Try this and then decide, for or against Jeff Ireland | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Try this and then decide, for or against Jeff Ireland

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normaniii

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Im against.

1 - The players now performing for other teams - Brandon Marshall, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Kendall Langford, Reggie Bush, Devone Bess, Karlos Dansby & Kevin Burnett. Granted not all should have been resigned (Langford, Sean Smith), but a lot of them would improve us now.

2 - Contracts given - Mike Wallace is avg. $12m/yr, Ellerbe $7m/yr & Wheeler $5m/yr, totalling approx. $24m/yr.

When you consider this along the lines that Dansby is on $2.25m/yr, Kevin Burnett $2.75m/yr, Brandon Marshall $9m/yr, Reggie Bush $4m/yr & Vontae Davis $2m/yr & Devone Bess $3m/yr, totalling approx. $23m/yr.

3 - Drafting. I did the most simplest thing. NFL.com has a draft tracker grading all picks the last 2 years.

2012 - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade
2013 - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade

highlight your perceived needs that year and then take the highest graded player available. Try it! I went with 4 needs and doubled up as it fell.

I went 2012 - QB - WR - OL - DE

Only time I deviated from formula was to get Ryan Tannehill. With Sherman as OC its a no brainer.

1-Ryan Tannehill - QB
2-Jonathan Martin - OT
3-Andre Branch - DE - (Branch had masive injury concerns pre draft) next option would have been Bobbie Massey OT
3-Brandon Brooks - OG - starting for texans
4 - Juron Criner - WR
5 - Marvin Jones - WR - 7 TDS already this year
6 - Cam Johnson - DE
7 - BJ Coleman - QB

2013 - RB - WR - TE - OL

1 - Cordarrelle Patterson - WR
2 - Larry Warford - OG - starting for lions
2 - Keenan Allen - WR - 38 recpt. so far
3 - Dallas Thomas - OT
3 - Joseph Randle - RB
4 - Andre Ellington - RB - avg. 7.2 YPC
5 - Michael Williams - TE
7 - Ben Cotton - TE

This is just very simple, but when you look and think that the 2012 draft was strong along both lines, you could tailor FA to take advantage of that. Not resigning Starks for example and requiring DE, DT & O'line would have resulted in

1 - Sharif Floyd - DT
2- Larry Warford - OG
2 - Damontre Moore - DE
3 - Jesse Williams - DT
3 - Alex Okafor - DE

This is just pure basic, picking the highest graded player on NFL.com and then keeping the players that perform for you.
 
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Not defending Ireland by any means, but some of those players were cap casualties and under the Dolphins contracts they would have been playing for significantly more.
 
normaniii said:
Im against.

1 - The players now performing for other teams - Brandon Marshall, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Kendall Langford, Reggie Bush, Devone Bess, Karlos Dansby & Kevin Burnett. Granted not all should have been resigned (Langford, Sean Smith), but a lot of them would improve us now.

2 - Contracts given - Mike Wallace is avg. $12m/yr, Ellerbe $7m/yr & Wheeler $5m/yr, totalling approx. $24m/yr.

When you consider this along the lines that Dansby is on $2.25m/yr, Kevin Burnett $2.75m/yr, Brandon Marshall $9m/yr, Reggie Bush $4m/yr & Vontae Davis $2m/yr & Devone Bess $3m/yr, totalling approx. $23m/yr.

3 - Drafting. I did the most simplest thing. NFL.com has a draft tracker grading all picks the last 2 years.

2012 - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade
2013 - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade

highlight your perceived needs that year and then take the highest graded player available. Try it! I went with 4 needs and doubled up as it fell.

I went 2012 - QB - WR - OL - DE

Only time I deviated from formula was to get Ryan Tannehill. With Sherman as OC its a no brainer.

1-Ryan Tannehill - QB
2-Jonathan Martin - OT
3-Andre Branch - DE - (Branch had masive injury concerns pre draft) next option would have been Bobbie Massey OT
3-Brandon Brooks - OG - starting for texans
4 - Juron Criner - WR
5 - Marvin Jones - WR - 7 TDS already this year
6 - Cam Johnson - DE
7 - BJ Coleman - QB

2013 - RB - WR - TE - OL

1 - Cordarrelle Patterson - WR
2 - Larry Warford - OG - starting for lions
2 - Keenan Allen - WR - 38 recpt. so far
3 - Dallas Thomas - OT
3 - Joseph Randle - RB
4 - Andre Ellington - RB - avg. 7.2 YPC
5 - Michael Williams - TE
7 - Ben Cotton - TE

This is just very simple, but when you look and think that the 2012 draft was strong along both lines, you could tailor FA to take advantage of that. Not resigning Starks for example and requiring DE, DT & O'line would have resulted in

1 - Sharif Floyd - DT
2- Larry Warford - OG
2 - Damontre Moore - DE
3 - Jesse Williams - DT
3 - Alex Okafor - DE

This is just pure basic, picking the highest graded player on NFL.com and then keeping the players that perform for you.
Click to expand...

Your first and second points don't take what happened into account and overlook a few things.

You give a list of people that you say are "performing" at other places and before you leave the point you admit that two of them shouldn't have been signed. The others were just were not performing or were not good enough and we had to try to change something. Brandon Marshall (didn't do that well after we traded him and is only now doing better), Vontae Davis (he's better than Nolan Carroll but he isn't exactly performing at a level where I would regret getting the pick we got for him), Sean Smith (you admitted he shouldn't have been signed) , Kendall Langford (you admitted he shouldn't be signed), Reggie Bush (good guy - didn't fit here, wish him well), Devone Bess (good guy but Gibson proved to be an upgrade before he got hurt), Karlos Dansby (didn't make plays, getting older, & salary cap) & Kevin Burnett (see Dansby).

Your second point about contracts. You do realize that what we did with the linebackers was good for the cap, right? Look at some of the previous threads that discussed the effects on the cap. We paid probably 3 million more than we "should" have for Wallace but when you have a FA it is inevitable that you overpay. By the way - have you watched the games and seen the effect he has on other defenses even when he doesn't get the ball? I hate to think where we would be without him.

It is easy to be a Fantasy Football league geek and Monday morning QB draft picks. I am not completely on board with everything that has gone on the past two years but looking at a list of best available players and saying we should have done that without the context of our many needs is not reasonable.
I would have been thrilled with Patterson but we already got Wallace and we had other needs, etc.

I would not be sad to see Ireland go except that I think that if he has gotten better (and it takes a few years to see how the draft actually was) then a lack of continuity (the coach would probably get changed out too if he went) would set us back a few years. I think we are close to being a much better team and there are not many instances of a team that has done well over a stretch of time that did not have continuity in the organization.
 
When talking about drafts it's easy to look at the wasted second round picks, but do remember there is some real good from the rest of the drafts.

Odrick is killing it, can't deny that.
Pouncey is top 5 center in the league
Hartline is a hell of a fourth rounder
Rashad Jones has been steady and quiet this year, nuts good player
Miller is looking to break out
Misi is a real solid LB esp against the run
John Jerry is a solid enough OG- hasn't been a problem this year
Charles Clay is becoming a common name in NFL circles

The common thread- almost all of these guys took a while to really come into their own. Because Sparano was the coach for most of these guys the first year or two...maybe. Maybe Ireland likes guys on the upswing. I don't know, but the drafts really aren't as bad as many make them to be. Next year the guys from this draft will be on the field more with one year of NFL experience under their belt. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
 
How many times, over and over and over ad nauseum do we need to bring this up? Seriously!
Whats worst RIGHT NOW with better coaching we could EASILY be 5-3,6-2, hell even 7-1 is likely with wins over (Baltimore, Bills and Patriots)


Would anyone be talking about J.I ? Basically making all of the OPs points in regard to talent transaction IRRELEVANT!
 
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The way this Martin thing is going it won't matter how good or bad he's done as a GM. If he is seen as responsible for this mess he is probably gone.
 
tazthenomad said:
Your first and second points don't take what happened into account and overlook a few things.

You give a list of people that you say are "performing" at other places and before you leave the point you admit that two of them shouldn't have been signed. The others were just were not performing or were not good enough and we had to try to change something. Brandon Marshall (didn't do that well after we traded him and is only now doing better), Vontae Davis (he's better than Nolan Carroll but he isn't exactly performing at a level where I would regret getting the pick we got for him), Sean Smith (you admitted he shouldn't have been signed) , Kendall Langford (you admitted he shouldn't be signed), Reggie Bush (good guy - didn't fit here, wish him well), Devone Bess (good guy but Gibson proved to be an upgrade before he got hurt), Karlos Dansby (didn't make plays, getting older, & salary cap) & Kevin Burnett (see Dansby).

Your second point about contracts. You do realize that what we did with the linebackers was good for the cap, right? Look at some of the previous threads that discussed the effects on the cap. We paid probably 3 million more than we "should" have for Wallace but when you have a FA it is inevitable that you overpay. By the way - have you watched the games and seen the effect he has on other defenses even when he doesn't get the ball? I hate to think where we would be without him.

It is easy to be a Fantasy Football league geek and Monday morning QB draft picks. I am not completely on board with everything that has gone on the past two years but looking at a list of best available players and saying we should have done that without the context of our many needs is not reasonable.
I would have been thrilled with Patterson but we already got Wallace and we had other needs, etc.

I would not be sad to see Ireland go except that I think that if he has gotten better (and it takes a few years to see how the draft actually was) then a lack of continuity (the coach would probably get changed out too if he went) would set us back a few years. I think we are close to being a much better team and there are not many instances of a team that has done well over a stretch of time that did not have continuity in the organization.
Click to expand...

The last thing I am doing is playing fantasy football. If anything I am all against it. My point of the post was that JI has let good players leave this franchise and replaced them with more expensive players not performing as well. He has overspent in FA which has Resulted in a lack of depth at back end if roster.

When you consider we could have kept all the players listed above for roughly the same cap number it's ridiculous.

Yes Brandon Gibson was playing well but why not have Bess too? Is having more than 3 decent WR too much? Or was he a cap casualty because of the overspending.

I don't understand why we can't build a roster from top to bottom through draft and then resign the players who perform. What I proposed is not rocket science. Look at the players I listed and the way drafts panned out, then consider the roster and the cap numbers.
 
tazthenomad said:
Brandon Marshall (didn't do that well after we traded him and is only now doing better)
Click to expand...

I stopped reading after reading this.
DIDN'T DO THAT WELL???

Marshall had his best year of his career after he left the Dolphins

In 2012, The first year after leaving the Dolphin
Marshall had 118 receptions...best of his career

In 2012, Marshall had 1,508 yards receiving...best of his career

In 2012, Marshall had 11 touch downs, again best of his career

Sorry, but your statement has no truth in reality
 
It's not as easy as taking the highest rated player off the board and putting him on your team. You have to draft players who fit the scheme you plan to run and then theirs the whole character/mentality issues. Did the players interview well? Are they a fit personality wise? How coachable are they? Do they display football intelligence? Are they self motivated? Etc.

If it was as simple as just judging on the field performance then every GM would just take the highest rated player on the board and move on. A successful GM has to take all the factors on and off the field, come up with his own evaluation and rating system and be true to his own board. If the GMs rating system is flawed...well then he won't be very successful.
 
datruth55 said:
It's not as easy as taking the highest rated player off the board and putting him on your team. You have to draft players who fit the scheme you plan to run and then theirs the whole character/mentality issues. Did the players interview well? Are they a fit personality wise? How coachable are they? Do they display football intelligence? Are they self motivated? Etc.

If it was as simple as just judging on the field performance then every GM would just take the highest rated player on the board and move on. A successful GM has to take all the factors on and off the field, come up with his own evaluation and rating system and be true to his own board. If the GMs rating system is flawed...well then he won't be very successful.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree,so surely with all the additional factors JI has at hand, shouldn't he be drafting far better than he has???

If you want me to factor in certain scenarios and then take the best player available I could. I like players who drop in draft due to size or speed issues, i.e. Russell Wilson, demontre Moore, Keenan Allen and even LeMichael James. I would also at bottom end if draft take players who have dropped due to personal issues i.e. Burfict and dennard. At the lower end there is no risk but high ceiling.

Like stated previously I would go into draft trying wanting or needing positions considered to be a strength of the draft.
 
miamiron said:
I stopped reading after reading this.
DIDN'T DO THAT WELL???

Marshall had his best year of his career after he left the Dolphins

In 2012, The first year after leaving the Dolphin
Marshall had 118 receptions...best of his career

In 2012, Marshall had 1,508 yards receiving...best of his career

In 2012, Marshall had 11 touch downs, again best of his career

Sorry, but your statement has no truth in reality
Click to expand...

It was plain to me when I wrote it because I knew what you stated about his numbers. I was talking about his behavior problems... the reason we got rid of him. He was a huge distraction to his team last year and this year he does seem to have it together.
 
tazthenomad said:
Your first and second points don't take what happened into account and overlook a few things.

You give a list of people that you say are "performing" at other places and before you leave the point you admit that two of them shouldn't have been signed. The others were just were not performing or were not good enough and we had to try to change something. Brandon Marshall (didn't do that well after we traded him and is only now doing better), Vontae Davis (he's better than Nolan Carroll but he isn't exactly performing at a level where I would regret getting the pick we got for him), Sean Smith (you admitted he shouldn't have been signed) , Kendall Langford (you admitted he shouldn't be signed), Reggie Bush (good guy - didn't fit here, wish him well), Devone Bess (good guy but Gibson proved to be an upgrade before he got hurt), Karlos Dansby (didn't make plays, getting older, & salary cap) & Kevin Burnett (see Dansby).

Your second point about contracts. You do realize that what we did with the linebackers was good for the cap, right? Look at some of the previous threads that discussed the effects on the cap. We paid probably 3 million more than we "should" have for Wallace but when you have a FA it is inevitable that you overpay. By the way - have you watched the games and seen the effect he has on other defenses even when he doesn't get the ball? I hate to think where we would be without him.

It is easy to be a Fantasy Football league geek and Monday morning QB draft picks. I am not completely on board with everything that has gone on the past two years but looking at a list of best available players and saying we should have done that without the context of our many needs is not reasonable.
I would have been thrilled with Patterson but we already got Wallace and we had other needs, etc.

I would not be sad to see Ireland go except that I think that if he has gotten better (and it takes a few years to see how the draft actually was) then a lack of continuity (the coach would probably get changed out too if he went) would set us back a few years. I think we are close to being a much better team and there are not many instances of a team that has done well over a stretch of time that did not have continuity in the organization.
Click to expand...
Brandon Marahall didn't do well initially after we traded him? What???!!! He had the best year of his career last year:

118 catches, 1,508 yards, 11 TDs - yeah he really stunk it up!!!

So far this year through 9 games:

60 catches, 786 yards, 8 TDs
 
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