The Saban Growth Spurt | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Saban Growth Spurt

Great read and very interesting. All the work that you put in is really appreciated, CK.
 
Thanks CK. This ranks up with some of your other great analytical posts of recent years. Keep up the good work of raising the level of quality of threads on this MB.
 
FiN.in.RI said:
Somebody explain to me why a thread like this has only 10 replies versus the one that says: "Yippie skippie! We have pics of Jay Fiedler as a jet" :shakeno:

Good work as always CK.
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Perhaps the reason is that responding to this post requires one to think.

Great post, CK. I think it might be a little early to draw absolute conclusions, but your data combined with Saban's (and others') statements about the type of players he likes certainly gives us insight into what to look for in the future.
 
This is very interesting stuff. I'm curious (but not enough to figure it out myself) to see what things look like factoring other attributes - speed, vertical, hands, etc.

If Saban acquires players believing that certain attributes are desirable and necessary in certain positions, it would be great to crack the code.
 
wow... very informative... size does matter
 
Thank you guys for the praise. I came across a list of about 150 guys that Spielman and Wannstedt had on the roster between 2003 and 2004 (mostly 04) in table form and it had all their heights and weights on it...so with yahoo sports now having very updated roster information I figured it was too easy to do to pass up doing it.

Size does indeed matter to Saban, something that I'm sure is a "duh" statement, but it's cool to see it in action. The team is getting bigger. I doubt they are getting faster, however.
 
ChambersWI said:
the bigger lbs give us more options on d.

IMO it just makes our D more durable. Defenses with small LBs tend to be very good at the start of games, but they get worse has the game goes on because they are wearing themselves out easily.
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Only when they're on the field 45+ minutes of a game due to our Offense sucking balls.
 
ckparrothead said:
Preface: I took a look at an old roster I found from early 2004 of guys that Wannstedt and Spielman had on the roster at some point (the list has 156 guys). A lot of the guys were perennial type training camp fodder. I figured, now that we have 16 undrafted free agents to go along with 6 drafted kids, and about 13 other free agent type pickups, we can start getting an idea of what Saban is doing to Miami's roster. All in all, positions are getting heavier by about 5 pounds a position (sometimes more), and getting taller as well.

Category....Saban Roster...WannSpiel Roster....Difference....Saban's Additions Only

Percentages
6'5" and Above …. 18.39% …. 8.97% …. + 9.42% …. 27.50%
6'3" to 6'4" .... …. 24.14% …. 28.21% …. - 4.07% …. 15.00%
6'2" players .... …. 16.09% …. 13.46% …. + 2.63% …. 25.00%
6'0" to 6'1" .... …. 22.99% …. 21.15% …. + 1.84% …. 22.50%
5'11" and Below …. 18.39% …. 26.92% …. - 8.53% …. 10.00%

Above 330 lbs. …. 1.15% …. 2.56% …. - 1.41% …. 2.50%
270 to 330 lbs. …. 29.89% …. 23.72% …. + 6.17% …. 32.50%
230 to 270 lbs. …. 24.14% …. 23.72% …. + 0.42% …. 27.50%
200 to 230 lbs. …. 27.59% …. 30.13% …. - 2.54% …. 22.50%
Below 200 lbs. …. 17.24% …. 18.59% …. - 1.35% …. 15.00%

Height Dimensions
DL Avg. Height …. 6040 …. 6030 …. + 1.00 inches …. 6043
LB Avg. Height …. 6009 …. 6003 …. + 0.50 inches …. 6016
DB Avg. Height …. 6000 …. 5110 …. + 0.90 inches …. 6005
OL Avg. Height …. 6043 …. 6042 …. + 0.10 inches …. 6055
QB Avg. Height …. 6030 …. 6023 …. + 0.70 inches …. 6025
TE Avg. Height …. 6033 …. 6036 …. - 0.30 inches …. 6033
WR Avg. Height …. 6000 …. 6003 …. - 0.30 inches …. 6000
RB Avg. Height …. 5112 …. 5112 …. No Change …. 5110

Weight Dimensions
DT Avg. Weight …. 306 …. 308 …. - 2 pounds …. 300
DE Avg. Weight …. 273 …. 266 …. + 7 pounds …. 278
LB Avg. Weight …. 237 …. 232 …. + 5 pounds …. 242
CB Avg. Weight …. 192 …. 187 …. + 5 pounds …. 194
S Avg. Weight …. 205 …. 203 …. + 2 pounds …. 206
OL Avg. Weight …. 319 …. 309 …. + 10 pounds …. 325
TE Avg. Weight …. 258 …. 253 …. + 5 pounds …. 260
WR Avg. Weight …. 200 …. 202 …. - 2 pounds …. 193
RB Avg. Weight …. 220 …. 215 …. + 5 pounds …. 222


1. Linebackers - Saban's additions are on average over an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than the linebackers during the Wannstedt/Spielman era. Average height has gone up only 0.5 inches due to holdovers from WannSpiel era. Also it should be noted that some players listed as DL, could end up playing some LB in Saban's system, which would mean his average linebacker height is even higher.

2. D-Linemen - Saban's additions at DL have made a drastic change to the average height of our defensive linemen. Already the average height has grown an inch, through additions and subtractions. Should be noted that some of the DEs could be used at linebacker in the future. The weight of DTs is actually dropping, while the weight of DEs is going up drastically with new addition DEs averaging 12 pounds heavier than WannSpiel era DEs.

3. D-Backs - Saban's additions at DB are about 1.5 inches on average larger than the DBs that have cycled through Miami's roster under the WannSpiel era. DB average height has risen almost a full inch, with holdovers from previous era, and both CB weight and S weight are going up.

4. Offensive Linemen - Saban has not done much with the offensive line, adding only four linemen. Three of those linemen have been tackles which skews the height and weight difference of his additions, but we may be seeing a trend in that Saban prefers to add tackles and turn them into guards (and even centers). The average height of the OL Saban has added has been over an inch taller and 16 pounds heavier than WannSpiel era OL, however since there are only four of them, average height has not changed much, while average weight has gone up 10 pounds.

5. Offensive Skill Positions - Saban's record on the other offensive skill positions is erratic, and we may actually be getting smaller at these positions. Through our moves so far, Saban has not shown any preference for taller WRs or RBs, and may even prefer smaller players at the positions. RB is getting heavier but staying the same height. Getting rid of Fiedler improved our average QB height, but with the addition of Brock Berlin and Gus Frerotte at QB, Saban has not shown much propensity to get taller at the position. Still, Wannstedt showed an overwhelming propensity to grab 6'2" QBs. Average Tight End height is going down as well, but the average TE weight is going up.
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This goes hand in hand with the BB / Saban ideology about football. BB once spoke at a Browns Backers of So Cal meeting (my brother attended) and he shared his feeling that he likes to build from inside the formation. He explained that what he meant by that was this...for Defense for example you build a great team by having great DT's, then MLB, then Safeties. So in other words, the inside positions on the Defense should be strong physically and talented. I always thought that was an interesting approach, because I have always wanted a strong outside as a priority. You ccan see by BB drafts that he has done just that with his heavy emphasis on drafting DL.
 
I really want to see mind based skill comparisions. One thing that nick said was that he wanted smarter players. I wonder what Woderlic test scores are for the different player positions that saban has brought in vs what wan/speil vs JJ? no idea where to find that dat a at though. Great read TY
 
Saban said.."younger... bigger...faster... tougher"... he meant it...
 
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