The State of our Guards

[spiketex]

Am I the only one worried about our guard situation? I mean we got Shelley Smith who has very limited experience (7 starts). We have a rookie Turner, who never played guard before and comes from a small school and small conference....there's got to be a learning curve there. Dallas Thomas was a train wreck in the preseason last year. Brenner flashed, but became a serious liability the more he played. Are we just hoping two starters rise from the ashes of all this inexperience?

What hasn't got a lot of attention is that we also picked up a new Offensive line coach, John Benton, who comes with 8 years coaching the O-line in the NFL, not a few years assisting Mike Sherman at Texas A & M, like Jim Turner. We have had a very significant upgrade in NFL coaching experience and someone who knows how to implement the ZBS and develop players for the system.
For the past 2 years we have had multiple poor fits for the ZBS because of our GMs emotional attachment to big lumbering cornfed guys like Parcells and Sparano loved (cough, John Jerry, cough McKinnie, cough Incognito, cough, etc). It was a fundamental mismatch of players to system but our GM thought he knew better - just make it work....
In a way, the whole J-mart bullying issue and investigation is a good thing in that it permits a proper cleaning out the O-line locker room and getting players and coaches that fit the system. The replacement of Ireland with Dennis Hickey permits the opportunity to get a GM who can actually work with the Head Coach to fix the problems.
The concerns you raise are real and maybe we are thin on Guard talent, but I'd be pretty optimistic that we now have a coach who knows how to fix it. I would also think that we may pick up an experienced veteran for some extra insurance.
Incidentally, don't be surprised if Shelley Smith is pretty good. There was competition for his services from other teams. He was in demand and that's a sign that the market had determined that he was ready for bigger responsibilities.

 

[Digital]

If we can't field a competent line with an HIGHLY paid former 1st round LT, 2 other 1st rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a few veterans; then we have far bigger issues to address (staff and coaching wise).

I agree wholeheartedly. This is a very expensive OL with 2 OT's that can't run block and 2 OG's with a lot of rough edges in pass pro. I'm worried.

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[JTC111]

I don't believe in guard.

 

[LDaniel7]

I agree wholeheartedly. This is a very expensive OL with 2 OT's that can't run block and 2 OG's with a lot of rough edges in pass pro. I'm worried.

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The good thing is that the talent is there. Talent even if rough will get better as the season goes along. It will take its lumps early but get better moving forward. Toward the end of the season, if everyone is healthy, it will be playing its best, most cohesive ball.

I'd much rather have rough talent (that fits the scheme) than an OL experienced but limited-in-talent and scheme. Such an OL increasingly plays worse, as its limitations are increasingly put on tape.

LD

 

[justdev7]

I think the biggest question for our guards is whether or not Dallas Thomas can hold a block. The guy can move and he has decent size. I just want to see him get his hands into a guy.

 

[twix2500]

Man we have too many question marks to really have any idea how our line is going to be. Four new starters, 3 have very little experience, Turner, Thomas and James. Hopefully they the cohesiveness with the OL developes quick, but we can not expect it too be quick. I am expecting the line to struggle for 4 weeks into the season and then start seeing improvement. So I am sure we are going to get a lot of complaints early on.

 

[z926538]

I seriously doubt they could be any worse than last year and both of our tackles were upgraded so that is going to make the entire line look better.

If you think things can't get any worse it is only because you lack imagination. After all, these are the Dolphins that we are talking about here.

 

[NRA]

billy turner, at some point in his career will be a pro bowl player. the nfl is flush with o-line players from "small" schools. way, way to much focus on that. he destroyed the "big school" competition, every time he faced them from k-state to the senior bowl.

i dont see how anyone can watch him play and not say he will be a success. and everyone acts like shelley is some 9 year journeyman who has all these weaknesses and is tapped out. this will be his fourth year and the 2 teams he was on before didnt offer him much. he has had a handful of starts. he has never started a camp with any future coached into him. he didnt play with the big boys in training camps and was basically treated as fodder as most underling types do. injuries to o-line got him thrown into the mix.

i dont think he is as raw as some think. he has all the tools and wants to learn. i think a full camp with coaches actually getting him ready to start and be around for awhile, playing with the starters will make him a much better looking player. being next to ju'wan james will help him as he is a plug and play rt and can pick up the stunts. another thing james excelled at.

shelley is not as big a concern for me as others, but, who knows. obviously benton likes the kid and everyone says how much they love him and what a better o-line coach he is than the one before.

i do not think the o-line signings are done. i feel some kind of trade is coming. just a hunch. this plethora of wr's hickey has brought in is incredible!! to many to get a fair look at everyone and way to many to keep around. could be a wr in some trade scenario either straight up or in part. and NO, its not mike wallace. even if there is no trade, there will be veteran guards available in the cuts towards camp end and i expect hickey will be watching the wire for seasoned guards or even tackles [our depth sucks].

there is a plan. the draft proved that. hickey and company know what an important year this is for the team and above all, tanny's future. there wont be any serious weak link on the line come opening day.

 

[BlueFin]

Smith played well when he got a chance by all acounts....The other spot is the bigger question mark.

We may still add a vet to the mix though and I am confident we'll be ok.

 

[WaxOn WaxOff]

Dallas Thomas was revoltingly bad from the plays I saw last preseason. That HAD to be a wake up call for him. If he didn't work his tail off to get better this offseason, he will have a very short NFL career. Last season he was given a pass. I expect to see him much improved this preseason, if not I would hope and expect they bring in an (expensive) vet as a stopgap for depth purposes.

 

[Super Duper]

I think the guard position will be as bad as many on here are making it out to be. We have issues here, but lots of potential and depth. Between Smith, Thomas, Turner, Brennan, and Garner we have 5 guys to compete for two spots. Competition will improve the guard play. Garner is serviceable and represents our floor. Turner, Thomas, and Smith all fit our scheme and have the ability to be plus guards in our system. I don't expect them to all get there, but they have the potential. I expect below average guard play to start the year, average guard play by mid season, and the potential for above average guard play as early as next year.

 

[Ruckus45]

Hartline could net us the star Guard we need

Does he have the cell number of a buddy of his that weighs 300lbs? Oh, do you mean trading a consistent and talented WR that we resigned just last year because he is a favorite target of our relatively inerperienced QB for a guard? Perhaps you think Hartline should bulk up?

Joking aside I think our Thomas, Smith, and Turner will do ther trick there and the FO addressed that need nicely. Young, cheap, and competitive. Thats a good combo for your OGs.

 

[EireTiger]

Does St. Louis run a zone blocking scheme?

In the case of Shelley Smith is it what you see in previous year highlights is what you get? Or is it a case where our zone blocking scheme might be a better fit for his skill set and we have reason to expect or hope for significant improvement?

 

[So Be]

For me our OG's are in a state of confusion. there appears to be some talent to be developed but, no one can tell me that what we have is better than Cog and Jerry based on what we know. Granted that the fits and Benton could well make a difference but, it still comes down to talent to work with. Benton's OL strugged last year.

 

[Gonzo]

For me our OG's are in a state of confusion. there appears to be some talent to be developed but, no one can tell me that what we have is better than Cog and Jerry based on what we know. Granted that the fits and Benton could well make a difference but, it still comes down to talent to work with. Benton's OL strugged last year.

I can. Incognito was always a turd and has always been a problem. Sure, individually he may have been decent, but he was one of the primary reasons that unit could never function as a whole. I'd rather have an average guard that can work well with the rest of the unit than a good guard who operates in his own little world. I have no reason to believe any of our current guards have that problem.