Trade Value

fins2923

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From GBN
http://www.gbnreport.com/
"Baltimore had reportedly agreed in principle with Philadelphia on a trade for franchised Eagles' DT Corey Simon, however, the deal fell though when the Ravens were unable to come to terms on a long-term contract with Simon. The Ravens reportedly were prepared to send the Eagles a second and third round pick - one in 2005 and one in 2006 to be detremined - before failing to come to terms with Simon. What the reports appear to do though is set the parameters of any trade for Simon opening the door for other teams to try and negotiate with him. "

- Now, Corey Simon is a nice player and one of the best handful of DTs in the league. But someone explain to me how he is worth a 2nd and 3rd and we're scrambling for a potential second rd pick for perhaps the best corner in football. I've always thought the thinking of Pat's value has been greatly underappreciated throughout the last month or so and I'm starting to believe that we are holding out for a deal somewhat similar to this one.
 

LostInPatsLand

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fins2923 said:
From GBN
http://www.gbnreport.com/
"Baltimore had reportedly agreed in principle with Philadelphia on a trade for franchised Eagles' DT Corey Simon, however, the deal fell though when the Ravens were unable to come to terms on a long-term contract with Simon. The Ravens reportedly were prepared to send the Eagles a second and third round pick - one in 2005 and one in 2006 to be detremined - before failing to come to terms with Simon. What the reports appear to do though is set the parameters of any trade for Simon opening the door for other teams to try and negotiate with him. "

- Now, Corey Simon is a nice player and one of the best handful of DTs in the league. But someone explain to me how he is worth a 2nd and 3rd and we're scrambling for a potential second rd pick for perhaps the best corner in football. I've always thought the thinking of Pat's value has been greatly underappreciated throughout the last month or so and I'm starting to believe that we are holding out for a deal somewhat similar to this one.
Simple. Good defensive linemen are simply worth more than fine defensive backs.
 

Phinadict

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trench players carry more weight...so to speak :)
 

fins2923

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LostInPatsLand said:
Simple. Good defensive linemen are simply worth more than fine defensive backs.
Well, I would diagree vehemently. Have you seen the money being thrown at the CBs on the open market this year? Guys like Anthony Henry and Kelly Herndon have cashed in big time. The best DT on the market was Pat Williams and while he was surely compensated fairly (3 yr-13 mil) his figure doesnt even compare to the double digit bonuses received by Rolle, Baxter, and Hamlin.
 

canesfins13

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Surtain is far from the best corner in the NFL and he is beyond his prime. He is almost 30, bad knees. Please stop over valuing Surtain, he is what he is.
 

LostInPatsLand

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fins2923 said:
Well, I would diagree vehemently. Have you seen the money being thrown at the CBs on the open market this year? Guys like Anthony Henry and Kelly Herndon have cashed in big time. The best DT on the market was Pat Williams and while he was surely compensated fairly (3 yr-13 mil) his figure doesnt even compare to the double digit bonuses received by Rolle, Baxter, and Hamlin.
Hmmm. Interesting point. Perhaps the financial market for players is not quite the same as the trade market.
 

LtDan

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canesfins13 said:
Surtain is far from the best corner in the NFL and he is beyond his prime. He is almost 30, bad knees. Please stop over valuing Surtain, he is what he is.
And that is a crazy comment. Far from the best corner. No freakin' way. Overvalued by wanting a 2nd for him?? No way!!
 

unifiedtheory

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fins2923 said:
Well, I would diagree vehemently. Have you seen the money being thrown at the CBs on the open market this year? Guys like Anthony Henry and Kelly Herndon have cashed in big time. The best DT on the market was Pat Williams and while he was surely compensated fairly (3 yr-13 mil) his figure doesnt even compare to the double digit bonuses received by Rolle, Baxter, and Hamlin.
Unrestricted free agents are always overvalued.

They have the open market and other teams beating each other over the head for their services to thank for that.

Pat Williams is a 33 year old, one dimensional player. he does'nt even play everydown.

Corey Simon is younger (28), and a much more complete player. If he had hit the open market he would have surely recieved a contract that exceeded those of all the corners you mentioned.

The main topic was why are the Ravens willing to give up so much for Simon and we are getting no bites for Surtain.

1.) The free agent market had a glut of good corners. The ones you listed as well as Smoot, Law and Dyson. Almost every team that needed a corner badly got one in free agency without having to give up a pick as compensation.

2.) The draft is top heavy at corner. There could be 6 corners off the board in round 1.

3.) The defensive tackle class in free agency was weak.

4.) The defensive tackle position at the top of the draft is also weak.

I think this is all about timing. With the free agent class and the draft being loaded with corners Surtain is undervalued because of the amount of talent available.

Any other year we would have a line up outside Saban's office offering us mulitple picks for Surtain...I call this the last vestige of Wanny's luck still haning on...It will be gone soon enough. I'm just glab Saban is the man trying to deal Surtain and not Wanny...he surely would have caved by now.
 

caneaddict

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Surtain is more expensive to sign which is why the market for him is weaker and smaller.
 

LithoMan

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No, not really. Look at unifiedtheory's post, and you will see why. Good DB's where/are available in FA, and in the draft. So, that is why Surtains value is weaker. Flooded market does such things, like the Japs flooding the market with their junk crap cars, and taking your money you spend and blasting TV with all their junk ads. But, then you got a Corvette, less around, and cost more. You understand now?

Less = more, more = less. Basic economics.
 

Predaphin

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fins2923 said:
From GBN
http://www.gbnreport.com/
"Baltimore had reportedly agreed in principle with Philadelphia on a trade for franchised Eagles' DT Corey Simon, however, the deal fell though when the Ravens were unable to come to terms on a long-term contract with Simon. The Ravens reportedly were prepared to send the Eagles a second and third round pick - one in 2005 and one in 2006 to be detremined - before failing to come to terms with Simon. What the reports appear to do though is set the parameters of any trade for Simon opening the door for other teams to try and negotiate with him. "

- Now, Corey Simon is a nice player and one of the best handful of DTs in the league. But someone explain to me how he is worth a 2nd and 3rd and we're scrambling for a potential second rd pick for perhaps the best corner in football. I've always thought the thinking of Pat's value has been greatly underappreciated throughout the last month or so and I'm starting to believe that we are holding out for a deal somewhat similar to this one.
I hope this is the case, it would be great to keep Surtain.
 

Waterboy

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LithoMan said:
No, not really. Look at unifiedtheory's post, and you will see why. Good DB's where/are available in FA, and in the draft. So, that is why Surtains value is weaker. Flooded market does such things, like the Japs flooding the market with their junk crap cars, and taking your money you spend and blasting TV with all their junk ads. But, then you got a Corvette, less around, and cost more. You understand now?

Less = more, more = less. Basic economics.

?:confused: ?
 

Boik14

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LostInPatsLand said:
Simple. Good defensive linemen are simply worth more than fine defensive backs.
I wouldnt bet on that. Neither 1 functions without the other. To clarify what Im saying they make each other better in that a great Dl can be as great as he wants but if the DB doesnt cover well he wont get sacks cause the qb will get the ball out. Conversely a good corner can look really bad if the DL doesnt get a pass rush and hes got to run for 7-8 seconds a play instead of 3-5.
 

bschott

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fins2923 said:
From GBN
"Baltimore had reportedly agreed in principle with Philadelphia on a trade for franchised Eagles' DT Corey Simon, however, the deal fell though when the Ravens were unable to come to terms on a long-term contract with Simon. The Ravens reportedly were prepared to send the Eagles a second and third round pick - one in 2005 and one in 2006 to be detremined - before failing to come to terms with Simon. What the reports appear to do though is set the parameters of any trade for Simon opening the door for other teams to try and negotiate with him. "

- Now, Corey Simon is a nice player and one of the best handful of DTs in the league. But someone explain to me how he is worth a 2nd and 3rd and we're scrambling for a potential second rd pick for perhaps the best corner in football. I've always thought the thinking of Pat's value has been greatly underappreciated throughout the last month or so and I'm starting to believe that we are holding out for a deal somewhat similar to this one.
Nice find! Thanks...I enjoyed reading it.
 
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