Tua Contract Details Discussion Thread | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua Contract Details Discussion Thread

Feverdream said:
I'm not totally convinced that Brooks is any better than Baker. His PFF scores are actually worse.
Baker got a bad rap here mostly because he was overpaid, so the fire-breathers would focus on a bad play or two and completely ignore his good ones... it's the nature of finding facts to fit one's narrative.
Brooks, like Baker, has very few big plays on his resume. 6.5 sacks and 1 Int in four years is not especially enticing. ...Baker had more, a lot more. So the anti-Baker people will pivot to... but but but... Brooks is better against the run! ...and they'll say that without having actually seen him play but once or twice. PFF certainly doesn't agree. Hell... Seattle let him walk.

But yes, Brooks is a bit younger, and a bit cheaper than Baker was, but then again... Baker only signed a one year deal with Seattle and for less than he used to make.

I think we'll be happy with Brooks, but I still think that a lot of fanboys just see what they want to see here.

Ya know?
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Brooks is better than Baker, though. All you have to do is watch them play. One has good instincts & is assignment sound with fantastic play speed, which makes sense given his pedigree as a 1st rd pick. The other is all over the damn place, picking the wrong hole on repeat, with variable play speed depending on if he knew where the hell he was running. This also makes sense as it's exactly what many of us said leading up to that draft, and is why we didn't want to draft him, even in the 3rd round.

Dude almost proved me wrong with that great season a few years ago ... until we changed the defense and moved him inside. Which was stupid.

At the end of the day he did better than most 3rd picks and he made a surprising amount of splash plays but he didn't have the instincts or ability to get off blocks on the inside so he was a consistent liability, run or pass. Kept outside in that funky defense, he probably would've lived up to that contract, which is why he got it in the first place. Can't really blame him too much but we will be better without him.
 
The Ghost said:
Ya I'm not keeping Austin Jackson if I am acquiring Wirfs and for multiple reasons.

First off, Wirfs is a better RT than LT, which is why TB is struggling to sign him as a LT.

Second, I like Patrick Paul a lot. So having him be an understudy to a guy like Armstead is ideal for 2024.

Third, I need to remove Jackson's salary from the 2025 books in order to justify spending to Wirfs at what I can only assume would be close to $30M.

And lastly, i don't want to give up the draft capital and Tampa is going to demand a starting OT in return, especially one who is a natural LT.

There might be a less than 1% chance of a trade happening but it would 100% include Austin Jackson if it did.
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i think the wirfs thing is a pipe dream. too much money that we no longer have. but apparently paul has looked like ass in training camp so far. doesnt mean he is going to suck, but just not off to a great start. he was drafted as a somewhat developmental player so it is still hard to know. same problem w/chop. hard to get a read. apparently he is getting shoved backwards alot - even by tanner conner
 
phinsforlife said:
i think the wirfs thing is a pipe dream. too much money that we no longer have. but apparently paul has looked like ass in training camp so far. doesnt mean he is going to suck, but just not off to a great start. he was drafted as a somewhat developmental player so it is still hard to know. same problem w/chop. hard to get a read. apparently he is getting shoved backwards alot - even by tanner conner
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I agree on the Wirfs part, its not happy and probably wise to not even sniff around him at this point. The money isn't there to do it.

Not sure where you're getting your info on Paul and Chop from though. That doesn't seem to correspond to the camp reports that have been posted here.
 
phinsforlife said:
i think the wirfs thing is a pipe dream. too much money that we no longer have. but apparently paul has looked like ass in training camp so far. doesnt mean he is going to suck, but just not off to a great start. he was drafted as a somewhat developmental player so it is still hard to know. same problem w/chop. hard to get a read. apparently he is getting shoved backwards alot - even by tanner conner
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That depends on what you are putting into the pipe. - LOL
 
phinsforlife said:
i think the wirfs thing is a pipe dream. too much money that we no longer have. but apparently paul has looked like ass in training camp so far. doesnt mean he is going to suck, but just not off to a great start. he was drafted as a somewhat developmental player so it is still hard to know. same problem w/chop. hard to get a read. apparently he is getting shoved backwards alot - even by tanner conner
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Most post I've read say Paul has looked decent overall and good at times.
 
The Ghost said:
I agree on the Wirfs part, its not happy and probably wise to not even sniff around him at this point. The money isn't there to do it.

Not sure where you're getting your info on Paul and Chop from though. That doesn't seem to correspond to the camp reports that have been posted here.
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Am using the media reports.
Paul has been false starting a fair bit and looking like a developmental rookie.
Chop has shown explosion off the line, but no ability to set the edge and he has been driven backwards by lesser players like Tanner Conner.
That is what I have read. But I have not been there personally. Don't shoot the messenger, which you didn't do, but I meant I am just telling you what I pulled out of the paper.

Also cam smith prior to getting hurt was the one who allowed alec ingold of all people to beat him deep because he bit on the route
 
phinsforlife said:
Am using the media reports.
Paul has been false starting a fair bit and looking like a developmental rookie.
Chop has shown explosion off the line, but no ability to set the edge and he has been driven backwards by lesser players like Tanner Conner.
That is what I have read. But I have not been there personally. Don't shoot the messenger, which you didn't do, but I meant I am just telling you what I pulled out of the paper.

Also cam smith prior to getting hurt was the one who allowed alec ingold of all people to beat him deep because he bit on the route
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I'd love to see these media reports if you can post them here because it contradicts everything that has been posted in the TC threads.
 
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WaddleWaddle said:
I'd love to see these media reports if you can post them here because it contradicts everything that has been posted in the TC threads.
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For example, remember the local media will always try to put a positive shine on things, especially w the rookies because nobody wants to beat up on a young kid right off the bat. They are developmental prospects, and we knew it when they were drafted. Why we took developmental players w such high picks is a different question, i prefer guys that are NFL ready, especially in round 1. With respect to Armstead's comments you need to separate out the facts from the projections. I am more concerned with what is going on now, the projections are guesswork:

Both starting edge spots: Dolphins fans have their fingers crossed that Chop Robinson, the team’s first round pick, is ready to become a day one starter, and star. But based on his early showing in camp that seems to be a far-fetched dream. While Robinson’s first step is a game changer, and gives Miami’s offensive linemen troubles regularly, he’s easily blocked. And not just by offensive linemen. He’s been Metrorailed downfield by tight ends more than would be ideal, which raises concerns about his ability to set the edge. That’s why Emmanuel Ogbah and Quinton Bell, who have each been top 10 camp performers consistently, should be viewed as Miami’s starting edge rushers for now.

▪ Though rookie second-round pick Patrick Paul has had some predictable growing pains at left tackle (including a few false start penalties), the skill set is apparent. “He’s impressive,” Terron Armstead said. “He’s done a lot of things well in this very early part of his career that gets your attention. You see the talent; you see the flashes. Things that he needs to learn and work on, which of course, but I like where he’s at mentally. He’s tough, he’s physical, strong, he’s huge. “His ability to move and mirror, stay in front of guys to finish a play has been impressive. I like him a lot. He’s going to be a really good player for a long time. We just got to keep working and finetuning some things techniques wise, mindset, a lot of pre-snap adjustments that he can kind of learn from. But that will come with time and experience.”

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article290610509.html#storylink=cpy

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article290547484.html#storylink=cpy
 
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phinsforlife said:
For example, remember the local media will always try to put a positive shine on things, especially w the rookies because nobody wants to beat up on a young kid right off the bat. They are developmental prospects, and we knew it when they were drafted. Why we took developmental players w such high picks is a different question, i prefer guys that are NFL ready, especially in round 1. With respect to Armstead's comments you need to separate out the facts from the projections. I am more concerned with what is going on now, the projections are guesswork:

Both starting edge spots: Dolphins fans have their fingers crossed that Chop Robinson, the team’s first round pick, is ready to become a day one starter, and star. But based on his early showing in camp that seems to be a far-fetched dream. While Robinson’s first step is a game changer, and gives Miami’s offensive linemen troubles regularly, he’s easily blocked. And not just by offensive linemen. He’s been Metrorailed downfield by tight ends more than would be ideal, which raises concerns about his ability to set the edge. That’s why Emmanuel Ogbah and Quinton Bell, who have each been top 10 camp performers consistently, should be viewed as Miami’s starting edge rushers for now.

▪ Though rookie second-round pick Patrick Paul has had some predictable growing pains at left tackle (including a few false start penalties), the skill set is apparent. “He’s impressive,” Terron Armstead said. “He’s done a lot of things well in this very early part of his career that gets your attention. You see the talent; you see the flashes. Things that he needs to learn and work on, which of course, but I like where he’s at mentally. He’s tough, he’s physical, strong, he’s huge. “His ability to move and mirror, stay in front of guys to finish a play has been impressive. I like him a lot. He’s going to be a really good player for a long time. We just got to keep working and finetuning some things techniques wise, mindset, a lot of pre-snap adjustments that he can kind of learn from. But that will come with time and experience.”

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article290610509.html#storylink=cpy

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article290547484.html#storylink=cpy
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Appreciate the links and blurbs since it's behind a pay wall and I wouldn't pay a dime to read anything Omar Kelly puts out.

I'm sure there are growing pains with both players, which is to be expected but I think you oversold how much they are struggling in your initial post. Besides the couple false starts comment, the rest of that paul blurb is extremely positive and everything else I have seen has been positive as well.

Chops run defense will be a work in progress but Kelly is the only one I've seen make comments about TEs stonewalling him but I could be wrong on that since I'm sure I've missed some.

Again, appreciate you posting your source because most people wouldn't actually post anything when asked but ill take it with a grain of salt because Omar Kelly's never given me reason to trust anything he says.
 
WaddleWaddle said:
Appreciate the links and blurbs since it's behind a pay wall and I wouldn't pay a dime to read anything Omar Kelly puts out.

I'm sure there are growing pains with both players, which is to be expected but I think you oversold how much they are struggling in your initial post. Besides the couple false starts comment, the rest of that paul blurb is extremely positive and everything else I have seen has been positive as well.

Chops run defense will be a work in progress but Kelly is the only one I've seen make comments about TEs stonewalling him but I could be wrong on that since I'm sure I've missed some.

Again, appreciate you posting your source because most people wouldn't actually post anything when asked but ill take it with a grain of salt because Omar Kelly's never given me reason to trust anything he says.
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well first of all one of the posts was from slowmar, but the other was barry jackson. the positive comments from armstead about paul were the right thing. he is trying to support the kid, and comment on his theoretical potential. but as far as what is going on right now, it is not good. as far as chop is concerned, everyone is saying the same thing. has a lot of burst, but also gets shoved all over the place and cannot hold the edge. they are both developmental prospects. personally i am not into drafting developmental prospects in the first two rounds. can it work? sure. but i am not a fan of that approach. i think it is hard enough as it is. in the first two rounds i want NFL ready players. the dolphins agree with me BTW, which is why they keep signing players to fill in at edge. they are not willing to bet on Chop this year either. as far as LT is concerned, the Dolphins also agree with me. Paul is 3rd on the depth chart behind armstead and kendall lamm. they know paul is not ready to go. the proof is in the pudding re all of this stuff.
 
phinsforlife said:
Am using the media reports.
Paul has been false starting a fair bit and looking like a developmental rookie.
Chop has shown explosion off the line, but no ability to set the edge and he has been driven backwards by lesser players like Tanner Conner.
That is what I have read. But I have not been there personally. Don't shoot the messenger, which you didn't do, but I meant I am just telling you what I pulled out of the paper.

Also cam smith prior to getting hurt was the one who allowed alec ingold of all people to beat him deep because he bit on the route
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Maybe Tanner Conner is a better player than is recognized? - LOL
 
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