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Thoughts on Vance Joseph

JTech194

JTech194

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This may have already been discussed here but I don't know how to search for past threads so....

There seems to be varying opinions amongths dolphins fans about Vance Joseph. Some thinks he sucks and some think he's done a great job. I personally think he's done just a good a job with the defense as Gase has done with the Offense, Considering the hand he's been dealt.

We lost a top 5 safety in the entire NFL in Jones, We're starting a 2nd year converted WR at one CB spot. He had a rookie (Howard) playing extremely well prior to injury, and had a previously struggling and benched CB in Maxwell playing well prior to injury. He lost a Starting LB early in the season (Misi) and has been forced to play with lets just say (Below Average) talent at the LB Spot, and then there's Spencer Paysinger :-(

This defense has come up with Timely stops in critical moments in several games during our winning streak and a I would attribute a couple of those wins directly to Vance. His play calls have directly led to key turnovers

1. The call where Kiko faked a blitz and dropped back into coverage to undercut the slant\post to the WR... That play call resulted in a WIN
2. The zone blitz where the DE (I forget who it was) dropped back into coverage and intercepted a Pass
3. The same zone blitz with Wake that also resulted in an INT.

I'm sure I'm missing a couple of other play calls.

With a few more pieces on defense (LB, Safety depth, a better slot corner, another DE or two) This defense can really go to the next level if he stays. I know it's selfish, but i really hope he does not get offered a Head Coaching job next year and we can see this team with Gase and Vance coaching and added pieces on both sides of the ball with them to work with.... AND the current pieces in their second years in the same system which should result in a better understanding of it, less thinking and faster play.

Your thoughts on Vance and the Job he's done so far?
 
He's been O.K but I wish he would blitz more at times, we give up way too many 3rd and longs. Had we blitzed a hobbled Russel Wilson on 4th and 4 instead of rushing 4 tired lineman, we probably would have won, but that's just one play. I also thought the play call on 4th and goal from the 7 against Buffalo last week was pretty poor, since we rushed 4 and dropped 2 LB's from the A gap, instead of just rushing 3 and playing a tight zone which I think would have been more effective. I also thought the Bmore game was a poor defensive game plan. Joseph has had a ton of injuries to deal with this year and he has done great things with our secondary, Lippett in particular so I am still very bullish on Joseph's future, but I don't think he's there in terms of being a great DC just yet.
 
Part of me thinks he's done a good job for the talent-less defense he's had but part of me wonders what his philosophy is because we seem to give up yards at will then tighten up a bit once the opponent crosses mid field. We're pretty good on 3rd down but we suck on 1st and 2nd down. How?

If we had more talent on defense then we could all make a better assessment of the job he was doing but, for me at least, I'm not sure what to make of Vance Joseph. I know he never adjusted to the TE kicking our tail in the middle of the field against Baltimore.
 
I think he has done well for what he has for the most part. my big problem is dropping wake back on third and long. we have to get better in the hook/curl, and hole. we have gotten better on the outside, but when we are in cover 2 rambo is awful getting over the top. i think we have been playing 2 in the wrong situations lately which got us beat a few times last week. but with the injuries and and awful lb corp it could be worse
 
Good coach working with a substandard defensive roster

There are probably college teams who have a better group of linebackers than ours
 
On the fence, my gut says he's great...lets face it we won 10 woth subpar personnel but i would like to see what he can do with some talent.
 
TannDaMan17 said:
He's been O.K but I wish he would blitz more at times, we give up way too many 3rd and longs. Had we blitzed a hobbled Russel Wilson on 4th and 4 instead of rushing 4 tired lineman, we probably would have won, but that's just one play. I also thought the play call on 4th and goal from the 7 against Buffalo last week was pretty poor, since we rushed 4 and dropped 2 LB's from the A gap, instead of just rushing 3 and playing a tight zone which I think would have been more effective. I also thought the Bmore game was a poor defensive game plan. Joseph has had a ton of injuries to deal with this year and he has done great things with our secondary, Lippett in particular so I am still very bullish on Joseph's future, but I don't think he's there in terms of being a great DC just yet.
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Not sure if I'd call him great either.... But considering this is his first year calling a defense, with this hand he's dealt, I think he can be great. And on that 4th down play in Buffalo.... Spencer Paysinger has to make a play there. It was actually a great play call. There were two WR on the outside, you gotta know that one of them is going to run a slant. There was was a LB to his right so why not get more left to take away that quick slant? Two more steps to the left and he either intercepts that pass or knocks it down.
 
Great coach. Hope hes back. Excited for this years draft and then see what he can do.
 
I've been a Vance Joseph fan since before we hired him. From the day we hired Gase, I've been saying how that is a huge benefit. Here's my take.

Joseph is a hell of a coach. He is a friggin genius with defensive backs. He is a great teacher of them, great motivator of them, and a great leader of those men. So, one of the biggest advantages of having him here is that our young defensive backs learn how to play the game at a high level. You see the direct benefit from someone like Xavien Howard who immediately is living up to his potential. But also in Bobby McCain, who has some off games, but when he's on he has been stellar. Then the development of Tony Lippett has also been extraordinary. The reclamation of Maxwell when many of us had written him off. His teaching and leadership has worked miracles on our back end.

We have a ton of talent along the front line and almost none at LB. Most of Joseph's work has been trying to protect a LB corps with only one good player, Kiko. Most of our really bad parts of games have been when we couldn't hide our LB issues. Games like Baltimore exploited our poor coverage schemes and lack of LB's who can cover. Games like Tennesse showed our horrible run stopping ability. Part of this is lack of talent, but another part is that Joseph has not yet realized how to protect his LB's. Sometimes, his adjustments are unexceptably slow, like Baltimore and New England, for instance. We simply didn't adjust. To me, these are growing pains of a rookie DC. He knows the DB's, and how they interact with the DL's. But, he doesn't really know how to work all three units yet, and absent stud LB's, he simply cannot adjust quickly likes he needs to just yet.

The more important question is how will he be as a head coach? IMHO, Vance Joseph will be stellar as a head coach. His best things are man management, DB teaching, and finding mismatches. These go very well with being a head coach. He inspires his players, he motivates his players, he keeps them engaged with the coaching staff and their teammates, and he makes them want to walk through walls for him. He is detail oriented but also a players' coach. As a head coach, his man management skills will be allowed to flourish.

I also think VJ will be a better offensive contributor than defensive contributor, much like Belichick has become. Joseph will be very good at devising certain plays and identifying certain mismatches. He will be able to leave the details and adjustments to his DC and OC, while focusing on helping the DB's and WR's and providing innovative input on both sides of the ball.

Defensively, he will only have so much time to provide input ... so he will likely stick to where and what he knows best, DB's and QB's. VJ was a QB in college and a DB in the NFL. He will get the team all on the same page and working for one another. We will not see him spending a lot of time with the LB's or OL. He will leave those positions to the specialists. But, he will inspire the entire team, and create a meaningful personal relationship with every significant player. He will ask a ton of detailed questions and force his DC and position coaches to get the kinks worked out. The thing about the defense is that VJ really knows and prefers a 34, but with Suh and Wake that would be a poor fit. So when he becomes a head coach, expect him to go back to the Wade Phillips (son of the very talented Bum Phillips) defensive scheme.

To me, VJ isn't quite ready. But give him another season or two and he'll be a heck of a good head coach ... better than he is as a DC. But, whether Vance Joseph succeeds or fails as a head coach will come down largely to which assistants he can bring with him. Because VJ will not shine at the nuts-and-bolts of the entire team ... he needs strong Coordinators and position coaches for LB and OL in particular. And, of course, he needs a QB. I think VJ will start slowly, but improve every year for the first 5 years and grow into a very good head coach. For his sake, I just hope he lands with an owner that has the patience to see it through.
 
He has 2 years left max with us until he is a head coach somewhere. He is a great coach and he has the attitude that I would want for if I am looking for a coach. Things will get better on D with experience and talent. We lack the experience at CB and the talent at LB, once those two things are aligned them this D will take off.
 
Vance is doing a good job I think. He doesn't have all of the pieces there yet to really put his stamp on the entire defense. Would love to see him back next year as those missing pieces fall into place. He will bump that bottom ranked defense up into the top ten quite quickly next year; I firmly believe that.
 
JTech194 said:
This may have already been discussed here but I don't know how to search for past threads so.... There seems to be varying opinions amongths dolphins fans about Vance Joseph. Some thinks he sucks and some think he's done a great job. I personally think he's done just a good a job with the defense as Gase has done with the Offense, Considering the hand he's been dealt. We lost a top 5 safety in the entire NFL in Jones, We're starting a 2nd year converted WR at one CB spot. He had a rookie (Howard) playing extremely well prior to injury, and had a previously struggling and benched CB in Maxwell playing well prior to injury. He lost a Starting LB early in the season (Misi) and has been forced to play with lets just say (Below Average) talent at the LB Spot, and then there's Spencer Paysinger :-( This defense has come up with Timely stops in critical moments in several games during our winning streak and a I would attribute a couple of those wins directly to Vance. His play calls have directly led to key turnovers 1. The call where Kiko faked a blitz and dropped back into coverage to undercut the slant\post to the WR... That play call resulted in a WIN 2. The zone blitz where the DE (I forget who it was) dropped back into coverage and intercepted a Pass 3. The same zone blitz with Wake that also resulted in an INT. I'm sure I'm missing a couple of other play calls. With a few more pieces on defense (LB, Safety depth, a better slot corner, another DE or two) This defense can really go to the next level if he stays. I know it's selfish, but i really hope he does not get offered a Head Coaching job next year and we can see this team with Gase and Vance coaching and added pieces on both sides of the ball with them to work with.... AND the current pieces in their second years in the same system which should result in a better understanding of it, less thinking and faster play. Your thoughts on Vance and the Job he's done so far?
Click to expand...
Overall, I think he's done quite well. In spite of poor rankings due to talent, he's kept the D togehter and won games. OTOH, I may be a minority of one, but I'm frustrated every game he seems to take til 3Q to make D adjustments. Far too slow for an NFL DC. He seems to have used less off coverage, so I'll give him that, but I'd like to see quicker adjustments. Other than that, no complaints.
 
JTech194 said:
Not sure if I'd call him great either.... But considering this is his first year calling a defense, with this hand he's dealt, I think he can be great. And on that 4th down play in Buffalo.... Spencer Paysinger has to make a play there. It was actually a great play call. There were two WR on the outside, you gotta know that one of them is going to run a slant. There was was a LB to his right so why not get more left to take away that quick slant? Two more steps to the left and he either intercepts that pass or knocks it down.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm sure VJ has learned a few lessons this year. But overall did a good job with what he was given. Hopefully next year he will get some LB's he likes.
 
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