The Ireland Mythology Index | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Ireland Mythology Index

jeff must go in order for the dolphins to get back to winning
 
Canadianfishfan said:
But this whole thread reminds me of what everyone has been saying, since I've joined this board. Get rid of the guy were have and it's going to suddenly get better. Well that hasn't worked either. It doesn't matter what player it is, or coach, or GM.

The teams that win have stability. That's all I know for sure.
Click to expand...

This is the exact same argument people had for keeping Sparano, and I don't see anybody bemoaning the move to replace him now. What should be especially disturbing to the Ireland supporters is almost nobody is defending him as being a great GM, the best his supporters can come up with at this point is "he's not good but we could do worse"

Ask yourself this: If Ireland is hired by the Jets next season, will that make you happy or worried?
 
roy_miami said:
This is the exact same argument people had for keeping Sparano, and I don't see anybody bemoaning the move to replace him now. What should be especially disturbing to the Ireland supporters is almost nobody is defending him as being a great GM, the best his supporters can come up with at this point is "he's not good but we could do worse"

Ask yourself this: If Ireland is hired by the Jets next season, will that make you happy or worried?
Click to expand...

If you read some of my earlier posts, I wasn't defending anyone. I'm merely saying, change for change sake doesn't mean success. I used Ozzie Newsome in an earlier post to say he was hired by the ravens after their SB win, and haven't been back to the dance since. And he's regarded as the top GM in the business.

I wasn't high on Philbin. That was my personal opinion. He has won me over to an extent. But I don't see a lot of adjustment going on with the coaching staff. I don't necessarily see players put in the best position to win per se.

I know everyone wants Ireland gone. Because of the bad media rap. Truth be told, Miami has been in the cross hairs of the media for years. I was just on NFL.com where there isn't one mention of the dolphins on the main page. 3 weeks ago there were several stories. Even one about Ireland perhaps not being so bad. Lose a few games...

I don't care if Ireland gets fired or not. All I know for sure, that whoever is leading us through the draft next year, is not going to get a pass on credentials, or reputation. In my eyes, they better deliver 2 to 3 game changers on this team. Not just once, but through several moves and years.

I can see a landscape of work with Ireland here. We've been a front office revolving door. I just want to see someone come in, and prove their worth, by not one, but several years of quality eveluation and free agency pickups, and drafting capabilities.

Like coaching, it's a crap shoot.
 
good post mate. One name that you missed on potential GM candidates who should be one every team's list, but never gets mentioned, is Omar Khan from Pittsburgh. His background is in salary and has been their chief contract negotiator since 2001. What's impressive about that is he'll be only 36 in February.

Now to go even further into Khan, he's the guy Bill Cowher has told every team whose asked him to become their coach that he wants them to hire Khan as GM.
 
You mentioned at the bottom of that terrific and epic post a couple of things that I might be able to help clarify on.

1. You said Jeff Ireland "may or may not" have been in the room during the Harbaugh fiasco. That's a verified fact that he was in the room during the meetings. What his role was may be up for argument but it is a verified fact he was there.

2. On that subject, Michael Lombardi (who has been and remains to this day close friends with Jim Harbaugh) directly attributed Harbaugh's unease with the Miami Dolphins in their bid for him to Steve Ross "bringing the wrong person in the room with him" (referring to Jeff Ireland). That's a direct quote. It was on the radio. Harbaugh had a relationship with Trent Baalke and was comfortable with him, he had no relationship with Jeff Ireland and was not comfortable with him.

3. One area not really expounded upon much in your post is the players that were cut by the Dolphins and went on to be successful elsewhere. Rob Ninkovich is one such player. Since the Dolphins cut him, he's taken over 2,000 snaps with the New England Patriots. Another is Donald Thomas, who has played over 500 snaps with the Patriots this year and has accumulated a +8.3 rating on PFF making him one 14th ranked guard in their system. Another is guard Evan Mathis who is now playing All Pro quality football for the Philadelphia Eagles. And finally there is Marcel Reese, who was signed as a UDFA and is now a standout fullback, pass catcher and ball carrier with the Oakland Raiders. There are others who have gone on to varying degrees of success, including OLB Erik Walden, RB Jalen Parmele, OC Samson Satele, OLB Quentin Groves, LB Tim Dobbins, FS Chris Crocker, WR Ted Ginn, WR Greg Camarillo, and CB Jason Allen. I'm trying to only include guys that were clearly not jettisoned for money reasons. Other guys like DE Vonnie Holliday, CB Andre Goodman, SS Yeremiah Bell, OLB Joey Porter, DT Kendall Langford, RB Ronnie Brown and TE David Martin and QB Chad Henne may have all gone to play with other teams, but all clearly were let go because the Dolphins didn't view them to be financial worth continuing on with. But the other guys weren't financial decisions, the Dolphins just decided they weren't talented enough to be on the team.

4. Along the "who did what" lines, Armando Salguero went on record with three points of interest. One was that Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells only ever disagreed on a player once or twice. Another was that Parcells allowed Jeff Ireland totally free rein in the 2009 NFL Draft but decided to get back involved more in the 2010 NFL Draft. Another is that Jeff Ireland was as much or more on board with Pat White as anyone else in the organization, but that it was a total team screwup because there wasn't a single person not on board with it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nice write up. I am not really for or against letting Jeff go. The one thing I will say is that you MUST have someone in place before you fire Ireland.

DRAFT: We have 10 players still on the team from the last two drafts, (not counting this year where we have 7 more) and ALL of the last 3 draft classes are still in the league. WOW that is impressive. I doubt there are many GMs that can match that record. I loved the part where you say all teams want to build through the draft, then prove they really aren't commited to it because they turn around and trade all their draft picks away. Ireland hasn't done that. He understands with the new CBA how much MORE valueable draft picks are now than they were before.

SIGNINGS: There are some great finds and good deals, not to mention all the trades that WEREN'T made that would have been disasters, Flynn, Manning, Jeff Fisher, Orton, Atogwe, Braylon Edwards, and many others. Again your post is pretty ineffective without the body of work from 32 other GMs to compare. The one thing we know is that you are naturally going to have more misses than hits even if you are the best GM in history. It is just the nature of the beast.

HOLDOUTS: This is a VERY big positive for Ireland. It shows he is putting the team first, even ahead of his own interest. Being willing to push the envelope with RT, even when some were saying he was in danger of losing his job, shows that he has Ross's back. He is commited to doing what is best for the team, and not willing to sacrifice the future for an easier deal today. He was one of only a few GMs smart enough to include the extra language, and although he didn't get 100% of what he wanted, he was willing to get a better deal than most of the other 1st rders in RTs area. His willingness to push for the best deal possible is why we are one of the teams with the most cap space heading into the off season.

COACHING: There were many "sources" saying many different things, and unless you or I was in the room with them we will never know who wanted who. But here is a few things we DO know. Either Ross is a baldfaced liar or it was Ireland's decision to make. Ross said this several times before and after the hiring of Philbin. Obviously a lot of misinformation was being giving out by all parties involved, but if Ross went over Ireland's head and absolutely went a different directiion than what Jeff advised, then you can bet we had better keep Jeff because no GM worth 5 cents is going to work for someone like that. I wasn't crazy about the hiring of Philbin, and to this day would have rather had Jeff Fisher, but until I have some better proof than some wanna be reporters guess at the truth with no more information that a magic 8 ball, I will continue to believe what both Ross and Ireland have said repeatedly and that is that it was Jeff who brought in Philbin not Ross. And that goes the same if Philbin does or DOESN'T workout.

I do find in interesting that you say we can't pick and choose which events we can blame on Ireland and then you yourself do that very thing, by quoting "league sources" that were saying Ross was the one not wanting Orton, when Ireland himself came out and said he was not a great fit for what we were doing.

One thing you have to keep in mind, is if Ross is behind the scences as you indicate and pulling all the good decisions and not letting Ireland make them, then there is NO WAY Ross can justify firing him. If Ross is making all the decisions then all he is looking for is a patsy and Jeff will NEVER get fired.

I was probably leaning towards wanting to get rid of Ireland at the end of the year, but after reading your post I think you have changed my mind. Now I am starting to think we should keep him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ckparrothead said:
You mentioned at the bottom of that terrific and epic post a couple of things that I might be able to help clarify on.

1. You said Jeff Ireland "may or may not" have been in the room during the Harbaugh fiasco. That's a verified fact that he was in the room during the meetings. What his role was may be up for argument but it is a verified fact he was there.

2. On that subject, Michael Lombardi (who has been and remains to this day close friends with Jim Harbaugh) directly attributed Harbaugh's unease with the Miami Dolphins in their bid for him to Steve Ross "bringing the wrong person in the room with him" (referring to Jeff Ireland). That's a direct quote. It was on the radio. Harbaugh had a relationship with Trent Baalke and was comfortable with him, he had no relationship with Jeff Ireland and was not comfortable with him.

3. One area not really expounded upon much in your post is the players that were cut by the Dolphins and went on to be successful elsewhere. Rob Ninkovich is one such player. Since the Dolphins cut him, he's taken over 2,000 snaps with the New England Patriots. Another is Donald Thomas, who has played over 500 snaps with the Patriots this year and has accumulated a +8.3 rating on PFF making him one 14th ranked guard in their system. Another is guard Evan Mathis who is now playing All Pro quality football for the Philadelphia Eagles. And finally there is Marcel Reese, who was signed as a UDFA and is now a standout fullback, pass catcher and ball carrier with the Oakland Raiders. There are others who have gone on to varying degrees of success, including OLB Erik Walden, RB Jalen Parmele, OC Samson Satele, OLB Quentin Groves, LB Tim Dobbins, FS Chris Crocker, WR Ted Ginn, WR Greg Camarillo, and CB Jason Allen. I'm trying to only include guys that were clearly not jettisoned for money reasons. Other guys like DE Vonnie Holliday, CB Andre Goodman, SS Yeremiah Bell, OLB Joey Porter, DT Kendall Langford, RB Ronnie Brown and TE David Martin and QB Chad Henne may have all gone to play with other teams, but all clearly were let go because the Dolphins didn't view them to be financial worth continuing on with. But the other guys weren't financial decisions, the Dolphins just decided they weren't talented enough to be on the team.

4. Along the "who did what" lines, Armando Salguero went on record with three points of interest. One was that Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells only ever disagreed on a player once or twice. Another was that Parcells allowed Jeff Ireland totally free rein in the 2009 NFL Draft but decided to get back involved more in the 2010 NFL Draft. Another is that Jeff Ireland was as much or more on board with Pat White as anyone else in the organization, but that it was a total team screwup because there wasn't a single person not on board with it.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree on Goodman. It was well discussed how much they wanted to keep him, but the broncos gave him a HUGE deal and we didn't want to spend that type of money.

Good points though, there were alot of players let go that are now playing well elsewhere. Edmund Gates could be added to the list as well as
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Nice write up. I am not really for or against letting Jeff go. The one thing I will say is that you MUST have someone in place before you fire Ireland.

DRAFT: We have 10 players still on the team from the last two drafts, (not counting this year where we have 7 more) and ALL of the last 3 draft classes are still in the league. WOW that is impressive. I doubt there are many GMs that can match that record.
Click to expand...
You have to have someone in place before you fired Ireland? So we'll have two GMs for a day before we fire Ireland? Does that mean Ireland will conduct the interview for his replacement?

As for the last 3 draft classes all still being in the league...don't think so. If we're talking about the 2012, 2011 and 2010 drafts...B.J. Cunningham is a practice squad player...not in the NFL IMO...Julius Pruitt was a practice squad player for us for like 3 years and never saw the field...I wouldn't say he was in the league. A.J. Edds tore his ACL again and is on IR...probably won't be on the Colts squad next year and Chris McCoy never made a squad, practice or otherwise.

As for GMs that can match that record...since I recently did something on the draft.

Ozzie Newsome for the Ravens has every single player from the last 3 drafts still on the roster in Baltimore (23 players), considering how good that team is and how hard it would be to make the roster...that's extremely impressive.
There are also a large number of teams that have every player but one or two from the last 3 draft still in the NFL, it's actually pretty common for that short period of time.
 
Spesh said:
Purpose

The purpose of this post is to give an accurate account of Jeff Irelands time on this team. If any information is missing or incorrect it is not due to sinister motives. For quotes I try and always provide the link, for draft information I used NFL’s draft history page, for trades/free agents/hold outs I used a google search and got various sources. Everything else should be my opinion.

Drafts

The players that are underlined are those still on this team. The players whose names are bolded are currently free agents or out of the league. Those left alone are on other teams. I will not be doing either of those things for our latest draft class. Almost all of them should be on this team or practice squad. If they are not, it was a completely wasted draft pick.
Keep in mind, this list might be a bit imperfect as it is often difficult to track down players who are simply signed to fill out rosters. As well, I will not differentiate the quality of the players, as that is subjective. Some of who appear to be on teams are on practice squads or have only been signed to fill a roster spot after an injury. Regardless, they are on a team and that is all that is required.

2008:
1) (1[SUP]st[/SUP]) Jake Long. 2) (32[SUP]nd[/SUP]) Phillip Merling. 3) (57[SUP]th[/SUP]) Chad Henne. 3) (66[SUP]th[/SUP]) Kendall Langford. 4) (110[SUP]th[/SUP]) Shawn Murphy. 6) (176[SUP]th[/SUP]) Jalen Parmele. 6) (195[SUP]th[/SUP]) Donald Thomas. 6) (204[SUP]th[/SUP]) Lex Hilliard. 7) (245[SUP]th[/SUP]) Lionel Dotson

2009:
1) (25[SUP]th[/SUP]) Vontae Davis. 2) (44[SUP]th[/SUP]) Pat White. 2) (61[SUP]st[/SUP]) Sean Smith. 3) (87[SUP]th[/SUP]) Patrick Turner. 4) (108[SUP]th[/SUP]) Brian Hartline. 5) (161[SUP]st[/SUP]) John Nalbone. 5) (165[SUP]th[/SUP]) Chris Clemons. 6) (181[SUP]st[/SUP]) Andrew Gardner. 7) (214[SUP]th[/SUP]) J.D. Folsom

2010:
1) (28[SUP]th[/SUP]) Jared Odrick. 2) (40[SUP]th[/SUP]) Koa Misi. 3) (73[SUP]rd[/SUP]) John Jerry. 4) (119[SUP]th[/SUP]) A.J. Edds. 5) (145[SUP]th[/SUP]) Nolan Carroll. 5) (163[SUP]rd[/SUP]) Reshad Jones. 7) (212[SUP]th[/SUP]) Chris McCoy. 7) (252[SUP]nd[/SUP]) Austin Spitler

2011:
1) (15[SUP]th[/SUP]) Mike Pouncey. 2) (62[SUP]nd[/SUP]) Daniel Thomas. 4) (111[SUP]th[/SUP]) Edmond Gates. 6) (174[SUP]th[/SUP]) Charles Clay. 7) (231[SUP]st[/SUP]) Frank Kearse. 7) (235[SUP]th[/SUP]) Jimmy Wilson

2012:
1) (8[SUP]th[/SUP]) Ryan Tannehill. 2) (42[SUP]nd[/SUP]) Jonathan Martin. 3) (72[SUP]nd[/SUP]) Oliver Vernon. 3) (78[SUP]th[/SUP]) Michael Egnew. 4) (97[SUP]th[/SUP]) Lamar Miller. 5) (155[SUP]th[/SUP]) Josh Kaddu. 6) (183[SUP]rd[/SUP]) B.J. Cunningham. 7) (215[SUP]th[/SUP]) Kheeston Randall. 7) (227[SUP]th[/SUP]) Rishard Matthews

Of the 32 players drafted from 2008-2011, only 14 remain on our team. That does not take into account players such as Chris Clemons and Nolan Carroll who are recently struggling or Koa Misi who had to change positions to find any sort of success.

Free Agency and Trades

For this section I am only going to list those that have made noticeable impact or were fairly big or noteworthy signings and trades. Every team regularly rotates players at the bottom of the roster.

Earnest Wilford was signed in 2008 to a 4 year, $13 million contract with a $6 million signing bonus. He caught 3 passes and was released the following offseason after a failed attempt to convert him into a tight end.
Reggie Torbor was signed in 2008 to a 4 year, $14 million contract. He was released in 2010.
Justin Smiley was signed in 2008 to a 5 year, $25 million contract with $9 million guaranteed. He was traded to the Jaguars in 2010 for a conditional 7[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick.
Randy Starks was signed in 2008 to a 5 year, $21 million contract with $7 million guaranteed. He remains a very productive member of our team.
Chad Pennington was signed in 2008 to a 2 year, $11.5 million contract. He was a productive member of our team the first year before getting injured in his second year. He was resigned to a 1 year, $5.75 million conditional contract. The condition was on if he was starting, it would drop to $2.5 million as a backup. He has since retired.
Vernon Carey was resigned in 2009 to a 6 year, $42 million contract with $15 million guaranteed. He was forced to restructure his contract in 2011 and was released the following offseason.
Yeremiah Bell was resigned in 2009 to a 4 year, $20 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. He was a productive member of our team until being cut before the 2012 season.
Gibril Wilson was signed in 2009 to a 5 year, $27 million contract with $8 million guaranteed. He was released in 2010.
Jake Grove was signed in 2009 to a 5 year, $29 million contract with $14.5 million guaranteed. He was cut in 2010.
Cam Wake was signed in 2009 to a 4 year, $4 million contract. He remains a very productive member of our team.
Karlos Dansby was signed in 2010 to a 5 year, $43 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. He remains a productive member of our team.
Richie Incognito was signed in 2010 to a 1 year contract. He was resigned in 2011 to a 3 year contract worth roughly $12 million. He remains on this team.
Kevin Burnett was signed in 2011 to a 4 year, $20 million contract. He remains a productive member of our team.
Marc Colombo was signed in 2011 to a 1 year, $2 million contract. This was a unforgivable sin.
Paul Soliai was resigned in 2012 to a 2 year, $12 million contract.
David Garrard was signed in 2012 to a 1 year, incentive laden contract. He was released before the season began.
Jason Ferguson was acquired from Dallas in 2008 for a 6[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick. He was a productive member of our team until his retirement in 2010.
Anthony Fasano and Akin Ayodele were acquired in 2008 a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick. Fasano remains a productive member of our team while Ayodele was cut in 2010.
Jason Taylor was traded to the Washington Redskins in 2008 for a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and 6[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick.
Tony McDaniel was acquired from Jacksonville in 2009 for a 7[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick. He is still a member of our team.
Brandon Marshall was acquired from Denver in 2010 for two 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] round picks. He was given a 4 year, $47.5 million contract extension with $24 million guaranteed. He was traded in 2012 for two 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round picks.
Benny Sapp was acquired from the Vikings in 2010 for Greg Camarillo. Sapp was cut during the 2011 season.
Reggie Bush was acquired from the Saints in 2011 for Jonathan Amaya and a swap of 6[SUP]th[/SUP] round picks. He remains a productive member of our team.
Vontae Davis was traded to the Colts in 2012 for a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and 6[SUP]th[/SUP] round pick.

Of the 25 signings and trades I listed above 12 could be considered disasters. This list does not include the majority of the signings we made this offseason, which was an almost a complete failure. The only one who has “worked out” is Richard Marshall, who was recently put on Injury Reserve. If anyone was confused about why we didn’t have much cap room this past offseason, merely see the signings we made early in Irelands tenure.

Holdouts

Matt Roth- A very curious episode for our team. To this day, I still haven’t found much information on what exactly happened. As I recall it, Roth had been disappointed about his contract, and then skipped camp because of an illness, only for that illness to turn into a supposed groin injury. He was cut during the season.

Cam Wake- Wake did not attend the start of voluntary workouts this past offseason in protest. He was set to receive 650k for the final year of his contract. On May 6[SUP]th[/SUP] he received a 4 year, $49 million contract extension.

Ryan Tannehill- Tannehill missed the start of training camp over a contract dispute. The issue revolved around the concept of “offset language”. If Tannehill was cut and signed by another team, Miami did not want to pay the remainder of the original contract. For both sides the real issue revolved around the philosophical differences and not the actual money. Neither side wanted to set a precedent. The holdout lasted 2 days before Tannehill ended it out of a desire to return to practice. Miami successfully included the offset language but made Tannehill’s contract almost completely guaranteed so he would receive the vast majority of the money owed.

Coaching search



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/rumors-scoop-du-jour/dolphins-deciding-between-joe-philbin-mike-mccoy-115159762.html



http://www.dolphinstalk.com/2012/01/schefter-ross-wants-philbin-ireland.html



http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2012/01/at-4-pm-today-the-dolphins-will-introduce-joe-philbin-as-their-new-head-coach-and-one-assumes-theyll-explain-why-they-picke.html

Logical fallacies

Many on this forum stick to a few ill conceived notions. I’ll address a handful of them. Do note that I am not intentionally calling out specific posters, just general themes that currently exist.

-Our plan is to build through the draft.

Every team in the league plans to build through the draft. Every single one of them. Even those teams that hit free agency like a 16 year old teenager with her parents credit card declares it is building through the draft. Every once in awhile a team like the Jets and Eagles will pop up and spend hard, but that lasts for a season or two before the experiment fails and its back to the draft. Even those two examples aren’t particularly apt, the Jets hit free agency fairly hard after years of drafting high in the first round(sometimes multiple times in the first round) and the Eagles stock piled second round picks. I don’t expect people to take my declaration on faith alone, so here are three recent and vastly different examples:


http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/08/25/news-and-notes-eagles-vs-browns/


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/34645/shanahan-mailbag-skins-a-12-contender


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765613351/Panthers-GM-Hurney-fired-after-teams-1-5-start.html

One is a brand new owner. The other just traded away a shocking amount of picks on a single player. The final one is a general manager who had been trading away high future picks for lower present picks. All insisting they were or will be building through the draft.

-You can’t fire a general manager or else you will lose your coach.

I’ve already established that Ireland played, at best, little role in hiring Philbin. Yet, people will undoubtedly go on believing that Ross will fire his handpicked head coach after a single season. So, to that effect, here is a list of General Managers hired after the head coach was hired:

Rick Smith hired June 5, 2006. Gary Kubiak hired January 26, 2006.
Jerry Reese hired 2007. Tom Coughlin hired January 6, 2004.
Kevin Colbert hired 2000. Bill Cowher hired 1992.
Randy Mueller, hired June 6, 2005. Nick Saban hired December 25, 2004
Ozzie Newsome, hired November 22, 2002. Brian Billick hired January 19, 1999.
Ted Thompson, hired 2005. Mike Sherman hired 2000.

As you can see, some of the more talented and respected general managers (…oh and that other guy, Mueller) were hired after their coaches were on the team. Multiple general managers I listed are still on their respective teams and the coaches stayed for numerous years before any changes were made. From that list only Mike Sherman was fired after a single season though this was due to him accumulating one of the worst season records in franchise history. I chose those examples because of the diversity of situations. Every situation is different, which is my point. I find it hard to believe Ross would allow someone to fire his handpicked head coach.

-Picking and choosing which events Ireland is responsible for.

There isn’t much to say about this subject that hasn’t already been said. Many on this board feel the Pat White selection wasn’t Jeff Irelands fault. Many of those same people also make posts praising Ireland for signing Cameron Wake. I’m always amused by this, seeing as how both those events happened in the same offseason.

Jeff Ireland has held the title of General Manager since 2008. He has been paid accordingly for that position. If he can literally cash the checks of a general manager, he should be held accountable as general manager.

-We have to spend high draft picks on glaring holes.

Many feel that our draft picks are justified because we have a glaring hole on the roster. This has been the “logic” used when selecting centers and right tackles in the top two rounds. Like many emotional reactions to devastating news, this notion has flaws.

When Martin Mayhew drafted Ryan Broyles in the second round, many reporters and fans questioned the pick. After all, they had a glaring hole at cornerback and they had talented receivers. His response was merely pointing out that the team was strong at the wideout position today but it won’t be in the future. Nate Burleson is 31 years old and will surely start slowing down soon. In later interviews he and Jim Shwartz pointed out that talent rules their board and they grab what falls regardless of the position. One such interview is linked below. Bottom line is: The Lions successfully filled a hole before it was created.

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2012/4/28/2983199/2012-nfl-draft-ryan-broyles-lions-martin-mayhew-jim-schwartz

If another example is needed look no further than the 2011 draft. Going into the draft the Dallas Cowboys desperately needed offensive lineman. They were bleeding at that position and made it clear to everyone they would be addressing it. So, with the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] overall pick, they selected Tyron Smith. Two picks later the Houston Texans drafted the most talented player on their board: J.J. Watt. Smith has become a pretty good tackle. Watt has become one of the best players in the league. And a year later the Cowboys are now noticing they need defensive ends.

-Ireland killed the Orton trade.



http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7031691&wjb=

-Its Irelands job to get the players Philbin wants.

Jeff Ireland ultimately has a single job: to build a winning team. That’s it. As he isn’t also a coach the only way he can fulfill his job is to build a talented roster.

How he does that is fairly irrelevant. If he does it by spending hard in free agency, so be it. If he does it by trading away all his draft picks for a single talented player, so be it. If he does it by drafting huge lineman, so be it. If he does it by drafting players Philbin wants, so be it. The only thing that matters is building a winning roster. Which is not to say some methods aren’t superior to others, but that’s beside the point.

Coaches in this league have a high turnover rate. Every single season head coaching positions are open. I believe the average time span is now 2 years for head coaches. If your team has not improved during its second season, most don’t get a third. And that is just for head coaches. Position coaches and coordinators turn over even more, as they are often thrown under the bus by embattled head coaches. It’s simply not possible to reinvent our roster every single time we get a new coach. It’s much easier to merely adjust the playbook to the talent we have available to us.

Alternative Candidates

There are only 32 general manager jobs in the league. Only 32 jobs available that allow you to mold a franchise in your image. 32 jobs available that allow you to prove your way of team building is the correct way. 32 jobs available in which you are only answerable to the owner. Less, if you count teams such as Dallas and New England. I’m stressing this point to show that people will climb over each other for a chance to run a franchise. Last year, the Oakland general manager position was as bad as it gets. No cap, no draft picks, and a team filled with bad talent. Yet, even that didn’t scare off candidates. Many people threw their name into the hat including some who had secure jobs and could have waited a year for a better team to open its door.

Regardless, no matter how much this post makes sense, people will ignore it because I didn’t provide any alternatives. As the notion that one shouldn’t criticize without offering a solution is fair, I will indulge this point. Note that this isn’t some final list and if they walk into Ross’ office and start talking about how they need to spend first round picks on offensive lineman, I would have no problem with Ross’ showing them the door. As well, this list will continue to evolve as actions around the league continue to develop. The list is in descending order, from most preferred to most hesitant.

Russ Ball- the current Vice President of Football Administrations for the Green Bay Packers. Russ Ball is also in charge of Player Finance. In his current role he is responsible for negotiating player contracts and managing the salary cap. On top of what he would bring to the team, he also should have an established working relationship with Philbin.
Scot McCoughlan- the former general manager for the 49’ers. He was let go by the 49’ers for “personal reasons” but has been in the running for other general manager jobs since. He is currently working in Seattle’s front office. With the exception of 2 offensive lineman and Aldon Smith, McCoughlan built the majority of the 49’ers team that is enjoying so much recent success.
Brian Gaine- is our current Director of Player Personnel. He interviewed for the St. Louis Rams job last offseason and his name has been linked to various other general manager positions.
Brian Xanders- the former Denver Broncos general manager. He was let go after John Elway felt he had enough experience to handle fulltime general manager duty. Xanders worked for three different coaches while in Denver, counting his year as assistant general manager during Shanahan’s reign, with no apparent problems or conflicts. The only concern is he never had full control of roster moves and draft selections.

Going forward

It would not be an exaggeration to say this coming offseason is the most important in franchise history. We will have 5 picks in the first three rounds and anywhere from $50-$60 million in cap space available. Given our current record and upcoming schedule it’s also plausible that we will have a top 10 pick in the draft. While it’s obvious to everyone why those things are important, it is also worth mentioning how the rest of the league will be affected by our offseason. Virtually any misstep can help every other team in the league. Every good player we miss is one the other teams do not. Every bad contract we create will lead to less cap money in the future, allowing other teams to sign players we are potentially interested in.

I once read an article concerning the balance of power in the NFL and how it seems to shift every decade. The evidence was compelling. The 70’s and 00’s belonged to the AFC and the 80’s and 90’s belonged to the NFC. Those conferences usually had a higher number of top caliber teams and usually won the Superbowl at the end of the season. After a decade of dominance from the AFC, the balance seems to have shifted back towards the NFC.

I mention this not to depress people, but to inspire. The AFC is wide open. Teams such as Denver and New England will fall back to earth after their quarterbacks retire in the next couple seasons. Teams with an established franchise quarterback such as the Colts will still require another couple of years to fully rebuild. The ammunition we have this coming offseason presents us with an opportunity to take a drastic early lead on rebuilding. And, as we’ve seen time and again, once you get to the Superbowl anything can happen.

Conclusion

I left out a few noticeable subjects. Ireland has landed himself in hot water multiple times “off the field” since he has been here. Some free agents have walked out of his office and refused to sign with us. Ryan Clark identified Ireland as the biggest reason why he resigned with the Steelers. Peyton Manning refused to even step into a room with Ireland. Ireland might or might not have been physically present during the Harbaugh fiasco. Bobby Carpenter. Will Allen’s cutting and subsequent resigning after Benny Sapp was exposed. Some of the illogical beliefs that are just too farfetched.

In the end, I don’t particularly care if you want to fire Jeff Ireland or not. I simply made this list to show exactly what he has done (and not done) since becoming our general manager and how some of the outspoken assumptions are incorrect in the face of evidence. For myself, I believe it’s obvious what we should do with our current situation. Everyone else will have to make their own opinion. Hopefully this post helps.
Click to expand...


I appreciate the effort, but it was a very biased that lent nothing to perspective.

For instance, 14 out of 32 picks panning out is actually PRETTY GOOD. I don't know how you counted 12 free agent disasters.

Again I appreciate the effort, but Jeff Ireland has probably forgotten more talent evaluation than you'll ever know. So get over this biased view of the world where Ireland is the reason we are struggling.

Keep Ireland...Fire the idiots that don't recognize a good GM when they see one.
 
WesternNYDolfan said:
I appreciate the effort, but it was a very biased that lent nothing to perspective.

For instance, 14 out of 32 picks panning out is actually PRETTY GOOD. I don't know how you counted 12 free agent disasters.

Again I appreciate the effort, but Jeff Ireland has probably forgotten more talent evaluation than you'll ever know. So get over this biased view of the world where Ireland is the reason we are struggling.

Keep Ireland...Fire the idiots that don't recognize a good GM when they see one.
Click to expand...


Lol
 
datruth55 said:
You have to have someone in place before you fired Ireland? So we'll have two GMs for a day before we fire Ireland? Does that mean Ireland will conduct the interview for his replacement?

As for the last 3 draft classes all still being in the league...don't think so. If we're talking about the 2012, 2011 and 2010 drafts...B.J. Cunningham is a practice squad player...not in the NFL IMO...Julius Pruitt was a practice squad player for us for like 3 years and never saw the field...I wouldn't say he was in the league. A.J. Edds tore his ACL again and is on IR...probably won't be on the Colts squad next year and Chris McCoy never made a squad, practice or otherwise.

As for GMs that can match that record...since I recently did something on the draft.

Ozzie Newsome for the Ravens has every single player from the last 3 drafts still on the roster in Baltimore (23 players), considering how good that team is and how hard it would be to make the roster...that's extremely impressive.
There are also a large number of teams that have every player but one or two from the last 3 draft still in the NFL, it's actually pretty common for that short period of time.
Click to expand...
LOL true dat, let me clear up a little. "In place" is not to mean already hired, but someone lined up. My meaning was let's not fire Ireland and then HOPE to find someone else as good. As for "still in the league" I was going by the OP, he had a the ones OUT of the league in bold print. If they are getting a paycheck from an NFL team, they are "in the league".

And I stand by my statement that I doubt there are many GMs that can say that. You say Newsome can, (Sergio Kindle was waived on 10/20/12, and I don't see where any other team picked him up) so that would be 22 out of 23, still pretty impressive but how many others?? You say it is pretty common which makes me wonder how, since 50% of 6th and 7th rd draft picks don't make the roster their rookie year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets try another team, the giants. They are superbowl winners and are where we WANT to be. Using the 2010, 11, and 12 drafts (since that is where we know Ireland took control of the draft) lets compare. Over that period we had 23 picks and 18 are still on the team. The giants had 22 picks with 16 on the team. Ahh, but they were already good so of course not as many would stick, right?? So I decided to take a cross section and here they are.
AFC
Team- Picks- Still on the team
-Clev-27-----23-----85%
Tenn-25-----21-----84%
--KC--24-----19-----79%
-Mia-23---18----78%
--SD--21-----16-----76%
-Den--25-----19-----76%
Giant-22-----16-----72%
-Hou--25-----18-----72%
-Jets--18-----13-----72%
Jags--17-----12-----70%
--NE--28-----19-----67%
-Bills--27-----18-----66%
-Cin---27-----18-----66%
-Pitt---26-----17-----65%
Colts--23-----15-----65%
-Oak--23-----15-----65%



Getting tired of looking em all up but so far only 3 of 17 have a higher rate of draft picks still on the team Cle, Tenn, and KC.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
datruth55 said:
You have to have someone in place before you fired Ireland? So we'll have two GMs for a day before we fire Ireland? Does that mean Ireland will conduct the interview for his replacement?

As for the last 3 draft classes all still being in the league...don't think so. If we're talking about the 2012, 2011 and 2010 drafts...B.J. Cunningham is a practice squad player...not in the NFL IMO...Julius Pruitt was a practice squad player for us for like 3 years and never saw the field...I wouldn't say he was in the league. A.J. Edds tore his ACL again and is on IR...probably won't be on the Colts squad next year and Chris McCoy never made a squad, practice or otherwise.

As for GMs that can match that record...since I recently did something on the draft.

Ozzie Newsome for the Ravens has every single player from the last 3 drafts still on the roster in Baltimore (23 players), considering how good that team is and how hard it would be to make the roster...that's extremely impressive.
There are also a large number of teams that have every player but one or two from the last 3 draft still in the NFL, it's actually pretty common for that short period of time.
Click to expand...

REALLY ??? So you think he wouldn't have went up to every chic in every bar and started every conversation with, "yeah I am a player in the NFL" ?? Or something to that effect?? Ask HIM if he was in the NFL!!!! I have a feeling he would have to set you straight on that one. lol
 
Six years, 0 playoff appearances. Fire the man. It's not rocket science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom