Training Camp Battles #1: Xavien Howard Vs. Tony Lippett

[DKphin]

[h=3]Why Xavien Howard Will Win:[/h] We traded up to get him. I think that adds ammunition to prove that it was a successful move, and you do that by starting him early. If the competition is close, you go with Howard, and hope that pressure molds him into a seasoned star as it does coal into a diamond. He has the measurables; he was the "prototype" the front office spoke of in terms of size and movement. Here's the ball of clay for Vance Joseph to put his stamp on the secondary, and to begin concocting that evil potion of slaying opposing offense.

For a glimpse into what this guy can do, look no further than my man Josh Houtz's Phinsider article.

He's long and athletic. Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, and Sammy Watkins are AFC East targets that demand that combination. The 3 aforementioned receivers each inflicted havoc in our secondary last year, and it's clear we needed to matchup better. The question will become if he can consistently have good technique to prove a worthy adversary to these AFC East WR's.

[h=3]Why Tony Lippett Will Win:[/h] Xavien Howard is just as "raw" as Tony Lippett, so that argument doesn't separate the two. If the rumors are true about the Dolphins' willingness to trade up for Myles Jack, then you have to deduce that they were willing to go into 2016 with Tony Lippett as starting cornerback, or at the very least a competition between him and a (presumably) 3rd or 4th round pick (depending on what they gave up in hypothetical trade).
Vance Joseph has mentioned this guy's name in press conferences already. He's not a forgotten man. His tape at the end of 2015 justifies an increase in his floor AND ceiling: most notably, the outstretched lunge deflection he made in Week 17 against the New England Patriots***. If you're interested in PFF rankings, if Lippett qualified for the minimum snap count (Lippett had 137 snaps), he would've been our highest ranked corner, with a better pass coverage grade than Brent Grimes - he would've been a top 50 NFL CB, if ranked, and he barely missed the minimum snap threshold.
If it's a true competition, and with a year under his belt, Tony Lippett might nudge his way into the starting lineup with his own blend of size and athleticism. Lippett is 6'3", 192; Howard is 6'0", 201. Although it was a small sample size, Tony Lippett showed me enough to think he's not only capable of the transition back to CB and play it at an NFL level, but he can also become an important member of this defense and create better matchup scenarios going against taller WR's.

[h=3]Final Verdict [/h] I think this competition will be closer than some think. They both have size and length. They're both considered raw, and too young to confidently project. A 2nd round pick is considerable draft value, not to mention a trade up - but in this league, even that doesn't guarantee you a starting gig. The difference in money in their respective contracts doesn't put pressure on the organization to start any particular person - they can feel comfortable going with the best player without any public relations paranoia, as a 2nd round pick waiting in the wings wouldn't be the worst worst case scenario because it will be because a Day 3 pick has outperformed his worth in draft capital and, hopefully, earned his position there.

[h=4]SUTTON's Probability: 55% Howard/45% Lippett[/h]

http://www.thephinsider.com/2016/5/21/11724458/training-camp-battles-1-xavien-howard-vs-tony-lippett

 

[Tannchise]

If Howard does not win, then it was a bad pick. With the void of talent, the intention was for Tunsil and him to start


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[ANUFan]

Man our secondary is going to have a target on its back the entire season...On paper we look bad!


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[Tannchise]

Man our secondary is going to have a target on its back the entire season...On paper we look bad!


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Maxwell can play in right scheme. But key, like last season, is we have to help out secondary with consistent pass rush and stopping the run. That formula didn't happen last year

 

[Geforce]

How is Howard just as RAW as Lippett?

 

[.....]

Lippett a #1 corner this year ?!?!?

God, I hate the off season.

 

[Fintastic2124]

How is Howard just as RAW as Lippett?

Tell me about it. He was a late round pick converting from WR. Howard is a 2nd round CORNER.

 

[foozool13]

None of this will matter if our front 7 steps it up. Pass rush is the key. A great pass rush will make a lot of corners look better. That's why Panthers let Norman go and put the money into those 2 d lineman.

 

[xXwarXx]

How is Howard just as RAW as Lippett?

I don't really know that, that's a true statement. Because I haven't seen much of lippet play cb.

But you have remember Lippet was a senior when he was drafted while Howard was a junior. Plus lippet has 1 year NFL experiece on Howard. Also in high school guys like Howard might play 2-3 positions so there not focused on one position. So really your drafting guys maybe with 2-3 years experience at the position.

Cornerbacks, especially press corners, are generally pretty raw as rookies. Eli Apple was a top pick and he only has a few years experience at the position, I doubt he gets on the field much, Trae Waynes was the top press cornerback last year and couldn't get on the field at all.

So yeah, drafting press corners high doesn't mean for a second they are NFL ready. Polished press corners in the draft don't exist.

 

[Kingdom Come]

Three things:
1. Lippett isn't 192 any longer. He is over 200 and just recently talked about how the coaches are working with him doing specific workouts to increase his movement skills,explosion, and core strength.

2. Trying to compare Lippett's length with Howard's is utterly absurd. Howard is 6'0" with 31 inch arms and 9 inch hands and Lippett is 6'2.5" with 33 inch arms and 10 inch hands.

3. Howard has good ball skills but Lippett is one of the most dangerous CB's in the NFL to throw at. He was first team All Big Ten as a WR and team MVP for good reason. His leaping ability, elite hands, and ball tracking with the ability to maximize and high point, along with a gargantuan catch radius for a CB, make him lethal to QB's.

Howard is a fierce competitor with superior movement skills to Lippett. It may come down to how many PI penalties Howard gets in Pre-Season.

 

[rickd13]

If Howard does not win, then it was a bad pick. With the void of talent, the intention was for Tunsil and him to start


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That is so not true. Corner is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the pros. It may take time for Howard to develop, in fact it is more than likely that it will take time for him develop. If it does, that doesn't make him a bad pick. Patrick Surtain took almost 3 years to turn into the player he became. I would hardly call him a bad pick. He was a great pick.

 

[Wildbill3]

That is so not true. Corner is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the pros. It may take time for Howard to develop, in fact it is more than likely that it will take time for him develop. If it does, that doesn't make him a bad pick. Patrick Surtain took almost 3 years to turn into the player he became. I would hardly call him a bad pick. He was a great pick.

people forget it took almost 3 years for Sam Pat and Jason to become good players

 

[Fin Fan in Cali]

That is so not true. Corner is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the pros. It may take time for Howard to develop, in fact it is more than likely that it will take time for him develop. If it does, that doesn't make him a bad pick. Patrick Surtain took almost 3 years to turn into the player he became. I would hardly call him a bad pick. He was a great pick.

Bro sometimes when fans don't see instant results or a superstar they say that was a horrible pick. I think the revolving door of coaching staffs, and not having the right coaching makeup has had an impact as well.

 

[Geforce]

I don't really know that, that's a true statement. Because I haven't seen much of lippet play cb.

But you have remember Lippet was a senior when he was drafted while Howard was a junior. Plus lippet has 1 year NFL experiece on Howard. Also in high school guys like Howard might play 2-3 positions so there not focused on one position. So really your drafting guys maybe with 2-3 years experience at the position.

Cornerbacks, especially press corners, are generally pretty raw as rookies. Eli Apple was a top pick and he only has a few years experience at the position, I doubt he gets on the field much, Trae Waynes was the top press cornerback last year and couldn't get on the field at all.

So yeah, drafting press corners high doesn't mean for a second they are NFL ready. Polished press corners in the draft don't exist.

If you are talking strictly NFL experience, then yes Howard is as raw as Lippett. However, when you are talking about experience at the CB position, Howard was an all-state defensive back in high school. Lippett was an all-state wide receiver. Howard was a two year starter at corner back in college whereas Lippett started out as a corner back in college but moved to wide receiver where he played for the better part of three years.

 

[WaxOn WaxOff]

"If the rumors are true about the Dolphins' willingness to trade up for Myles Jack, then you have to deduce that they were willing to go into 2016 with Tony Lippett as starting cornerback,"

But they weren't going to give up this year's second in the trade up. They were keeping our second in 2016 for Howard. Premise rejected.