizenga. then ross bought the team, and parcells quickly had a falling out w ross, and left? ergo, parcells, being a capable football guy, somehow was instantly rubbed the wrong way by ross, and left for that reason as opposed to not being in it for the long term? that should have been a big red flag. i guess one could forgive ross some initial mistakes, but whatever he did to piss of parcells, i still do not think he has learned a thing, because he keeps making the same mistakes over and over
 
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The Dolphins (and Marlins) should absolutely look at the Heat, and now the Panthers, for some pointers on how to actually run a competent organization. The secret? That's right: Hire someone who is competent and put them in charge of things. The Heat found that thirty years ago with Pat Riley, and the Panthers found that five years ago with Bill Zito.

Chris Grier very clearly isn't that guy.
 
The Tannehills Have Eyes said:
The Heat Arena wasn't built over an Indian burial ground to be fair.
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Everything in this country is built on Indian burial ground.


Highzenga said:
The dolphins don’t have the leadership that the Heat have. The Heat have been doing this for like 30 years with most of the same people making decisions. Until the dolphins have a clear cut leader of the franchise, this is going no where
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As I said in the other thread, 'leadership' is very simple: it's having the right leader.

Chris Grier isn't that guy. I know I beat that horse to death, but it's the simple truth. Nobody, not one person on the planet, will argue that Pat Riley isn't a GREAT leader and basketball manager. It was evident from the beginning that the Heat made a fantastic hire. It has never been evident to anyone with a pulse that Chris Grier is a great leader and football manager.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Everything in this country is built on Indian burial ground.




As I said in the other thread, 'leadership' is very simple: it's having the right leader.

Chris Grier isn't that guy. I know I beat that horse to death, but it's the simple truth. Nobody, not one person on the planet, will argue that Pat Riley isn't a GREAT leader and basketball manager. It was evident from the beginning that the Heat made a fantastic hire. It has never been evident to anyone with a pulse that Chris Grier is a great leader and football manager.
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Grier just delegates to the coach
 
phinsforlife said:
great point re parcells. but correct if i am wrong, parcells was hired by your namesake, wayne huizenga. then ross bought the team, and parcells quickly had a falling out w ross, and left? ergo, parcells, being a capable football guy, somehow was instantly rubbed the wrong way by ross, and left for that reason as opposed to not being in it for the long termh? that should have been a big red flag. i guess one could forgive ross some initial mistakes, but whatever he did to piss of parcells, i still do not think he has learned a thing, because he keeps making the same mistakes over and over
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Yes Parcells was hired by huizenga. Say what you will about him but Wayne would get the big names. People respected Wayne.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
The Dolphins (and Marlins) should absolutely look at the Heat, and now the Panthers, for some pointers on how to actually run a competent organization. The secret? That's right: Hire someone who is competent and put them in charge of things. The Heat found that thirty years ago with Pat Riley, and the Panthers found that five years ago with Bill Zito.

Chris Grier very clearly isn't that guy.
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great point re the panthers too.
 
Don’t hold me at gunpoint to the following as I’m very unsure of the point I’m about to make but I don’t think you can compare/contrast the 2 models the same way due to the importance of the draft.

Grier did a decent job in FA & trades AND we had plenty of draft capital for years.

We are lacking a foundation due to not being successful in the draft in addition to not retaining studs like Minkah & Wilkins & Van Ginkel or at the very least turning around & capitalizing GREATLY in trade for them.

How many years in a row were the Patriots choosing twice in the 1st round of the draft despite being perennial SB contenders? It seemed like every year they were trading away talent they drafted & grew for a profit in return of their investment.

Riley has drafted amazing talent but in the NBA how many guys do you have to hit on in order to build around? 1 HOF or 2 all-stars?

Ross has not been a terrible owner & Grier hasn’t not been a terrible GM it’s just that every move Ross has made I.e. flying to get Harbaugh, offering Flores a check to tank which we now know would’ve resulted in Burrows & getting into bed with Brady have all blown up in his face & the one thing you need a GM to be REALLY good at, Grier has been GRUESOME bad at.

Plus, I know some of you think the idea of a curse is a joke- fine. But you can’t underplay the fact that our luck is for shiet.

You tell me Tua goes back to pass, gets sacked & today we are facing hip trouble & I tell you, “No shiet, Sherlock. You drafted a guy who dislocated his hip & fractured HIS PELVIS!”

But you tell me this kid gets sacked & throws up gangs signs becoming the poster boy for concussions in the NFL AND today he’s facing hip problems?

FoK an “A”, dude. Give me the name of the person responsible for taking a dump in the cereal of the Pigskin gods on behalf of the Miami Dolphins because that’s some pretty shietty luck.

Don’t forget that it wasn’t long ago that we put the deadliest pass offense on the field that we have seen since the likes of Marino & we hadn’t seen the ability to score from anywhere on the field since the likes of Ricky Williams.

We are in the thick of it now so it seems DISASTROUS but it wasn’t that long ago that most of us thought the pendulum was starting to swing for our momentum.

If you want to get technical, Grier hadn’t really proven he needed to get fired because even though it’s inexcusable how long he’s avoided the OL, they made chicken salad out of the musical chairs they played last year.

And, in good old fashion Miami Dolphins fortune turmoil, we are good enough to maybe make the playoffs with only beating crappy teams with a defensive coordinator who’s defense can’t tackle & yet still has had a solid year with an offense that throws the ball for negative 2 yards but has 1 of the most prolific passers in the league…

I mean, for the love of Jesus, Mary & Joseph- it’s enough to play Russian roulette with every round chambered.
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It might be easier to make decisions on aging players in basketball ... baseball...

A basketball team can win big with one star player ... meaning one player can turn an entire team around in the right situation ...

I agree with the overall attitude in terms of staying competitive and not allowing your team to spin in financial hell.
I think the "stance" is going to be a bit different in a game so reliant on teamwork in order to be successful.

I'm not even close to knowing if the salary cap situations are similar in each sport. :cheers:
 
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