The strategy was right, the people involved in it were wrong... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The strategy was right, the people involved in it were wrong...

DANTODUPER

DANTODUPER

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I think its almost a sure thing that Grier and Flores will be gone after the season. IMO the strategy of having lots of high picks and cap room was the best one since I can remember. Thats how teams like the Bills, Rams, 49ers, Brown and other recent contenders were built. You can even get or almost get to the big game with an average to below average QB if you pick top players with your draft picks. Ravens, Jets (Sánchez) and 49ers did it.

However, next time I would repeat the process and learn from mistakes.

First we need a GM that excels in scouting, if we had one with the amount of draft picks we had, we would be contenders today.

Second we need a coach that can assemble a respetable coaching staff of good teachers and player developers. And if defensive minded he can hire a top OC or the opposite if offensive minded. Flores biggest mistake was letting go a very promising one. Innovative is what you need on offense, technically sound and with nasty mentallity on defense. We need a HC or OC that has a proven record of assembling a good OL. This OL failure cannot continue.

Finally we will need to get our franchise QB. Evaluate Tua this year. But even if he looks the part that shouldnt stop us from aquiring talent at QB position. If he doesnt look good we should think on Wilson, Watson or Rodgers. If he looks good then a draft pick with upside or someone like the young Washington QB. But we cannnot settle with a backup on Brissett level. If Tua is not ready, Wilson or Rodgers would make sense. And let him learn for a couple of years until he is ready.

I would not keep Flores just for the reason he is failing big time on defense this year, and that should be his strenght. If a defensive minded coach cant identify how to generarte pass rush and stop the run I want no part on him.

I loved the process, but hate the people involved on it. Only evaluation left is for Tua. Grier is awful and Flores has regresed.
 
I will give them the season. We are 3-2 with Tua at the helm you can’t convince me we aren’t. Brissett left so many plays to be made during the colts game in particular.

But if we go on to a losing season I’m on board. Time for an offensive coach like Brady or Daboll
 
I think it is a personnel issue more than coaching. Flores can and has upcoached a bunch of players on defense. Can you imagine if we actually had drafted or signed very good players like TJ Watt or Patrick Queen or Matt Judon?

The problem lies in that we have signed and drafted a bunch of mediocre players on both sides of the ball, but Flores is only able to positively coach those on defense. The scrubs on offense are just showing their true colors.

Had the GM noticed that we have scrubs for runningbacks, the oline, and QBs then maybe we wouldnt have spent 2 first round picks on a gimmick slot receiver. Chris Grier is what is sinking this ship.

The Rosen trade was awful and literally just a precursor of what was to come. Flores with a proven OC and a good GM could be a good formula still.
 
Agree for the most part

I would say that both Grier & Flo would have selected Herbert because of his health and potential not because of what we see 1.5 years

I believe Flo is fine with Tua as a persona no player but wouldn’t have wanted all the question marks going into 2020
 
nick1 said:
I will give them the season. We are 3-2 with Tua at the helm you can’t convince me we aren’t. Brissett left so many plays to be made during the colts game in particular.

But if we go on to a losing season I’m on board. Time for an offensive coach like Brady or Daboll
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Dont know if 3-2 but im sure we would look better on offense and we would won the Raiders game.
 
I’m also convinced the defense would look much better with a better offense to compliment
 
BennySwella said:
I think it is a personnel issue more than coaching. Flores can and has upcoached a bunch of players on defense. Can you imagine if we actually had drafted or signed very good players like TJ Watt or Patrick Queen or Matt Judon?

The problem lies in that we have signed and drafted a bunch of mediocre players on both sides of the ball, but Flores is only able to positively coach those on defense. The scrubs on offense are just showing their true colors.

Had the GM noticed that we have scrubs for runningbacks, the oline, and QBs then maybe we wouldnt have spent 2 first round picks on a gimmick slot receiver. Chris Grier is what is sinking this ship.

The Rosen trade was awful and literally just a precursor of what was to come. Flores with a proven OC and a good GM could be a good formula still.
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Agree with you and thats why I put a GM that thrives on scouting as a first priority.
 
Tearing the whole thing down was very risky. It's not like the 70s and 80s when you would have guys around for a long time. Miami tore it down to the bare bones, and the most important thing when doing this is to bring in guys who can play right away, because if you wait for them to "develop", they will be hitting free agency and the roster turnover will begin. It's really a four year window until lots of those guys we drafted will be looking to roll in FA, or get resigned. 5 years for the first rounders.
If you draft a developmental guy like Noah I and need him to develop, and it takes 2 years, well you are hamstringing your rebuild. If he busts, it's a total waste.
The plan seemed good, but that first year I think they really wasted a year and didn't bother to bolster the roster at all, waiting for the 2nd year. Then they drafted no plug and play players. It all leads to a botch job.
I think this rebuild was botched on multiple levels- from drafting developmental players early, to drafting guys who can't play, to signing no long term starters from that first year free agency pool, to making no true quality additions to the roster prior to 2019, other than Wilkins, Van Ginkel, and Gaskin...who are nice players but not stars.
And here we are 21 games into Tua's career and Miami doesn't know what they have.
I hate to pile on the gloom, but this is just how I see it.
 
Rev Kev said:
Agree for the most part

I would say that both Grier & Flo would have selected Herbert because of his health and potential not because of what we see 1.5 years

I believe Flo is fine with Tua as a persona no player but wouldn’t have wanted all the question marks going into 2020
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I agree. I think if we had good talent evaluators inside the organization we would have drafted way better, and we would have retained good players and landed good FAs. Everyone will miss but ours miss way more than the hit and they rarelly hit a home run.
 
nick1 said:
I’m also convinced the defense would look much better with a better offense to compliment
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Yes, this defense is bad. Whether it is a scheme thing or a players thing, we regrese a lot, and thats on Flores because he is in charge of scheme and player selections.
 
DANTODUPER said:
I think its almost a sure thing that Grier and Flores will be gone after the season. IMO the strategy of having lots of high picks and cap room was the best one since I can remember. Thats how teams like the Bills, Rams, 49ers, Brown and other recent contenders were built. You can even get or almost get to the big game with an average to below average QB if you pick top players with your draft picks. Ravens, Jets (Sánchez) and 49ers did it.

However, next time I would repeat the process and learn from mistakes.

First we need a GM that excels in scouting, if we had one with the amount of draft picks we had, we would be contenders today.

Second we need a coach that can assemble a respetable coaching staff of good teachers and player developers. And if defensive minded he can hire a top OC or the opposite if offensive minded. Flores biggest mistake was letting go a very promising one. Innovative is what you need on offense, technically sound and with nasty mentallity on defense. We need a HC or OC that has a proven record of assembling a good OL. This OL failure cannot continue.

Finally we will need to get our franchise QB. Evaluate Tua this year. But even if he looks the part that shouldnt stop us from aquiring talent at QB position. If he doesnt look good we should think on Wilson, Watson or Rodgers. If he looks good then a draft pick with upside or someone like the young Washington QB. But we cannnot settle with a backup on Brissett level. If Tua is not ready, Wilson or Rodgers would make sense. And let him learn for a couple of years until he is ready.

I would not keep Flores just for the reason he is failing big time on defense this year, and that should be his strenght. If a defensive minded coach cant identify how to generarte pass rush and stop the run I want no part on him.

I loved the process, but hate the people involved on it. Only evaluation left is for Tua. Grier is awful and Flores has regresed.
Click to expand...

Grier/ Flo will be back
 
Rick Cartman said:
If we miss the playoffs I don't see how you can fathomably bring Grier back from a merit based or fan base morale perspective.

The guy has been running the drafts now since 2016.
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We can use all the 'logic' and justifications we want. And I'm not saying I'm quite happy with either. But, my perspective in everything is 'what is most likely' - not what I want. They'll be back
 
The Dolphins need to go at least 8-4 over the next 12 games or Ross needs to replace both Grier and Flores. An 8-4 finish will at least give them a record over 500, even if they don’t make the playoffs. A sub 500 record in the third year of the rebuild is totally unacceptable IMO.

I don’t have much faith in the coaching staff Flores as assembled but they have 12 weeks to change my mind. I hope they do because I really hate seeing the Dolphins having to hire a new HC every 3-4 years.
 
DANTODUPER said:
I think its almost a sure thing that Grier and Flores will be gone after the season. IMO the strategy of having lots of high picks and cap room was the best one since I can remember. Thats how teams like the Bills, Rams, 49ers, Brown and other recent contenders were built. You can even get or almost get to the big game with an average to below average QB if you pick top players with your draft picks. Ravens, Jets (Sánchez) and 49ers did it.

However, next time I would repeat the process and learn from mistakes.

First we need a GM that excels in scouting, if we had one with the amount of draft picks we had, we would be contenders today.

Second we need a coach that can assemble a respetable coaching staff of good teachers and player developers. And if defensive minded he can hire a top OC or the opposite if offensive minded. Flores biggest mistake was letting go a very promising one. Innovative is what you need on offense, technically sound and with nasty mentallity on defense. We need a HC or OC that has a proven record of assembling a good OL. This OL failure cannot continue.

Finally we will need to get our franchise QB. Evaluate Tua this year. But even if he looks the part that shouldnt stop us from aquiring talent at QB position. If he doesnt look good we should think on Wilson, Watson or Rodgers. If he looks good then a draft pick with upside or someone like the young Washington QB. But we cannnot settle with a backup on Brissett level. If Tua is not ready, Wilson or Rodgers would make sense. And let him learn for a couple of years until he is ready.

I would not keep Flores just for the reason he is failing big time on defense this year, and that should be his strenght. If a defensive minded coach cant identify how to generarte pass rush and stop the run I want no part on him.

I loved the process, but hate the people involved on it. Only evaluation left is for Tua. Grier is awful and Flores has regresed.
Click to expand...
We did all of the right things, we're still young. The season is far from over.
 
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