Trading out of the first round all together... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Trading out of the first round all together...

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OriginalFin

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A few things first...

- It takes two teams to make a trade so it's possible the Fins can trade only so far down (if at all) before they run out of willing partners
- I don't necessarily think the Giants are the "model" on how to build a team but the bottom line is they won the Super Bowl and we won one game!

My question is... Why not trade completely out of the first round and gather as many picks this year and next in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and even 5th rounds of the draft. The Giants had exactly Two first round picks (that they picked) playing throughtout the playoffs and the Super Bowl; Eli Manning and Aaron Ross. Players like Corey Webster, Usi Umenyora, Strahan, Justin Tuck, Tyree, Toomer, Kevin Boss, Brandon Jacobs, Torbor, G Wilson were all drafted in the second round or later.

I do believe if a Franchise player like Manning is available you have to take him, but does the 2008 draft have this player that is heads and shoulders above the other players at his position? The only one I see is Matt Ryan and IMO he is a risk as well (as a Clemson fan I would say take him in a heartbeat as he killed us every year!)

G Dorsey; Incredible but needs to stay healthy and might not fit the 3-4
J Long; would love to see him in Miami if the Fins make the pick but there will be several very good OT's in the 2nd round (S Baker, G Cherilus, B Richardson, K Dunlap all could be available)
C Long; Would probably be a better fit (he played in the 3-4 at Virginia) and would offer character and leadership; but this draft is loaded with pass rushers
D McFadden; I'm a bigger fan of Brown than most but bottom line is this guy has superstar potential and is clearly the best player at his position. With Brown, Williams, and Booker currently in the backfield it is hard to swallow taking another RB with the first pick in the draft

I'm more curious if fans could handle not getting a stud from the top ten of the draft, realizing it might be better to have six or seven solid players instead.
 
i agree because i think the more picks the better, but im starting to like the whole matt ryan thing. mean you need a franchise qb right? there is it.
 
OriginalFin said:
A few things first...

- It takes two teams to make a trade so it's possible the Fins can trade only so far down (if at all) before they run out of willing partners
- I don't necessarily think the Giants are the "model" on how to build a team but the bottom line is they won the Super Bowl and we won one game!

My question is... Why not trade completely out of the first round and gather as many picks this year and next in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and even 5th rounds of the draft. The Giants had exactly Two first round picks (that they picked) playing throughtout the playoffs and the Super Bowl; Eli Manning and Aaron Ross. Players like Corey Webster, Usi Umenyora, Strahan, Justin Tuck, Tyree, Toomer, Kevin Boss, Brandon Jacobs, Torbor, G Wilson were all drafted in the second round or later.

I do believe if a Franchise player like Manning is available you have to take him, but does the 2008 draft have this player that is heads and shoulders above the other players at his position? The only one I see is Matt Ryan and IMO he is a risk as well (as a Clemson fan I would say take him in a heartbeat as he killed us every year!)

G Dorsey; Incredible but needs to stay healthy and might not fit the 3-4
J Long; would love to see him in Miami if the Fins make the pick but there will be several very good OT's in the 2nd round (S Baker, G Cherilus, B Richardson, K Dunlap all could be available)
C Long; Would probably be a better fit (he played in the 3-4 at Virginia) and would offer character and leadership; but this draft is loaded with pass rushers
D McFadden; I'm a bigger fan of Brown than most but bottom line is this guy has superstar potential and is clearly the best player at his position. With Brown, Williams, and Booker currently in the backfield it is hard to swallow taking another RB with the first pick in the draft

I'm more curious if fans could handle not getting a stud from the top ten of the draft, realizing it might be better to have six or seven solid players instead.
Click to expand...
I don't thank that its a bad idea but is it possible.... trade our 1 overall for a 2,3,4 and 6 is it worth it? i don't know.
 
i believe Glenn dorsey is a franchise player, tremendous ability, room to get better, and has great leadership qualities. immediate impact player.

This is such a tough decision for our front offfice, the only way i would trade the pick is if we can get two first round picks {or one this year and one next} in return, add that to our 31st pick and BAM! we basically have three first round picks.
 
I'm sorry but this is just insane. If you wanna post this scenario by all means do, but look into it a little. I hate to keep using the NFL Draft Value Chart but it is a tool that will be used by teams and if we look at it we will see the points value of the 1st pick in the entire draft is 3000 points. Then I took the team choosing 8th(Ravens) in the draft and added up all the points from the second round to the 7th, letting them keep their 1st round pick. Here's the math:

2nd- 500pts
3rd- 230pts
4th- 86pts
5th- 38pts
6th- 24.2pts
7th- 11.4

Total pts= 889.6pts

Soooo a team would have to trade us every pick minus their first for the next 3 drafts and even then it would still not add up to 3000pts. I'm sure a team would probably not wanna do this, and on the flip side if we(the DOLPHINS) said those are rediculous demands, we will take less to make a trade like this go down (Our trade partner only has to give us every pick minus the 1st for 2 drafts). Well then we are getting less value than we should and I don't wanna be involved in moves like that. I want to be the ones getting more value in our transactions. To me this scenario just seems impossible for so many reasons. Its just not realistic.

And saying the Giants did something so we should do something is......I don't have the words. Thats not how it works. Do you think the Giants PLANNED on a roster consisting of more 2nd-7th round draft picks than 1st rounders? NO they make the best choices they can a see how things work out. What we have to do is the same, make the best choices we can and see how they work out. If our 1st pick in this draft doesn't work out but our 6th round pick does it doesn't mean we should try and get the most 6th round draft choices in the future and trade away our 1st. It means nothing more than a pick we saw something in worked out and another did not.

What we have to do is make smart decisions and hope they work out. Thats all for now.
 
I agree, hence why the disclaimer at the beginning of the post....

but perhaps the Fins will accept a bit less than what the trade chart states... this chart is outdated anyway with the way FA is now

The Dallas trade would be a perfect scenario (two firsts, a third, and maybe a pick next year). Maybe trade down with Atlanta first and just take their 2nd pick.

Their is no way Miami will be able to trade down if they stick to the chart
 
OriginalFin said:
G Dorsey; Incredible but needs to stay healthy and might not fit the 3-4
J Long; would love to see him in Miami if the Fins make the pick but there will be several very good OT's in the 2nd round (S Baker, G Cherilus, B Richardson, K Dunlap all could be available)
Click to expand...


Intresting post. My only question is we can't be sure what system we are going to play. Sparano has said he will have the system fit the players.
He must look at the roster and then determine the system then and only then can we figure out what players to target.
 
put-me-in-coach said:
Soooo a team would have to trade us every pick minus their first for the next 3 drafts and even then it would still not add up to 3000pts. I'm sure a team would probably not wanna do this, and on the flip side if we(the DOLPHINS) said those are rediculous demands, we will take less to make a trade like this go down (Our trade partner only has to give us every pick minus the 1st for 2 drafts). Well then we are getting less value than we should and I don't wanna be involved in moves like that. I want to be the ones getting more value in our transactions. To me this scenario just seems impossible for so many reasons. Its just not realistic.
Click to expand...


Where is Ditka when you need him?
 
put-me-in-coach said:
I'm sorry but this is just insane. If you wanna post this scenario by all means do, but look into it a little. I hate to keep using the NFL Draft Value Chart but it is a tool that will be used by teams and if we look at it we will see the points value of the 1st pick in the entire draft is 3000 points. Then I took the team choosing 8th(Ravens) in the draft and added up all the points from the second round to the 7th, letting them keep their 1st round pick. Here's the math:

2nd- 500pts
3rd- 230pts
4th- 86pts
5th- 38pts
6th- 24.2pts
7th- 11.4

Total pts= 889.6pts

Soooo a team would have to trade us every pick minus their first for the next 3 drafts and even then it would still not add up to 3000pts. I'm sure a team would probably not wanna do this, and on the flip side if we(the DOLPHINS) said those are rediculous demands, we will take less to make a trade like this go down (Our trade partner only has to give us every pick minus the 1st for 2 drafts). Well then we are getting less value than we should and I don't wanna be involved in moves like that. I want to be the ones getting more value in our transactions. To me this scenario just seems impossible for so many reasons. Its just not realistic.

And saying the Giants did something so we should do something is......I don't have the words. Thats not how it works. Do you think the Giants PLANNED on a roster consisting of more 2nd-7th round draft picks than 1st rounders? NO they make the best choices they can a see how things work out. What we have to do is the same, make the best choices we can and see how they work out. If our 1st pick in this draft doesn't work out but our 6th round pick does it doesn't mean we should try and get the most 6th round draft choices in the future and trade away our 1st. It means nothing more than a pick we saw something in worked out and another did not.

What we have to do is make smart decisions and hope they work out. Thats all for now.
Click to expand...
due to the huge rookie salaries, the draft chart is all but useless these days, I mean it was a chart Jimmy Johnson made while at Dallas. Let's just put it this way.....there is no player available that fits our needs that is worth $50,000,000, PERIOD! So yes the ponit chart is great, but it only works when your needs align with the players that are available. So again I will say that if Dallas wants McFadden, I would gladly take their two 1st's and a 3rd no questions asked!! We are far from one player away from being a year in, year out playoff contender, so being able to get 3 players for the price of one, and add even more youth to our team, would be the perfect draft day scenerio!!!
 
OriginalFin said:
I agree, hence why the disclaimer at the beginning of the post....

but perhaps the Fins will accept a bit less than what the trade chart states... this chart is outdated anyway with the way FA is now

The Dallas trade would be a perfect scenario (two firsts, a third, and maybe a pick next year). Maybe trade down with Atlanta first and just take their 2nd pick.

Their is no way Miami will be able to trade down if they stick to the chart
Click to expand...

So your saying that if we use logical evidence and tools that this trade could not go down. Now if it is outdated, it would have to be SOOOOOOOO outdated to make this trade work. I just don't think I can swallow that. If the chart is no good how about the history of trading out of the 1st pick. Did you look at that? I wrote a post about the possible Dallas trade that explains that a little, check my posts and you'll see it. My point is that this is not even close to being in the realm of possiblities. Not close even with an outdated chart. Even with the scenario's you came up with. Not close.

I really feel like the 1st pick is a blessing, for many years we were in the middle of the first and I remember wanting a top pick badly. Now that we have a top pick people want to be in the middle. Grass is always greener. If we trade down it will be for something better than I've been hearing on the boards. We will not trade out of the top 14 picks.
 
Personally I have a very controversial oppinion on this matter. I believe it's time for the nfl to reevaluate it's drafting procedure. If the nfl is truly sincere in it's desire for parody, then I think the draft order should be done away with. Let teams openly bid on any and every rookie coming out that want to, and let the rookie decide who he wants to sign with.

In this day and age of salary cap restricted teams, theres no possibility of a team coming in and buying up all the talent. They simply could not outbid everyone for every player.

This would allow teams such as ours, who have many needs to fill, the ability to bid on several key players at a reasonble price. Miami may be a classic example of why bad teams struggle to improve through the draft, the way its currently structured.

We dont need the number one overall pick to rebuild this team, we need solid mid-ranked guys. We are going to be stuck signing a big contract with one player, when we really need to spread the money out amongst the entire team. We are in no postion to sell the farm on one individual talent. If we could get several 2nd and 3rd rounders for our number one, I would jump all over it.

The teams that need the big stars coming out are the teams that made the playoffs and are only one or two postions away from a championship. Let them take the risk on an unproven rookie who is speculated to make a big impact in the nfl.
 
An NFL team can only accumulate a maximum of 10 picks in any one draft. That's one reason for trading down that far. You can't get enough value in # of picks.
 
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