Throw away your mock draft- it's gonna be a CRAZY first round | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Throw away your mock draft- it's gonna be a CRAZY first round

The only way I see Manziel in Houston is, if Houston takes Clowney, Atlanta drafts Manziel, and they trade.

Manziel's off the field issues are bigger than people think.. plenty of teams have him completely off their draft board.

Matt Ryan shooting blanks in the ACC championship second half against VT, certainly no one would have projected out that postseason late game chokeability would be less an anomaly due to a weak supporting cast than more an internal wiring issue it apparently is that plagues him. . Who knew that he'd melt so severely and consistently when it mattered most, especially with his superb supporting cast? Anyway, have you heard whether there's now a similar concern over Teddy Bridgewater's ability to rise to the occasion considering he blew his pro day so badly when conversely needing to use this last important showing to differentiate himself positively instead of negatively? Now presumably with the Atlanta FO having a frustrating and objective lay of the land as far as postseasons go,have you heard whether The Falcons are seriously considering drafting any QBs? And if so, where?

And of the popular names of those QBs being floated around as potential first rounders, who do you think will fall the most and how far?

 
The only way I see Manziel in Houston is, if Houston takes Clowney, Atlanta drafts Manziel, and they trade.

Manziel's off the field issues are bigger than people think.. plenty of teams have him completely off their draft board.

So enlighten us, what are these "off the field issues"? I follow him rather close and I don't see a single issue with him that will effect him as a team member. Quite the opposate actually, his teammates and coaches love him as a teammate and there has been nothing but praise about his leadership skills. If teams have him off their boards it simply because they don't need a QB in the first round. The national media misses out so bad on the fact Houston loves A&M and loves "Johnny Football", it's simple, Houston has no chance of losing out considering the moment Manziel is signed his jersey sale will be #1 in sales as well as every other piece of Manziel gear to be purchased.
 
So enlighten us, what are these "off the field issues"? I follow him rather close and I don't see a single issue with him that will effect him as a team member. Quite the opposate actually, his teammates and coaches love him as a teammate and there has been nothing but praise about his leadership skills. If teams have him off their boards it simply because they don't need a QB in the first round. The national media misses out so bad on the fact Houston loves A&M and loves "Johnny Football", it's simple, Houston has no chance of losing out considering the moment Manziel is signed his jersey sale will be #1 in sales as well as every other piece of Manziel gear to be purchased.

Well, since you asked...

Let's start with the fact that he overslept for a meeting at the Manning Passing Academy and was kicked out by Archie, Peyton, and Eli. That's a pretty big red flag so let's start there.
 
Matt Ryan shooting blanks in the ACC championship second half against VT, certainly no one would have projected out that postseason late game chokeability would be less an anomaly due to a weak supporting cast than more an internal wiring issue it apparently is that plagues him. . Who knew that he'd melt so severely and consistently when it mattered most, especially with his superb supporting cast? Anyway, have you heard whether there's now a similar concern over Teddy Bridgewater's ability to rise to the occasion considering he blew his pro day so badly when conversely needing to use this last important showing to differentiate himself positively instead of negatively? Now presumably with the Atlanta FO having a frustrating and objective lay of the land as far as postseasons go,have you heard whether The Falcons are seriously considering drafting any QBs? And if so, where?

And of the popular names of those QBs being floated around as potential first rounders, who do you think will fall the most and how far?


Mike Smith and Thomas Dmitroff aren't on the hot seat, but that seat is definitely warming up. So that would rule out taking a QB with a high pick. Teddy was never rated as a potential #1 or even top 10 pick by any team that I know of. One team told me they had him as a 2nd round pick before the season, and their grade hasn't changed since. His stock was never as high as the media portrayed it to be. Most teams are concerned with his size, hand size and arm strength. Also he does a very poor job of transferring his weight to his back foot at the end of his drops. He kind of just taps his back foot rather than plant it. When playing QB, the less you have going on with your body in your drops, the more accurate you will be. And because of the fault in his footwork previously noted his accuracy is skittish at times. This was put on full display in his pro day. Also, he limits his arm strength by that. He pretty much is an "all-arm" thrower. Tom Brady doesn't have a cannon by any means, but he uses "ground force mechanics" which is basically letting your hips do all the work. Not only does this improve your arm strength, it saves the wear and tear on your arm. He is still the most accurate passer in this draft, despite that flaw. If he was to fix that (and it is a 100% correctable flaw) the sky is the limit as far as his accuracy. The lack of arm strength is on full display when he is forced to make "stick throws" or "drive throws" like posts, corners and comebacks. Also when he has a muddied pocket and is unable to fully step into throws, it is evident there as well. The pro day definitely hurt Bridgewater's stock. But I think a big part of that was throwing without the gloves. It may sound silly, but I think he was more uncomfortable due to the fact he wasn't wearing his gloves than the "spotlight" of his pro day. He's shown he has the clutch factor. Notably, coming back into the game vs. UConn in 2012 in what was essentially the Big East Championship and leading his team to victory. I think it's safe to say that there's a very good chance he falls out of the first round completely. I've even heard Tom Savage may go before him. I gave Teddy a late 1st grade. But in order for him to be a successful starting quarterback, he needs to play for a team in one of the south or west divisions for 2 reasons. #1 He doesn't have the arm strength to play consistently well in poor weather games. And #2 his hands are too small too consistently grip the football in poor weather games.

I know there are some teams that completely took Manziel off the their draft board for the off-the field issues. One of which is picking in the top 10. I think he's a first rounder and the highest I see him going is #7 to Tampa, and the lowest would be late 1st with a team moving back up to take him, or a surprise team (New England?) taking a chance on him at the end of the first.

I think it's safe to say Bortles and Carr will be top 10 picks. I know teams have Carr rated higher than both Bridgewater and Manziel. There's a good chance that Carr ends up being the #1 QB taken.
Carr could go as early as #4 to Cleveland, but I don't see him getting past Minnesota at #8. I think the earliest Bortles would go would be #5 to Oakland, and Tampa and Minnesota both like him a lot as well.
 
** left out that he was knocked out of the UConn game due to injury and re entered the game. (Forgive me, can't remember the exact injury)
 
Well, since you asked...

Let's start with the fact that he overslept for a meeting at the Manning Passing Academy and was kicked out by Archie, Peyton, and Eli. That's a pretty big red flag so let's start there.

We've all heard that story, Peyton didn't want to kick him out but Archie did and they kicked him out. In the past 5 years we have had 2 guys straight out of prison, another guy for DUI manslaughter, sexual harassment cases, a "bully" and just a few weeks ago we had a guy accused of being a gang member and flashing gang signs sign with a team aiming for the playoffs.

If all you can give me is he went a little too hard one night and woke up late then you can take that else where.
 
We've all heard that story, Peyton didn't want to kick him out but Archie did and they kicked him out. In the past 5 years we have had 2 guys straight out of prison, another guy for DUI manslaughter, sexual harassment cases, a "bully" and just a few weeks ago we had a guy accused of being a gang member and flashing gang signs sign with a team aiming for the playoffs.

If all you can give me is he went a little too hard one night and woke up late then you can take that else where.

How many of those guys are Quarterbacks??????

Quarterbacks are held to a higher standard..

That's a HUGE red flag. It shows' he doesn't take his responsibilities seriously. Then add in the fact that he has the Tebow factor (on ESPN literally every single day). He's thrown out 100 opening pitches at baseball games, every basketball game I ever watch, he's sitting courtside. He was just at the Final Four and the Masters. He's everywhere but at home resting, and studying film.

The NFL is a LONG season.. 4 pre-season games, 16 regular season games, and that doesn't even count the ones that truly matter.

If it was ANY other position, it would be a very minor negative, but a negative nonetheless.

We are talking about a QUARTERBACK. The only position that will get both a Head Coach AND a GM fired. As well as the entire coaching staff, and scouting department. I know of *multiple teams* that won't risk the entire fate of their coaching and scouting staffs on him for the aforementioned reasons. I'm not gonna take that anywhere else because it's the absolute truth. The guy parties too much and is more worried about being a celebrity than a successful starting quarterback. That's a fact.

I will say this though, if not for the off the field issues, I believe he would be the best quarterback in the draft. Ultimately, his Hollywood, partying lifestyle will catch up to him and he's going to crash and burn. He will be out of the NFL by 2019. Ryan Leaf 2.0
 
Also he was arrested for getting into a fight and providing a fake ID in 2012. The fake ID is not the issue. I think everyone has used a fake ID before. The issue is the fight. There are several teams that will not draft a player that has ever been arrested or suspended. Thomas Dmitroff and the Atlanta Falcons are one of them. In 6 years, they have yet to draft a player that has EVER been arrested or suspended.
 
How can we forget when he shoved a graduate assistant at a spring practice in 2013. Yeah, that SCREAMS franchise quarterback doesn't it? Let me just ask, who does that sound like? Peyton Manning? Or Ryan Leaf?
 
How can we forget when he shoved a graduate assistant at a spring practice in 2013. Yeah, that SCREAMS franchise quarterback doesn't it? Let me just ask, who does that sound like? Peyton Manning? Or Ryan Leaf?

For the sake of fairness, that guy apparently put his hands on Johnny first. Just because you're a QB doesn't mean you have to be a pushover.

For me, the best way that I’ll explain myself is that was a third down on our last drive of the scrimmage. Of course, we wanted to score and they wanted to stop us. Should’ve checked the ball out, I rolled to the right and threw the pick and I guess the GA was just excited or something and he kind of gave me a shove and was excited and laughing about the play. And that just didn’t sit too well with me. I wasn’t happy about throwing the pick. He shoved me, so I just kind of pushed him back.

&

"I enjoyed meeting Johnny," Manning told ESPN.com. "I can remember a 20-year-old Eli [Manning] missing a meeting [at camp] and catching some flak. We always have counselors who leave early. Johnny was great with the campers for the time he was here. He had to leave early. I wish him the best and I want him to come back as a counselor next year."

futurescout said:
Ultimately, his Hollywood, partying lifestyle will catch up to him and he's going to crash and burn. He will be out of the NFL by 2019. Ryan Leaf 2.0

I would ask you to show me where it's affected his performance thus far, though. All I've seen from him is constant improvement. The guy won the Heisman as a Red-shirt Freshman. He had every opportunity as the big man on campus to party himself into oblivion, and yet he got better going from his Freshman campaign into his Sophomore campaign. Then between the end of his Sophomore campaign and his pro-day, he apparently improved so much that he even impressed some of his harshest critics like Jaws.

[video=youtube;YTsLYLbiSG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTsLYLbiSG8[/video]

I think this kid is abnormally competitive and I have little concern about his dedication or his desire to improve his skills.

Edit:

Futurescout said:
We are talking about a QUARTERBACK. The only position that will get both a Head Coach AND a GM fired. As well as the entire coaching staff, and scouting department. I know of *multiple teams* that won't risk the entire fate of their coaching and scouting staffs on him for the aforementioned reasons. I'm not gonna take that anywhere else because it's the absolute truth. The guy parties too much and is more worried about being a celebrity than a successful starting quarterback. That's a fact.

Like I mentioned above, none of that stopped him from growing and improving while at A&M. I'd also wager that whoever takes Bortles or Carr in the top ten will get themselves fired a lot sooner than whoever ends up taking Manziel. God Bless Cleveland if they take Derek Carr at #4 over Manziel.
 
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Johnny Manziel is the most polarizing Draft prospect that the game has seen. Gil Brandt, with his vast experience, loves him and rates him as the very best player in this Draft with extremely accurate throwing skills, while Ron Jaworski rates him a 2nd rounder or lower. (That's a difference of over #32 places between Gil and Jaws). Some of his skills, like the ability to improvise by scrambling are unteachable, but they are real and were very successful at college. Some believe that his inclination to do this will lead to problems in the NFL - Defenses will get to him and he is very small and thin (he's over 4" shorter and 18 lbs lighter than our chubby Ryan Tannehill). He is likely to be the biggest diva that the game has ever seen (apologies to Brett Favre). What is clear is that he has had the benefit of some excellent big O-linemen like Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews giving him the protection and extra time to do his incredible scrambling.
How often do you see such arrogance before a player arrives in the NFL? The whole selling his autographs issue to generate income after winning the Heisman Trophy. The attempt to own the rights to the term "the house that Johnny built" before he plays an NFL snap. The lying his way through the explanation of why he was kicked out of the Manning QB Coaching Academy episode (he was caught out drunk staggering on Bourbon St after 3 am looking for "action"). For many years, Archie, Peyton and Eli have had many great young rising college QBs assist in their training program. They were not all choirboys but most took the invitation as a privilege and opportunity to assist in helping to teach QB skills to schoolboys. However, Johnny's arrogance and lying made him the first and only one to be personally expelled by Archie Manning. (Remember he was just there to assist). Manziel is clearly comfortable in the limelight and that is probably a good thing for todays young QBs. However, there is a big difference between being comfortable and craving attention. Everything Johnny does feeds his enormous ego. We saw Tim Tebow's career partly go off the rails because of the circus that followed him (and a ridiculously low pass completion percentage and an inability to read Defenses). But Tim is clean living, hard working and decent. Johnny has superior talent and intelligence but the circus is real and most teams will be looking for a QB who can just play without the unwanted distraction. Most coaches won't want the problems associated with trying to mold him. But he will sell many products in Texas. They can't get enough of him.
My conclusion is that Johnny could be really great or could also be a major bust and it's a roll of the dice. The GM and owner who select Johnny Football are definitely not risk averse.
 
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For the sake of fairness, that guy apparently put his hands on Johnny first. Just because you're a QB doesn't mean you have to be a pushover.



&

"I enjoyed meeting Johnny," Manning told ESPN.com. "I can remember a 20-year-old Eli [Manning] missing a meeting [at camp] and catching some flak. We always have counselors who leave early. Johnny was great with the campers for the time he was here. He had to leave early. I wish him the best and I want him to come back as a counselor next year."



I would ask you to show me where it's affected his performance thus far, though. All I've seen from him is constant improvement. The guy won the Heisman as a Red-shirt Freshman. He had every opportunity as the big man on campus to party himself into oblivion, and yet he got better going from his Freshman campaign into his Sophomore campaign. Then between the end of his Sophomore campaign and his pro-day, he apparently improved so much that he even impressed some of his harshest critics like Jaws.

[video=youtube;YTsLYLbiSG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTsLYLbiSG8[/video]

I think this kid is abnormally competitive and I have little concern about his dedication or his desire to improve his skills.

Edit:



Like I mentioned above, none of that stopped him from growing and improving while at A&M. I'd also wager that whoever takes Bortles or Carr in the top ten will get themselves fired a lot sooner than whoever ends up taking Manziel. God Bless Cleveland if they take Derek Carr at #4 over Manziel.

What other answer do you expect from Peyton? Hahaha you're making a lot of excuses just like Manziel

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Johnny Manziel is the most polarizing Draft prospect that the game has seen. Gil Brandt, with his vast experience, loves him and rates him as the very best player in this Draft with extremely accurate throwing skills, while Ron Jaworski rates him a 2nd rounder or lower. (That's a difference of over #32 places between Gil and Jaws). Some of his skills, like the ability to improvise by scrambling are unteachable, but they are real and were very successful at college. Some believe that his inclination to do this will lead to problems in the NFL - Defenses will get to him and he is very small and thin (he's over 4" shorter and 18 lbs lighter than our chubby Ryan Tannehill). He is likely to be the biggest diva that the game has ever seen (apologies to Brett Favre). What is clear is that he has had the benefit of some excellent big O-linemen like Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews giving him the protection and extra time to do his incredible scrambling.
How often do you see such arrogance before a player arrives in the NFL? The whole selling his autographs issue to generate income after winning the Heisman Trophy. The attempt to own the rights to the term "the house that Johnny built" before he plays an NFL snap. The lying his way through the explanation of why he was kicked out of the Manning QB Coaching Academy episode (he was caught out drunk staggering on Bourbon St after 3 am looking for "action"). For many years, Archie, Peyton and Eli have had many great young rising college QBs assist in their training program. They were not all choirboys but most took the invitation as a privilege and opportunity to assist in helping to teach QB skills to schoolboys. However, Johnny's arrogance and lying made him the first and only one to be personally expelled by Archie Manning. (Remember he was just there to assist). Manziel is clearly comfortable in the limelight and that is probably a good thing for todays young QBs. However, there is a big difference between being comfortable and craving attention. Everything Johnny does feeds his enormous ego. We saw Tim Tebow's career partly go off the rails because of the circus that followed him (and a ridiculously low pass completion percentage and an inability to read Defenses). But Tim is clean living, hard working and decent. Johnny has superior talent and intelligence but the circus is real and most teams will be looking for a QB who can just play without the unwanted distraction. Most coaches won't want the problems associated with trying to mold him. But he will sell many products in Texas. They can't get enough of him.
My conclusion is that Johnny could be really great or could also be a major bust and it's a roll of the dice. The GM and owner who select Johnny Football are definitely not risk averse.

This was a fantastic post.
 
I've never seen an athlete, actually another person on this planet with more of a sense of entitlement than Manziel. "The house that Johnny built" are you ****ING kidding me? First off that's just the gayest **** I've ever heard. Two how about you play a down in the NFL and earn a starting job first. How many quarterbacks in the NFL are best friends with a rapper?
 
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