The Draft Battle Royale: Finheaven Versus The Pundits! | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Draft Battle Royale: Finheaven Versus The Pundits!

Miami did what was needed to fill the holes on the roster. They attacked the strength of the draft which was the DT position; adding 3 quality players.

They addressed the need for a bigger more powerful RB. A player that can power his way to first downs on third and forth down, short yardage situations. As well as score TD's in goal line situations.

They addressed a need to get a quality OG. A guy nimble enough to play within the system being run, with a minimum learning curve.

They also addressed the need to get bigger and tougher in the trenches.

Miami drafted a truly unique player to develop as it's backup QB. A kid with tons of big game experience.

And to top it off they went into UDFA with a plan to attack the other roster short comings. Addressing the need to find bigger more physical WR's, DB's who offer upside to challenge for roster spots and beyond; and a TE who offers a well rounded skillset. A skillset that makes him a potential UDFA gem and a player who appears, to be able to challenge for immediate playing time.

In my eyes, this was a Homerun draft, for Chris Grier and Mike McDaniel. I could care less about those TV talking heads think. To be honest, not every fan or professional draftnik will see eye to eye. But that's the fun part of the draft process. Count me on the side of the good guys.
I am not positive just because of two things….. Grier has never drafted a top Player at ANY position and Grier has wasted a lot of cap space and draft capital to compensate for not being able to draft top talent. Thus far Grier is BAD.
 
I will say in the case of Sanders, Kiper has a grudge for lack of a better term. I think for Kiper it was personal, more than objective, in the case of Sanders (not in the case of his view on the Dolphins draft). Kiper seems to be a total narcissist. He had Sanders graded highly, and was on record that he expected Sanders to go high. I think even third to the Giants. Which was stupid, because you knew he wasn't going high when he wasn't invited to the draft. Anyway, the whole thing was embarrassing to Kiper that he got it so wrong. So he kept pounding the table for someone to draft Sanders, to try to bail him out of his awful call. Bottom line, he got it wrong. It was stupid of him to think he could goad someone into taking the kid. Arrogant. And he handled himself terribly. Really embarrassed himself, and came off like a jerk and a baby. Sanders fell in the draft because teams did not like the combination of his skills and his attitude. I was on record before the draft saying I did NOT want him and I wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole, and that i did not understand the fascination with the kid.
Sanders was invited to the draft, he decided not to go.
 
I am not positive just because of two things….. Grier has never drafted a top Player at ANY position and Grier has wasted a lot of cap space and draft capital to compensate for not being able to draft top talent. Thus far Grier is BAD.

I mean what’s a top player? Top 5? Top 10?

I’d say Tunsil and Micah Fitzpatrick are top 5 players. Xavien Howard was top 5 for a good 3 year period.

I’d say Hunt and Wilkins are both top 10 players. Holland was a top 10 player probably 3 of his 4 years just was not a fit for weavers scheme.

Achane is a top 10 back.

Chop too early to tell but top 5 defensive player in that draft isn’t a bad start.

You have other great players like van ginkel/phillips/waddle/tua, Jackson is solid

For the most part in rounds 1 and 2 he pretty solid probably above average. With some guys like Tua and Phillips talent isn’t the issue and it’s more about injuries but I’d say he’s good at identifying early talent.

The later rounds aren’t great, not sure how off he is from average but generally 4-7 rounds are a pretty big crapshoot.

Don’t think his issue has been drafting. Nailed everything else in terms of we don’t retain our talent, we pay bad contracts on aging stars, we trade and don’t retain draft capital and previously we’ve ignored our trenches for skill players which it appears we have may of learned that doesn’t work.
 
I mean what’s a top player? Top 5? Top 10?

I’d say Tunsil and Micah Fitzpatrick are top 5 players. Xavien Howard was top 5 for a good 3 year period.

I’d say Hunt and Wilkins are both top 10 players. Holland was a top 10 player probably 3 of his 4 years just was not a fit for weavers scheme.

Achane is a top 10 back.

Chop too early to tell but top 5 defensive player in that draft isn’t a bad start.

You have other great players like van ginkel/phillips/waddle/tua, Jackson is solid

For the most part in rounds 1 and 2 he pretty solid probably above average. With some guys like Tua and Phillips talent isn’t the issue and it’s more about injuries but I’d say he’s good at identifying early talent.

The later rounds aren’t great, not sure how off he is from average but generally 4-7 rounds are a pretty big crapshoot.

Don’t think his issue has been drafting. Nailed everything else in terms of we don’t retain our talent, we pay bad contracts on aging stars, we trade and don’t retain draft capital and previously we’ve ignored our trenches for skill players which it appears we have may of learned that doesn’t work.
Put it this way. If I love this draft and I'm rooting for a tank season, that should tell you all you need to know about this draft 😆

We got two solid trench players for the next GM, were still bad enough to get a top 10 pick, which means McD and Grier SHOULD be fired or resigned after this season.

It's a win/win for me, but anyone looking at this offseason or draft through the lens of "building a contender for the 2025 season" should understand Grier didn't do nearly enough.
 
I view the network "journalists" as a bunch of entitled brats who compete with each other for clicks to enhance their careers. They have no vested interest in the individual teams only their pocketbooks. I also feel the the Finheaven members, while many are in disagreement, are switched on and in tune with the needs of this team and it's shortcomings. I too have a problem with the Fuller release and trading out of the #116 pick, could end up being a decent draft. I'm over the McCoach thingy.
 
I always have to preface it by, "I want Grier gone"... BUT..."if" the Fins get two legitimate Day 1 starters out of this draft in positions of major need, and a couple of rotational pieces, then it was a successful draft! I don't think you can argue with that, as much as most of us still want a regime change!
 

What was your favorite pick of the entire draft?​


Reid: Malaki Starks, S, Baltimore Ravens (No. 27 overall). Once again, the Ravens allowed the board to fall to them and simply took the best player available. Starks doesn't play a position of immediate need, but the Ravens don't bypass talent to reach for needs at certain positions. With the recent release of Marcus Williams, Starks could start right away at free safety and be another crucial performer for an already versatile secondary.
Pundit: Ravens took BPA because they don't chase needs.

Also Pundit: Player could start right-away and be a crucial performer.

?
 
I am not positive just because of two things….. Grier has never drafted a top Player at ANY position and Grier has wasted a lot of cap space and draft capital to compensate for not being able to draft top talent. Thus far Grier is BAD.
Maybe so, and I'm not on the Grier bandwagon. I just was trying to emphasize how I looked at the draft class as opposed to perhaps the draft pundits and TV types. My view is much different than those who don't like what Miami did in the draft. I'm not completely sold but I see the efforts of the Dolphins in attempting to fill voids.
 
I always have to preface it by, "I want Grier gone"... BUT..."if" the Fins get two legitimate Day 1 starters out of this draft in positions of major need, and a couple of rotational pieces, then it was a successful draft! I don't think you can argue with that, as much as most of us still want a regime change!
all fair. i wonder if people are not getting too carried away by this jonah guy at guard. being better than eichenberg does not make you good. it seems there are a few warts on the kid, which is why he was graded where he was. grant is definitely a big nasty, but jonah even though he is a big guy, seems to excel more at the quick stuff and is not really a brawler. sounds like he has some issues w footwork or something like that, and didnt do well at the senior bowl. we shall see how he turns out i guess, but it doesnt seem like a total layup that his is going to be great = it never is. if grier can trade up to draft the only OL in the history of notre dame to suck, grier can certainly trade up to draft the only samoan that sucks too!
 
all fair. i wonder if people are not getting too carried away by this jonah guy at guard. being better than eichenberg does not make you good. it seems there are a few warts on the kid, which is why he was graded where he was. grant is definitely a big nasty, but jonah even though he is a big guy, seems to excel more at the quick stuff and is not really a brawler. sounds like he has some issues w footwork or something like that, and didnt do well at the senior bowl. we shall see how he turns out i guess, but it doesnt seem like a total layup that his is going to be great = it never is. if grier can trade up to draft the only OL in the history of notre dame to suck, grier can certainly trade up to draft the only samoan that sucks too!
No dispute with what you said. Lets put it this way, if the kid cannot beat out Eichencrap then Fins are screwed.
 
Thank goodness more times then not, pundits are just as accurate as Fans, and for the record, I take what some here at Finheaven far more seriously then pundits and their popularity contest list of players that will determine whose draft they liked, and disliked.
 
Finheaven's view of the Dolphins draft was quite positive. 60% of people thought it was above average or great. See the survey results and comments within the thread (and carefully read the OP right after the survey as well if you didn't), many of which were over the moon happy with it: https://finheaven.com/threads/grading-the-dolphins-draft.387079/

The pundit's view (national and local), compiled by @Finsup1981, by and large was that the Dolphins draft was not very good. Mel Kiper had them ranked as the third worst draft in the entire NFL. Even one of the local pundits, Hal Habib from the Palm Beach post, panned the Dolphins, and the local guys are loathe to do that: https://finheaven.com/threads/full-draft-grades-and-reactions.387092/. Here is another one. Matt Miller from ESPN said we had the worst draft in the entire NFL: https://finheaven.com/threads/matt-miller-just-said-we-had-the-worst-draft-overall.387102/

Please avoid the "we won't know anything for three years" response. I disagree it takes three years, I think you often know in a year. But that is not the point either. We have a show to do today. Analyzing the draft is fun. You work with the information you have. That is what we have to go on now, of course things can change.

Where do people disagree with the pundits that were negative on the draft?

Were the pundits not high enough on the talents of the individual players the Dolphins took? Or was Finheaven too positive about the talents of the individuals we took? Do the draftnicks on Finheaven know more than the pundits, and have access to more tape, more college coaches, and more evaluators than the pundits do? Or are the pundits just complete and utter idiots with an agenda?

Were the pundits not high enough on how the Dolphins managed the board, who they took where, what they traded up and down to do, and the number of picks they made and where they ended up making them due to how they managed the board? Or was Finheaven too positive about these same issues?

Were the pundits not positive enough on the amount of needs that were filled? Or was Finheaven too positive? Do the pundits not have the ability to evaluate the Dolphins draft, because they are not familiar enough with the Dolphins and their issues and needs? If that is the case, why would they be more familiar with the other teams and their needs and be better able to evaluate other teams drafts than they can evaluate the Dolphins draft?

Now a small public service announcement.

Whether you like them or not, the pundits are the most objective evaluators of a teams draft. They also have access to the most information and they have the most time to analyze it. That does not mean they will be right. That is a different issue. But based on what we know now, they are the most objective view that there is. We are all fans of the team and have biases. The pundits could care less. They have to evaluate every teams draft. Some of the pundits probably have some bias, but on average, they are just trying to do their job and give you their view. They have no real axe to grind. Guys that are negative on the Dolphins draft this year have been very positive in the past.

Those of us that were not positive about the Dolphins draft are aligned with the pundits, who are the most objective data point that we have. We were not trolling, nor do we have some sort of agenda. We were just being objective, and funny enough, our objective view equaled the objective view of many of the national pundits.

Being a Dolphins fan does not mean you have to be positive about everything they do. I understand why fans view things through rose colored glasses, and I do not fault anyone for that. In fact, I wish I had a lot more of that in me. It would make being a Dolphins fan more fun. However, what I object to is that when someone's view is not positive, it is referred to as trolling, or agenda driven. It is not. We are just being objective (in most cases). The fact of the matter is, those that have not been positive have been right, for about 24 years running. As long as the views are respectfully and reasonably stated, it is not trolling. Go back to my OP in my thread about the draft. Read it. It is plainly and objectively stated in a straightforward and logical fashion. Many of the pundits, with no axe to grind, came out in the same place.

That does not mean I and they will be right. That does not mean the other opinion is wrong. We will find out over time. Hopefully, this go around the rose colored glasses crowd turns out right. I am rooting for you guys, and I will be happy to turn out wrong!

PS, this is what happens when you are smart about how you build your team. If you go into the draft without huge holes you need to fill out of pure desperation, you can take the BPA. And it is all circular over time, because taking the BPA is part of what puts you in a position to keep taking the BPA. Hit rate becomes much higher too when you are not forced to reach. This is why year after year, teams like the Ravens and the Eagles seem to have good drafts. Ravens are smart, they just sat where they were and let the player come to them - that also shows mastery of the board. The Eagles also picked last, and the pundits loved what they did. Sadly, Grier put us in a position where we had to make our draft picks out of desperation, and that included having to trade UP for a guard:

What was your favorite pick of the entire draft?​


Reid: Malaki Starks, S, Baltimore Ravens (No. 27 overall). Once again, the Ravens allowed the board to fall to them and simply took the best player available. Starks doesn't play a position of immediate need, but the Ravens don't bypass talent to reach for needs at certain positions. With the recent release of Marcus Williams, Starks could start right away at free safety and be another crucial performer for an already versatile secondary.
I think the MSM wanted us to take a big risky skill position player and forgot about the holes on this roster. I understand, they have 32 teams to track meanwhile we are zoomed in on the Phins.
 
I think the MSM wanted us to take a big risky skill position player and forgot about the holes on this roster. I understand, they have 32 teams to track meanwhile we are zoomed in on the Phins.
well you too wanted the TE, who was the clear BPA when we drafted. of course, that does not mean we made a bad decision, given our needs. however i hate being in the spot where you have to reach for a DT and a guard (and even trade up to do it). that is indicative of the decision making prior to the draft that put them in this position. good teams are constantly going BPA, which becomes circular, because that keeps them good, and they can keep drafting the BPA, and on and on
 
well you too wanted the TE, who was the clear BPA when we drafted. of course, that does not mean we made a bad decision, given our needs. however i hate being in the spot where you have to reach for a DT and a guard (and even trade up to do it). that is indicative of the decision making prior to the draft that put them in this position. good teams are constantly going BPA, which becomes circular, because that keeps them good, and they can keep drafting the BPA, and on and on

All you guys who wanted Warren thought he was TE1, and he wasn't even that. I'm not sure how you can say he was the clear BPA at our turn to draft.

I would say Jalon Walker is arguably a better player than Warren and he was picked after him.
 
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