To all those who complain about the secondary...

[CHAMBERS8484]

The last thing we need to be complaining about is anything involving our defense. The bottom line is that our defense as a whole is excellent. Yes, the secondary gives up plays but what do you expect when we have an offense who doesn't score touchdowns?

The best defense is a great offense. An offense that can stay on the field more than one set of downs. An offense that can consistently put up points. We don't have anything even close.

The o-line is decent, but not great. The running game is inconsistent, certainly not dominant. The QB play has been extremely poor, even the games we were winning. The only good qbed game this whole year was the Lions game.

This defense looks like it will be dominant for at least another three years, and while we have a superbowl defense we need something.

We need recievers who can catch. We need a QB who isn't a mirage. We need an o-line that will get the job done.

Don't complain about the secondary. They aren't perfect, but they do well enough to have minimal reconstruction in the offseason.

We need to put points on the board is the bottom line, I am tired of watching a team with no offense. We need playmakers and we need points period.

 

[YBell37]

The last thing we need to be complaining about is anything involving our defense. The bottom line is that our defense as a whole is excellent. Yes, the secondary gives up plays but what do you expect when we have an offense who doesn't score touchdowns?

The best defense is a great offense. An offense that can stay on the field more than one set of downs. An offense that can consistently put up points. We don't have anything even close.

The o-line is decent, but not great. The running game is inconsistent, certainly not dominant. The QB play has been extremely poor, even the games we were winning. The only good qbed game this whole year was the Lions game.

This defense looks like it will be dominant for at least another three years, and while we have a superbowl defense we need something.

We need recievers who can catch. We need a QB who isn't a mirage. We need an o-line that will get the job done.

Don't complain about the secondary. They aren't perfect, but they do well enough to have minimal reconstruction in the offseason.

We need to put points on the board is the bottom line, I am tired of watching a team with no offense. We need playmakers and we need points period.

We don't have good corners. That's killed us in at least a few games like Jacksonville and Buffalo.

Allen, Daniels and especially Goodman are average to below average players with poor ball skills. The safeties are good and getting better but I think corner is at worst a top 3 need.

I agree we need offensive playmakers but if we took a CB in Round 1 or paid a lot for free agent corner I could see it.

 

[PHINANALYST]

CORRECT, outside of signing an OLB ... we don't really need much on defense ... we can get by with what we have in the secondary

It's the OFFENSE we need to fix and fix fast .... IF Ricky comes back next year ... that will automatically improve the running game - but we really do need a true #1 reciever, a better QB and a LT

 

[Bumpus]

The last thing we need to be complaining about is anything involving our defense. The bottom line is that our defense as a whole is excellent. Yes, the secondary gives up plays but what do you expect when we have an offense who doesn't score touchdowns?

The best defense is a great offense. An offense that can stay on the field more than one set of downs. An offense that can consistently put up points. We don't have anything even close.

The o-line is decent, but not great. The running game is inconsistent, certainly not dominant. The QB play has been extremely poor, even the games we were winning. The only good qbed game this whole year was the Lions game.

This defense looks like it will be dominant for at least another three years, and while we have a superbowl defense we need something.

We need recievers who can catch. We need a QB who isn't a mirage. We need an o-line that will get the job done.

Don't complain about the secondary. They aren't perfect, but they do well enough to have minimal reconstruction in the offseason.

We need to put points on the board is the bottom line, I am tired of watching a team with no offense. We need playmakers and we need points period.

You make some fine points, but I'm curious ... how does the offense's inabality to score TD's affect the (at times) severe breakdowns in coverage? When the "O" can not sustain many drives it will tire the "D", but that has more impact on the rushing defense than it has against the pass.

 

[Geforce]

The last thing we need to be complaining about is anything involving our defense. The bottom line is that our defense as a whole is excellent. Yes, the secondary gives up plays but what do you expect when we have an offense who doesn't score touchdowns?

The best defense is a great offense. An offense that can stay on the field more than one set of downs. An offense that can consistently put up points. We don't have anything even close.

The o-line is decent, but not great. The running game is inconsistent, certainly not dominant. The QB play has been extremely poor, even the games we were winning. The only good qbed game this whole year was the Lions game.

This defense looks like it will be dominant for at least another three years, and while we have a superbowl defense we need something.

We need recievers who can catch. We need a QB who isn't a mirage. We need an o-line that will get the job done.

Don't complain about the secondary. They aren't perfect, but they do well enough to have minimal reconstruction in the offseason.

We need to put points on the board is the bottom line, I am tired of watching a team with no offense. We need playmakers and we need points period.

I think you are preaching to the those who minds are made up and no matter what you say will not change their views. All they see are the plays given up (see Jags and Bills game) and not the other subtle things they do. For example the NE game, they see the defensive line getting pressure on Brady but failed to notice that quite a few times when he had to pump and look around because no one was open. Somebody was covering those guys. I know they are great but they are good enough 90% of time for us to be in the Top 5 in pass defense. The only thing I really have against the secondary is that no one back there (at the moment) is a playmaker. Their ball skills are next to nothing and if we can get someone who knows how to make a play on the ball, other than knocking it down, I would be all for it.

 

[PhinsRock]

I thought it was the best offense is a good defense. Nevertheless our secondary has improved but has had significant lapses in coverage ala Jills and Jags games. We have DC, and Ricky coming back, but our main need IMHO is OL, then OL, and more OL. They don't run block, causing our running game to suck, then we have to pass and opposing defenses know it so they defend the pass better and the OL doesn't give our QB enough time to throw, nor our WR's enough time to get open so the QB can throw to them without getting intercepted.

It all starts in the trenches, and untill we build a solid OL every other aspect of our offense is going to suck, I don't care who the QB is, if we don't run block or pass block the QB is going to look horrible and play badly.

You're right we DO have a SB level defense, and with Daunte we've got the QB who can take us there, but if the OL isn't built significantly we're going nowhere but last place.

If we did some run blocking, we could eat up the clock better and our secondary wouldn't be so over exposed.

 

[YBell37]

I think you are preaching to the those who minds are made up and no matter what you say will not change their views. All they see are the plays given up (see Jags and Bills game) and not the other subtle things they do. For example the NE game, they see the defensive line getting pressure on Brady but failed to notice that quite a few times when he had to pump and look around because no one was open. Somebody was covering those guys. I know they are great but they are good enough 90% of time for us to be in the Top 5 in pass defense. The only thing I really have against the secondary is that no one back there (at the moment) is a playmaker. Their ball skills are next to nothing and if we can get someone who knows how to make a play on the ball, other than knocking it down, I would be all for it.

So which side do you fall on?

I don't see the subtle things Goodman or Allen do b/c I don't think they make plays. Goodman doesn't tackle well or cover well and Allen gets turned around very easily. They both get abused by bigger receivers.

Your NE game reference isn't valid as the Pats don't have receivers right now capable of stretching the field or challenging DB's.

I don't think you can have 2 corners with no ball skills. I referenced the Jacksonville game b/c that's the type of team you'd expect to see in the playoffs and we'd be out so fast next year if Goodman and Allen are still covering (or not) their bigger receivers.

 

[FanMarino]

CORRECT, outside of signing an OLB ... we don't really need much on defense ... we can get by with what we have in the secondary

It's the OFFENSE we need to fix and fix fast .... IF Ricky comes back next year ... that will automatically improve the running game - but we really do need a true #1 reciever, a better QB and a LT

I disagree. have you seen the age of our D? I am proud of our D regarding performance and even winning a few games for us IMO, but our DL is in major need of youth if Wright doesnt return and Vickerson doesnt come to fruition. Roth im very happy with because in the limited time he has seen action he has shown up and been rewarded with sacks, forced fumbles and recoveries. Roth im hoping will be our next solid player at End. OLB is a major need IMO. Crowder will move to ILB when Zach hangs his boots up. Spragan doesnt cut it for me. Who else is at OLB??? Cornerback needs a player who can shut down a No1 WR. Im a major believer that if the passing game of the opposition gets shut down our D-Line and LB's will shut down the running game and not the other way around. Our passing defense did get lit up pre-season and 1st half of the season with big plays. Our Defensive backfield isnt the best but its not the worst. Bell, after a lifetime of Fans calling his name has finally had his name called and hes proved us all right. Hes solid and he can cause chaos. Hill isnt a bad Safety either. CB to me is still a question mark. Daniels is a decent player and so is Goodman but its the lack of INTS that concern me. Allen (Will) is solid but he isnt known as a ball hawk. Im hoping Jason Allen will step up but into what postion? Hill and Bell have proved to me they are both starters at Safety. Jason Allen has to come into the frame sooner than later.
To me it all points to this: If we can get a good OLB in the draft or FA and one of our Rookie Defensive-Linemen can step up into the fray and Jason Allen shows hes a 1st round draft pick in his second season then we wont miss a beat on Defense.

 

[RoninFin4]

I'll raise the point again, when is the last time our D has stepped up in a meaningful game? Jacksonville got us recently, we blew the Philly Monday Nighter in '03, lost to the Texans in the opener in '02, and got trounced every time we made the playoffs. Granted Thomas and Taylor are about all that's left from those D's, but that's a bad trend historically. Our D just doesn't step up in big games, secondary, D-line, whomever. We still need another solid playmaker out there and more youth.

 

[Phishpunk@WCU]

CORRECT, outside of signing an OLB ... we don't really need much on defense ... we can get by with what we have in the secondary

It's the OFFENSE we need to fix and fix fast .... IF Ricky comes back next year ... that will automatically improve the running game - but we really do need a true #1 reciever, a better QB and a LT

see i think that a good CB would make a world of difference in the secondary, like i saw on here the safeties are much improved from last year and Bell is looking like a key contributor. I think that Derrick Pope might be our answer at OLB, but one thing is for sure Spargan is not. hopefully we can draft someone, I don't see this as a proirity.

I think that our biggest needs on offense is to upgrade the O-line, the left side in paticular, and get c-pep back healthy. like u said if Ricky comes back that will help a ton.

 

[hof13]

We don't have good corners. That's killed us in at least a few games like Jacksonville and Buffalo.

...

But that's the point. Guys get paid very well to figure how to exploit and confuse defensive secondaries. Every defense is going to make mental mistakes or have breakdowns every once in a while.

The key is if the offense can answer when that happens. Buffalo or Jax wouldn't have killed us if we'd have scored more points. Scoring 27 or 30 points isn't really in the realm of impossibility.

 

[Geforce]

So which side do you fall on?

I don't see the subtle things Goodman or Allen do b/c I don't think they make plays. Goodman doesn't tackle well or cover well and Allen gets turned around very easily. They both get abused by bigger receivers.

Your NE game reference isn't valid as the Pats don't have receivers right now capable of stretching the field or challenging DB's.

I don't think you can have 2 corners with no ball skills. I referenced the Jacksonville game b/c that's the type of team you'd expect to see in the playoffs and we'd be out so fast next year if Goodman and Allen are still covering (or not) their bigger receivers.

Which side do I stand on? I'm one of the few who thinks our CBs are good but not great and don't see the secondary as a priority. I'm not here to try to change you mind or perception of our CBs just my thoughts.

I know many want to bring back the years of Madison and Surtain, I would like that too, but these players are good enough to help the defense become a top 10 defense in the league.

You said my NE game reference is invalid but in case you didn't know, NE was on a roll passing the ball before the Dolphins game and continued against the Texans last week. I only used this game as a reference when I could have used any game, (sans Jags and Bills) since the break to use.

 

[davster82]

Any chance Will Poole will ever be back?

 

[FanMarino]

I'll raise the point again, when is the last time our D has stepped up in a meaningful game? Jacksonville got us recently, we blew the Philly Monday Nighter in '03, lost to the Texans in the opener in '02, and got trounced every time we made the playoffs. Granted Thomas and Taylor are about all that's left from those D's, but that's a bad trend historically. Our D just doesn't step up in big games, secondary, D-line, whomever. We still need another solid playmaker out there and more youth.

New England? We were still mathematically in it for the playoffs when we won 21-0. Our D totally dominated so why do you go back to 03? What do you class as a BIG GAME? When u go 1-6 every game is BIG on D when the Offense does not show up. Its hard to keep winning on D when the O dont step up!!!. Look at our D stats. How can u diss on the D when its the only meaningful plus point of our losing season? im confused.

 

[Slappy8800]

i hope we draft/sign someone who knows how to tackle....way too many missed tackles