Tight End and Miami

[Dr. Phin]

4th in the league in YPC for TE's is not "average" ..... 25 first downs in 32 receptions isn't either. Which is why it bares repeating that with more opportunity, things could open up for the guy. He's a guy with tremendous blocking skills and above average receiving ones.

No, but finding stats to fit your purposes isn't right either. Fasano had 32 receptions for 451 yards. With those numbers, he is not even "average"...he is below average. There were more than 20 other TE's with better numbers.

He is what he is. A better than average blocking TE with less than average receiving skills/speed.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Fasano was fifth in the league in YPC among TE's. That's well above average. As others have stated, he hasn't had nearly as many balls thrown his way the last couple years as all the elite TE's in the league. Let's see how he does in a TE friendly offense when he's no longer on the field with one of the biggest black holes in the league (Marshall) constantly whining to have the ball thrown to him. I think we will be pretty happy with him this year.

Your looking at a particular stat to help him look better...when you look at his base number, 32 catches for 451 yards, he doesn't even meet the "average" criteria..

I think he will have about the same production as he has previously. This isn't Welker moving to the Pats...this is Fasano on the Phins...

 

[fininpsl]

Your looking at a particular stat to help him look better...when you look at his base number, 32 catches for 451 yards, he doesn't even meet the "average" criteria..

I think he will have about the same production as he has previously. This isn't Welker moving to the Pats...this is Fasano on the Phins...

There are about 100 TE's in the league. If he was an average pass catching TE he'd have 50 guys in front of him. Of course you just want to look at starters, but even in that regard he isn't below average statistically catching the football. He's right up the middle average by the numbers. And he hasn't been targeted to the degree many other TE's are. Add to that the fact that he's a top level blocking TE, and while he isn't an elite TE in the league, he's good, and he sure as hell isn't the lousy player many make him out to be.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

anyone see Egnew try to block someone?

I said this last week, blocking from the TE position is HARD. You are often taking on the best player on defense who can set up anywhere.

 

[ChambersWI]

I can easily name 10-15 TE's better than Fasano. He's good. Good and average.

In terms of being a well rounded TE that can catch and block, Heath Miller and Owen Daniels are ahead of him for sure. But he's a damn good blocker.

That being said, I do feel his receiving ability is a bit underrated as we haven't really relied on him much in the passing game.

 

[enigmatics]

Your looking at a particular stat to help him look better...when you look at his base number, 32 catches for 451 yards, he doesn't even meet the "average" criteria..

I think he will have about the same production as he has previously. This isn't Welker moving to the Pats...this is Fasano on the Phins...

What kind of stupid argument is that? I'm not comparing Fasano to Welker. I am maintaining that with more targets, his stats could conceivably go up. It's amazing how hard that is for many to grasp.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

It's almost like Fasano had a low number of receptions for a number of reasons related to circumstance and not necessarily his receiving skills? Stuff like, I don't know, staying in on an inordinate number of passing downs because of Marc Colombo?

 

[Trucanes99]

What kind of stupid argument is that? I'm not comparing Fasano to Welker. I am maintaining that with more targets, his stats could conceivably go up. It's amazing how hard that is for many to grasp.

its not that its a hard concept to grasp, its that you're not really making a novel point. Basically, what you're saying is "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle." Well, no duh.

when you look at his ACTUAL stats, he's average. By your logic, one could easily say "if he had the -most- targets in the league, he'd put up elite TE numbers." Guess what. The reason he doesn't get the most targets, among many other factors, is because he is not an elite TE. Not the other way around.

 

[enigmatics]

its not that its a hard concept to grasp, its that you're not really making a novel point. Basically, what you're saying is "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle." Well, no duh.

when you look at his ACTUAL stats, he's average. By your logic, one could easily say "if he had the -most- targets in the league, he'd put up elite TE numbers." Guess what. The reason he doesn't get the most targets, among many other factors, is because he is not an elite TE. Not the other way around.

I never once mentioned the word "elite" .... and that's why arguing with you guys is pointless. In order to counter my position you give me an extreme example that I never mentioned ...... just like the guy who mentioned Welker earlier.

Getting first downs on 80% of your catches is not average. Neither is his 14.7 YPC which is 4th or 5th in the league for TE's. We know he's been held back on 20% of the pass plays to block. That stat doesn't even include how many times Fasano has to actually chip at the DE first before getting into his route. Colombo was such a friggin' turd. It's not hard to understand his yardage/TD totals could improve with more targets. You're staking claim that he's never open or would drop all the opportunities, which is not supported by the data.

 

[Trucanes99]

I never once mentioned the word "elite" .... and that's why arguing with you guys is pointless. In order to counter my position you give me an extreme example that I never mentioned ...... just like the guy who mentioned Welker earlier.

Getting first downs on 80% of your catches is not average. Neither is his 14.7 YPC which is 4th or 5th in the league for TE's. We know he's been held back on 20% of the pass plays to block. That stat doesn't even include how many times Fasano has to actually chip at the DE first before getting into his route. Colombo was such a friggin' turd. It's not hard to understand his yardage/TD totals could improve with more targets. You're staking claim that he's never open or would drop all the opportunities, which is not supported by the data.

A problem with reading comprehension perhaps? Did you willfully neglect that I wrote, "By your logic, ONE could easily say..."?

 

[Dr. Phin]

What kind of stupid argument is that? I'm not comparing Fasano to Welker. I am maintaining that with more targets, his stats could conceivably go up. It's amazing how hard that is for many to grasp.

And I was not comparing him to Welker either, but just how many more targets do you expect. You would have to double his targets, which is what happened with Welker, for Fasano to be even near the top TE's in the league. Or, is that beyond your comprehension?

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

There are about 100 TE's in the league. If he was an average pass catching TE he'd have 50 guys in front of him. Of course you just want to look at starters, but even in that regard he isn't below average statistically catching the football. He's right up the middle average by the numbers. And he hasn't been targeted to the degree many other TE's are. Add to that the fact that he's a top level blocking TE, and while he isn't an elite TE in the league, he's good, and he sure as hell isn't the lousy player many make him out to be.

Gimme a break! Nobody considers "benchers" when determining what is "average". You consider starters...and amongst "starters", he is average...at best...as far as receiving.

 

[fininpsl]

And I was not comparing him to Welker either, but just how many more targets do you expect. You would have to double his targets, which is what happened with Welker, for Fasano to be even near the top TE's in the league. Or, is that beyond your comprehension?

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

Gimme a break! Nobody considers "benchers" when determining what is "average". You consider starters...and amongst "starters", he is average...at best...as far as receiving.

I guess you didn't read the whole post as I said, " Of course you just want to look at starters, but even in that regard he isn't below average statistically catching the football. " Add to that the discussion wasn't just about his recieveing which at worst is average, but about his complete game as a TE which includes blocking. He's one of the best blocking TE's in the league. Nobody is arguing that he's an elite TE, but when you consider his complete game he is a good NFL TE. Not great, but good. He sure as hell isn't our biggest issue we need to address.

 

[Irishfinfan1]

I guess you didn't read the whole post as I said, " Of course you just want to look at starters, but even in that regard he isn't below average statistically catching the football. " Add to that the discussion wasn't just about his recieveing which at worst is average, but about his complete game as a TE which includes blocking. He's one of the best blocking TE's in the league. Nobody is arguing that he's an elite TE, but when you consider his complete game he is a good NFL TE. Not great, but good. He sure as hell isn't our biggest issue we need to address.

Agree with that, great blocking TE and decent receiving TE, good hands but not amazing athleticism, there aren't many that can block and receive well. The point made on Columbo was very good too, having a solid Oline would give Fasano much more opportunities.

 

[NY8123]

Targets - Tight End Stats Top Ten as Compared to Fasano:

Name	Targets	Target%	1st%	TD's	20+ Rec	ave/rec
Graham	149	22.1	74.7	11	18	13.2
Pettigrew	126	18.7	44.6	5	7	9.4
Gronkowski	124	20.5	76.7	17	22	14.7
Winslow	121	20.9	53.3	2	5	10.2
Witten	117	20.9	59.9	5	15	11.9
Gonzalez	116	19.6	66.3	7	8	10.9
Keller	116	21.3	60.0	5	12	12.5
Hernandez	113	18.7	58.2	7	12	11.5
Celek	96	17.9	56.5	5	14	13.1
Davis	95	21.3	49.3	6	15	11.8
Fasano	54	11.6	78.1	5	12	14.1

Ok let that those so called unimpressive numbers soak in a bit and then remember that Fasano did all of that with only 32 receptions, and 54 targets, 25 of which were 1[SUP]st[/SUP] downs and another 5 of which were TD’s (16, 3, 35, 1 & 22 yards) and one dropped pass while staying into block on a staggering 20% of all passing plays.

Fasano lead in fist down percentage and if you do the math (td's/targets *100) you come up with a 9.3% td rate per target, compare this to the leader, Gronk at 13.7%.

If you dig into Fasano you would realize there is more there than just an average TE.

 

[dwomer]

is it possible Less Brown gets moved to WR or is he out ?