Validation Sunday for the Miami Dolphins | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Validation Sunday for the Miami Dolphins

Statistically, Russell Wilson and Nick Foles are both top ten QBs right now, I think. Nick Foles might actually be like top three? It's difficult to isolate a player for evaluation because of all that goes into football, but I don't think either of those guys are top ten QBs in the NFL right now. Just like I didn't think Robert Griffin was a top 5 or whatever player last year.

Nick Foles, for instance, is playing in a one read offense. If it's not there, he just takes off, checks down to McCoy, or pitches the ball out of bounds. Now perhaps you can't argue with results, but I would say that Chip Kelly is a significantly better as a coach -- and Lesean McCoy is significantly better as a RB -- than Nick Foles is as a QB.

I watch all of these players and you can call me a homer or anything else you like, but I don't think they are light years ahead of Ryan Tannehill as quarterbacks. I think they are being put in much better positions by coaches who are much better than our coaches, and they have rushing attacks that are much, much better than our rushing attack.

One season with 100+ rating doesn't mean much aside from that QB played well for a season. Two seasons of 100+ means that QB is probably pretty special, although I admit the stat seems to be skewed in favor of athletic QBs. Don't have much evidence to back that except that even Dante Culpepper had a 100+ season once.
 
One season with 100+ rating doesn't mean much aside from that QB played well for a season. Two seasons of 100+ means that QB is probably pretty special, although I admit the stat seems to be skewed in favor of athletic QBs. Don't have much evidence to back that except that even Dante Culpepper had a 100+ season once.

Add David Gerard, Vick, Romo, Smith, all considered to be althetic QB's who posted a season of a 100 or better QBR. Carson Palmer also had a 100 QBR season although he was never considered athetic by any means.
 
All I'm saying is, he's had several stinkers, and because the team keeps winning games on things like Matt Schaub pick sixes with 1:47 to play -- WHEN THE TEXANS ARE UP BY 7 -- he is not being questioned. I believe that wins and losses have more to do with the overall talent level of the team than they do with the coach or quarterback, unless you have one of those truly incredible players or a huge disparity in coaching skill.

It's not a knock on Wilson to say that he's overrated right now in much the same way that Andy Dalton is. Wilson is a better player and I think he will prove to be an upper echelon NFL quarterback, but he's had multiple games in which he was downright bad.

None of these young QBs are elite yet. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are both worth 5 or 6 wins over a Matt Moore or Kyle Orton type of player. Wilson, Tannehill, and Luck put together might be worth 3 or 4. None of these young QBs are even top ten yet and every amount of praise we heap on them (I'm a big fan of Luck for instance) should go with that implied caveat that most of what we're looking at right now is potential.

you are right he has had his stinkers, as does every qb, but he also has had a lot more very good games than very bad games.

there has got to be some correlation to the seahawks 11-5 record last year and most likely 13-3 this year. its very good qb play. yes there defense is good, but i dont think its just a coincidence that seattle started to become very good once they drafted wilson.

it does not need to be one of the other, it can be both, good qb play and good defense.

and as i say again, ppl like to make it seem like wilson has tons of talent, truth is he does not, especially on offense. i did not know zach miller, doug baldwin and golden tate are elite players. r they really better than charles clay, mike wallace, and brian hartline?

Seattle's o line has also been banged up until recently, yet wilson continues to make plays. they have a good run game, that is the one position where there is a big difference in talent between the 2 teams. i think wilson being the qb of the team has a lot to do with the fact that they r going to have back to back double digit win seasons, including 11 last year, and 13 and a 1st round bye most likely this year.

seattle was pretty bad before wilson was drafted.

right now, the dolphins aside from there 08 season 11-5 are going to finish with records that we have seen time and time again, 7-9 last year, either 8-8 or 9-7 this year, and until we prove its different, who knows if it really is.
 
One season with 100+ rating doesn't mean much aside from that QB played well for a season. Two seasons of 100+ means that QB is probably pretty special, although I admit the stat seems to be skewed in favor of athletic QBs. Don't have much evidence to back that except that even Dante Culpepper had a 100+ season once.

Hey, Dan Marino did it once, too!

But no seriously. Passer rating is a nice metric, but Wilson has had several games this season where he was either terrible, or couldn't move the offense effectively, and that doesn't even necessarily show up in that statistic. For instance, that Carolina game (similar to Ryan Tannehill) in which he had a very nice, clean stat line, yet the offense put up just 12 points and if you watched the game you could see he was not particularly effective.

All I'm saying is that if you take a look at the bad games Wilson has had this year (Houston, 49ers x2, Arizona at home), he's been pretty ****ing bad in those games. He certainly shouldn't be anointed as an elite quarterback yet. In fact, I think it's laughable to give him the credit, instead of the #1 defense in the NFL. Yeah, he's a lot better than Mark Sanchez, but it's absurd to compare him to players like Drew Brees.
 
All I'm saying is, he's had several stinkers, and because the team keeps winning games on things like Matt Schaub pick sixes with 1:47 to play -- WHEN THE TEXANS ARE UP BY 7 -- he is not being questioned. I believe that wins and losses have more to do with the overall talent level of the team than they do with the coach or quarterback, unless you have one of those truly incredible players or a huge disparity in coaching skill.

It's not a knock on Wilson to say that he's overrated right now in much the same way that Andy Dalton is. Wilson is a better player and I think he will prove to be an upper echelon NFL quarterback, but he's had multiple games in which he was downright bad.

None of these young QBs are elite yet. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are both worth 5 or 6 wins over a Matt Moore or Kyle Orton type of player. Wilson, Tannehill, and Luck put together might be worth 3 or 4. None of these young QBs are even top ten yet and every amount of praise we heap on them (I'm a big fan of Luck for instance) should go with that implied caveat that most of what we're looking at right now is potential.

Id be willing to go even higher and say they are worth 8 or 9 wins on their own.
 
Id be willing to go even higher and say they are worth 8 or 9 wins on their own.

You might convince me that Tom Brady's worth 7 if you count playoff games, but otherwise I think the 11-5 record of the Matt Cassel Patriots in 2008 indicates that even the absolute best player in the game, at his very best, is still just one guy out of 11 on the field.
 
I like RT, but he can make defending him a lot easier by helping his team win Sunday.

Tannehill can only run the plays he is given. If Sherman does not call any rollouts, bootlegs, screens or any other plays for him to avoid pressure then he will be on the ground all day. We have to run the ball--period--and I'm not sure we are up to it. While we are on the subject, Sherman needs to be the first to go regarless of what happens Sunday. The guy has not proven that he can call games consistently and certainly not shown he can make adjustments during games. The quote by the Bill D coordinator that we made no adjustments to their corner blitz was the most damning of all. I just think it's time for him to retire. Perhaps we can get the youger Shanahan or Shula to come in.

The D also has to play better. Our rookie corner backs have not sniffed the field, nor has our rookie LB. Our FA LB's have also been terrible this year, all of these are a huge strike against Ireland. Unlike you, I do not think he has done an "OK" job at all, quite the contrary. While the jury is still our on this year's draft and FA, it's starting to look like another whiff. I know we had injuries but we did not attempts to address them during the year or build the depth we needed on the o-line to counter the injuries. Dallas Thomas, nuff said. For me it's the constant missing on the 2nd and 3rd round picks that have haunted us. I see a guy like Alshawn Jeffries and think, oh what could have been. Ireland has the knowledge, no doubt, but he just doesn't seem to have "the feel" or the instincts for the position. I think Philbin deserves another year, just for keeping this team together. That was an amazing job of leadership. The only thing the would doom all of them is if we get blown out at home by the Jets, which I don't think will happen, but if it does they all shoud go. We are better than the Jets, especially at home, and that would certainly show the coaches have lost the team, and the team has stopped caring.
 
For me its basically this

Win - I will be ok with the team this year.
Lose - Fire the coaching staff and start over.
 
LETS F**CKING GO! Sunday can't come soon enough.

Oh and Dear Cincinnati Bengals, I would like a 4pm celebration of a playoff birth and not a 7pm celebration.
 
Again, I think it is funny that this debate turns to the GM and QB...and even the OC, but the HC slides by. It is interesting to me.
 
Again, I think it is funny that this debate turns to the GM and QB...and even the OC, but the HC slides by. It is interesting to me.

I'm still not sure what to think about Joe Philbin.

Sometimes, I think he makes great decisions that show a lot of guts. Sometimes I think he's made terrible decisions that indicated a lack of guts and a cluelessness for the situation.

Sometimes, I think the offensive coaching staff is setting this team up to fail right now. Sometimes, I think this offensive coaching staff is setting the team up to be good down the road by actually developing the quarterback.

But most importantly, I don't even know that I can evaluate the offensive coaching staff because you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.
 
I'm still not sure what to think about Joe Philbin.

Sometimes, I think he makes great decisions that show a lot of guts. Sometimes I think he's made terrible decisions that indicated a lack of guts and a cluelessness for the situation.

Sometimes, I think the offensive coaching staff is setting this team up to fail right now. Sometimes, I think this offensive coaching staff is setting the team up to be good down the road by actually developing the quarterback.

But most importantly, I don't even know that I can evaluate the offensive coaching staff because you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

What I do not get with people is ANYTHING that goes wrong, it is someone else. A player fails...Jeff Ireland is at fault. A player is not re-signed...the agent and player did not really want to be here. Play calling is whacked....Mike Sherman is dumb. The team is flat or chokes at the end...pro players must motivate themselves. RT struggles in a game....the QB is a bust.

At what does the HC around here shoulder the burden? People make so many excuses for him.
 
What I do not get with people is ANYTHING that goes wrong, it is someone else. A player fails...Jeff Ireland is at fault. A player is not re-signed...the agent and player did not really want to be here. Play calling is whacked....Mike Sherman is dumb. The team is flat or chokes at the end...pro players must motivate themselves. RT struggles in a game....the QB is a bust.

At what does the HC around here shoulder the burden? People make so many excuses for him.

People tend to fall in love with the personalities and end up excusing the results.
 
Hoops he hasn't validated s h I t!!
He has improved and looks to be our guy, and a future pro bowler. But, he has not done sh it yet. If he does not learn to improve his pocket awareness he may never be what we think/hope he will be.
His ability to make tough throws in tight windows that is not a question, he has done that. Consistency, pocket awareness- That we need to see

yes he has...the qb in nfl circles has validated himself...
 
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