Thoughts on 4-2-5 Defense

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I have long been a fan of going to a 4-2-5 base defense, but understand you've got to have the right personnel to make it work. You need to have athletic linebackers and at least one safety who is kind of a hybrid type who can play linebacker and cover.

The reason I bring up this topic is that the draft could set Miami up perfectly to go this route. The odds seem pretty good that Miles Jack or Jaylon Smith will be available at #8. Both are coming off injuries so that is a legitimate concern, but when healthy you can't find more athletic linebackers. In round 2, Su'a Cravens could be there filling the hybrid role.

The Dolphins could adjust to different offensive changes, without having to substitute. This alignment would match up well with the passing game of New England and hopefully still be strong enough to face physical run offenses.

Obviously, Miami would still need upgrades elsewhere but I like this as a start. Thoughts?

 

[MARINO1384]

I have long been a fan of going to a 4-2-5 base defense, but understand you've got to have the right personnel to make it work. You need to have athletic linebackers and at least one safety who is kind of a hybrid type who can play linebacker and cover.

The reason I bring up this topic is that the draft could set Miami up perfectly to go this route. The odds seem pretty good that Miles Jack or Jaylon Smith will be available at #8. Both are coming off injuries so that is a legitimate concern, but when healthy you can't find more athletic linebackers. In round 2, Su'a Cravens could be there filling the hybrid role.

The Dolphins could adjust to different offensive changes, without having to substitute. This alignment would match up well with the passing game of New England and hopefully still be strong enough to face physical run offenses.

Obviously, Miami would still need upgrades elsewhere but I like this as a start. Thoughts?

Problem is that we dont have the personal to play it. Our secondary is bad as it is which is looking like we need to get atleast 2 new starters if grimes returns and 3 if he doesnt. Playing a 4-2-5 would make the possibilty of needigg 5 new starters. Not to mention it is easier to find quality linebackerd than it is secondary. Asking for 4 new secondary players is a pretty steep task.

 

[Dr. Phin]

You would still need 5 good DB's. We don't have 3, and one of our two appears to be getting long-in-the-tooth.

Honestly, we don't have the personnel to play any defense at this point...

 

[AJ Duhe]

I understand how the 4-2-5 is different from a traditional nickel alignment, but I think there is a reason why many teams don't play with this alignment all the time. I think it becomes too easy for offenses to stick an extra offensive lineman, TE, or HB in the formation and completely dominate the line of scrimmage.

I think these packages work best in college where more teams are running spread systems but don't really change up their looks and personnel. In the NFL, teams can go from 4 wide spread looks in one series and change to jumbo packages in the next.

 

[Austin Tatious]

Good discussion point. I am taking it as in the base defense. I think it's more of a college defense. But it raises a point that I've been thinking about. Conventional wisdom at the NFL level is there are certain positions that are premium that require high draft picks, e.g., QB, LT, CB, WR. Others are less premium, e.g., OG, RB, etc. Well, with move tight ends and the speed of the game, I think the athletic linebackers are true impact or premium guys. I'm going against the grain and going to argue that LB absolutely is a spot I'd draft elite athleticism and speed and make it a central focus. Linebacker is a place where you can find difference makers compared to other teams. Look at what a Shazier does for Pittsburgh's defense with a lot of mediocre to sub par guys around him. You get blinding speed at LB and you get what the 4-2-5 is trying to do.

I wouldn't mind a couple of first round linebackers over the next few years and make it a core strength.

I'd also point out the early 70s Dolphin teams had Kuechenberg and Little at guard and Langer at center. The early 80s super bowl teams had Stephenson at center with Newman and Kuechenberg at guard. That's a staggering number of pro bowls at guard when we were winners. It's another spot we've got to make a strength.

 

[Dr. Phin]

I understand how the 4-2-5 is different from a traditional nickel alignment, but I think there is a reason why many teams don't play with this alignment all the time. I think it becomes too easy for offenses to stick an extra offensive lineman, TE, or HB in the formation and completely dominate the line of scrimmage.

I think these packages work best in college where more teams are running spread systems but don't really change up their looks and personnel. In the NFL, teams can go from 4 wide spread looks in one series and change to jumbo packages in the next.

If they go unbalanced an sub personnel...you sub personnel...

 

[dolpns13]

Better get some DBs that can tackle if you want 4-2-5, which right now we don't have aside from jones

 

[utahphinsfan]

I have long been a fan of going to a 4-2-5 base defense, but understand you've got to have the right personnel to make it work. You need to have athletic linebackers and at least one safety who is kind of a hybrid type who can play linebacker and cover.

The reason I bring up this topic is that the draft could set Miami up perfectly to go this route. The odds seem pretty good that Miles Jack or Jaylon Smith will be available at #8. Both are coming off injuries so that is a legitimate concern, but when healthy you can't find more athletic linebackers. In round 2, Su'a Cravens could be there filling the hybrid role.

The Dolphins could adjust to different offensive changes, without having to substitute. This alignment would match up well with the passing game of New England and hopefully still be strong enough to face physical run offenses.

Obviously, Miami would still need upgrades elsewhere but I like this as a start. Thoughts?

I too like this scheme. It does allow for flexibility. Cravens would be great in Round 2. Would he be like Bucannon w/ Az or Chancellor w/ Seattle?

https://grantland.com/features/hard-knocks-playing-defense-with-tcus-gary-patterson/

I understand how the 4-2-5 is different from a traditional nickel alignment, but I think there is a reason why many teams don't play with this alignment all the time. I think it becomes too easy for offenses to stick an extra offensive lineman, TE, or HB in the formation and completely dominate the line of scrimmage.

I think these packages work best in college where more teams are running spread systems but don't really change up their looks and personnel. In the NFL, teams can go from 4 wide spread looks in one series and change to jumbo packages in the next.

I don't disagree about adding an extra OL but it can work in the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...kage-emerging-as-nfls-hottest-defensive-trend

I have touted the Cardinals scheme w/ Bucannon (S lining up at ILB) & having T Mathieu (S/CB hybrid). It may make look like a straight 3-4 but is it really a 4-2-5, a 3-3-5, or what? The preceding link shows AZ in a 2-3-6. It gives incredible flexibility & will be interesting to see AZ tomorrow against Carolina and potentially against the Pats in SB50.

Keep in mind, The Pats ran something similar against The Rams in the Super Bowl where they had 2 or 3 DL and LB who was actually a safety.

That said, I think Gase & Joseph will run a 3-4 predator alot like what Wade P does. Keeping OV will be key as he'd be the OLB/DE hybrid like Von Miller.

 

[NorFlaFin]

Going to the 4-2-5 and now you know why Jalen Ramsey may go no1 overall in the NFL draft he's the exact prototype for this defensive backfield.

To run this defense as effective as Bama and FSU at the college level. You're got to have two hybrid players a DT/DE and DE/OLB. In addition to the "Big Safety.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Going to the 4-2-5 and now you know why Jalen Ramsey may go no1 overall in the NFL draft he's the exact prototype for this defensive backfield.

To run this defense as effective as Bama and FSU at the college level. You're got to have two hybrid players a DT/DE and DE/OLB. In addition to the "Big Safety.

Agree. But I do think Miami can move close to it this offseason with the players out there and then continue to fill in the gaps. It seems like the perfect defense to slow down Gronk and all those three wide sets most teams are using.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Problem is that we dont have the personal to play it. Our secondary is bad as it is which is looking like we need to get atleast 2 new starters if grimes returns and 3 if he doesnt. Playing a 4-2-5 would make the possibilty of needigg 5 new starters. Not to mention it is easier to find quality linebackerd than it is secondary. Asking for 4 new secondary players is a pretty steep task.

Either way you slice it, whatever defense Miami ends up using, they will need a major revamp. If the team goes with a 3-4, the Dolphins probably need to find three starting linebackers, plus the needs in the secondary. If Miami stays with a 4-3, needs are there at linebacker and in the secondary. And if they team loses Olivier Vernon and/or Cam Wake it opens up more needs.

This draft just may perfectly set up for a 4-2-5 with the players available in the first few rounds.

 

[utahphinsfan]

Going to the 4-2-5 and now you know why Jalen Ramsey may go no1 overall in the NFL draft he's the exact prototype for this defensive backfield.

To run this defense as effective as Bama and FSU at the college level. You're got to have two hybrid players a DT/DE and DE/OLB. In addition to the "Big Safety.

This scheme, as I see it, requires a S/LB & DE/OLB. Having a CB/S is added flexibility.

If Miami were to keep OV then draft Ramsey and Cravens then there is a pretty good chance Miami is converting.

 

[LDaniel7]

You would still need 5 good DB's. We don't have 3, and one of our two appears to be getting long-in-the-tooth.

Honestly, we don't have the personnel to play any defense at this point...

Not to mention that she's facing menopause and the wrath of her husband Miko.

LD

 

[NorFlaFin]

Outside of Suh Miami needs all new defensive anyway, I see the point of converting if the coaching staff needs, wants too.

No I don't consider Jones an elite safety, too many bust coverages and bad angles, I've seen this movie before at the college with a number too-hype safeties at FSU that do exactly what Jones does. Bad angles and busted coverage. Getting trucked by Frank Gores corpse was hysterical though.

I wish could find the article when Saban installed his defense at LSU, Miami, and Bama. And compared those with the installation of the same defense by Jeremy Pruitt at FSU.

Just like an old fashioned 3-4 got to have a 350 NT then the multiple-position guys that flex in and out depending on the defense as called.

FWIW- giving that Suh is the $116 man. I'd go with Mickey Andrews version of an attack 4-3 and find speed at each position.

 

[.....]

Teams with even an average running game would enjoy playing us if we used this defense.