Very interesting stuff from the Athletic | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Very interesting stuff from the Athletic

At the end of round 1 I can understand more wanting more at bats so to speak. But not at the top. The reason the one pick doesn’t hit any more than the 32 is cause people pick qbs pushed up by the positional value who bust. They pass up other position players with higher grades and higher ceilings even. Hell we saw it this year even.

The luck the crap shoot that’s all stuff folks say that can’t evaluate.
 
Think that’s more to due with Starks falling to them at 27 and them not passing up on that kind of value and risk losing out on him to move down 5 spots…what’s that getting you, maybe a 3rd but more likely a 4th ? I think they felt Starks was better than anything they could get at 32 plus the 4th round pick, and I agree Starks was crazy value at the end of the first round and allows them to use Kyle Hamilton and Starks as the ultimate chess pieces to match up with whatever the offense throws at them.
I can understand that. I can also understand why the Dolphins traded up for what they believe could become a pro bowl guard.

There are tiers to drafts, so at some point trading up becomes a good value play. If we hit on the player, it's good value all day.
 
The way you make it sound, we may as well just pick in the 1st and 2nd, and then pass on the rest of the draft since the percentages are more likely any particular player will fail than succeed.
I think Eric DeCosta is right. The more at bats you can have the better. It's the best draft strategy for any draft.

I like Jonah Savanaeaii but you could compare it to the Eich situation when he was drafted. Liam was the guy Grier targeted with a trade up in the second round bc the FO perceived him to be the best chance for a starting OL left in that draft. I hope the work they put in on Jonah turns out better than it did with #74. I think it will and I think we have some anecdotal evidence that the Pats would have taken the AZ guard had we not traded up.
 
They REALLY hate our draft keep in mind, these are different scouts with differing opinions.

2025 NFL Draft grades: The Browns and Giants aced the test.
Our grades are a composite score of player value, positional value and trade value.
Austin Mock hands out team grades for the 2025 NFL Draft. His methodology takes into account more than just the player and landing spot. Mock aims to account for the value gained and lost in trades, the value of drafting certain positions over others and more.

Browns A+
Giants A+
Titans A
Panthers A
Falcons A
Packers A-
Buccaneers A-
Cardinals B+
Steelers B
Patriots B
Chiefs B
Bears B-
Cowboys B-
Ravens C+
Commanders C
Eagles C
Seahawks C
Texans C
Colts C-
49ers D+
Bills D
Jets D
Raiders D
Rams D
Bengals D-
Broncos D-
Chargers D-
Vikings D-
Dolphins F
Jaguars F
Saints F
Lions F

Miami Dolphins

Miami only made two selections in the first 142 picks, so again, it isn’t shocking to see the Dolphins down here. And according to the consensus board, they reached for the players they took at Nos. 13 and 37. Now, I think the consensus was criminally low on Kenneth Grant, but the pick that doomed them was “reaching” for interior offensive lineman Jonah Savaiinaea with the 37th pick. Ideally, teams should stay away from reaching for players at non-premium positions.

Opinions were mixed on the Dolphins using the 13th pick for defensive lineman Kenneth Grant before trading up to select guard Jonah Savaiinaea in the second round.

“Kenneth Grant is a big, tough dude who can line up in all the techniques in that Baltimore scheme they have down there. He can hold the line and throw people around,” one exec said. “He went a little early, but they basically said, ‘Eff it, we are going to get a big one.’”

Multiple execs called Grant a less-talented replacement for Christian Wilkins.

“Mason Graham had more splash plays at Michigan, especially in the pass game, but he had some real low points too,” another exec said. “Kenneth Grant just played his game and was consistent. He is not going to be Christian Wilkins, but he is a bigger body who can stand there and eat snaps and play well. I think he would have gone in the top 20 anyway.”

As for Savaiinaea, two execs questioned the decision to trade up for him, with one noting that the Arizona lineman did not impress at the Senior Bowl. But the strongest opinion regarding Savaiinaea was positive.

“He is a starting guard right away who is a really good player and will make them more physical,” this exec said.


Overall draft class was ranked 31st…for comparison NE was number 1, Jets 13 and Bills 22

Favorite pick: Jonah Savaiinaea, OT/G, Arizona

The cost was high, but Miami had to address its trenches with impact players early in the draft. Savaiinaea has experience outside at tackle, but he is a natural guard who should continue moving up the depth chart throughout his rookie season.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Jordan Phillips, DT, Maryland

Holding just two of the first 142 selections, it was going to be tough for Miami to place high on this list. But the Dolphins added a few intriguing talents on Day 3, including Quinn Ewers, who could become a factor if Tua Tagovailoa misses time. Jason Marshall Jr. and Dante Trader Jr. should be solid depth pieces in the secondary. But Phillips could end up looking like a steal if his consistency catches up with his young talent.

Post draft power ranking

21. Miami Dolphins

First pick: DT Kenneth Grant

The Dolphins clearly had a theme — big men. The three defensive tackles they drafted — Grant, Maryland’s Jordan Phillips and Georgia Tech’s Zeek Biggers — are all 310-plus. The wild-card pick is sixth-round running back Ollie Gordon II, who could end up being a star in this offense if the Dolphins can block anybody. They drafted just one offensive lineman.

Their favorite pick of ours

Miami Dolphins: Jonah Savaiinaea, G, Arizona

Pick: Round 2, No. 37

This was easy. It’s their second-round pick, and it’s not close. For one thing, the Dolphins desperately needed to upgrade their interior offensive line, and he will do that for them. But the reason I really love this pick is because of how cool it is Savaiinaea landed in Miami. Savaiinaea will now be protecting not only a fellow Polynesian in QB Tua Tagovailoa, but someone who went to the same high school (St. Louis High in Honolulu) that he did. “God never makes mistakes,” Savaiinaea said after he was picked. “He wants me to block for my people, so I’m there.” — Jim

Most intriguing UDFA

Miami Dolphins: Jalin Conyers, TE, Texas Tech

A versatile tight end who can play fullback, H-back or whatever else a team needs, Conyers (6-4, 260) was also a big-time basketball prospect at one time and has enough length and bulk to be a potential weapon in Miami’s stretch run game. He showed great effort and bend as a run blocker at the Shrine Bowl.

They also rated the teams with best draft classes from the past 5 years, very surprised where they ranked us

6. Miami Dolphins (8.75)

Top 50 picks: 8
Pro Bowls: 2
Starting seasons: 35
Best pick: WR Jaylen Waddle (No. 6, 2021); Worst pick: CB Noah Igbinoghene (No. 30, 2020); Best value: RB De’Von Achane (No. 84, 2023)

The Dolphins had just 37 total picks from 2020-24, but 15 of them were top-100 selections. And though some of Miami’s best value picks (Jevon Holland, Robert Hunt) left via free agency, the franchise has done a nice job maximizing a somewhat short-handed pick arsenal.

And here's their thoughts on our FA period
Miami Dolphins


Added: $33.5M (17th) | Lost: $34.6M (18th) | Differential: -$1.1M (15th)

Big spenders in the past, the Dolphins handed out only two contracts worth more than $5 million per year, one to former Steelers guard James Daniels ($8 million APY), another to backup quarterback Zach Wilson ($6 million APY).

“It feels like a team that invested in some older players the last couple years and it did not work out for them,” one exec said. “I could see this being the start of a little reset for them.”


Daniels is coming off a torn Achilles tendon suffered in September.

“I like James Daniels — good player — and the Pharaoh Brown signing will be good for them, as he’s become a blocking tight end,” another exec said. “Zach Wilson is a good reclamation project. He is similar to Tua (Tagovailoa) in that the ball comes out quick, he is accurate short — all the things he has not been asked to do yet.”

With left tackle Terron Armstead expected to retire, the focus this season will again be on whether Miami has done enough to bolster its offensive line.

“They just don’t have enough there to warrant that they are going to have a better commitment to the run game and better protection for Tua,” another exec said. “Contrast them with Chicago, which made two trades for starting linemen before free agency. That has not been the Dolphins’ way up front.”
If only 2 of our 1st 3 picks are Day One starters, I don't care what these tools opinions are AND I will be much nicer to Mr. Grier (at least for awhile!) 😂
 
From before the season started they put out a list of the athletic freaks in this draft, Grant ranked 3 overall, Savaiinaea at 37 which is exactly where we drafted him lol. Plus Phillips 51, this type of stuff gets me excited for their potential


3. Kenneth Grant, Michigan, defensive tackle

The Wolverines have produced more freak defensive linemen in the last half-dozen years than anyone, from Rashan Gary (first-rounder), Kwity Paye (first-rounder), Aidan Hutchinson (first-rounder) and Mazi Smith (first-rounder) to Kris Jenkins (second-rounder). The 6-3, 350-pound Grant is the biggest of all of them. As a sophomore, he helped anchor the nation’s No. 1 defense for the national champion Wolverines, making 29 tackles, 5.0 for loss, with 3.5 sacks; six quarterback hurries, five pass breakups, one interception and one fumble recovery. When Grant arrived in Ann Arbor as a three-star recruit from Indiana, Jim Harbaugh raved about the then-360-pounder running a sub-5.0 40. Anyone doubting Grant’s speed (a max of 18.75 mph on the GPS) only needed to see him run down Penn State running back Kaytron Allen in the open field last year. His ability to fly up Michigan’s reactive plyo stairs test, a series of seven 26-inch-high stairs that players attempt to jump up as fast as possible, is truly freakish. This offseason, Grant pressed a 115-pound dumbbell 34 times on his right and 27 times on his left. He vertical-jumped 29 inches and did a Turkish get-up with a 150-pound dumbbell.

“Watching KG move is like a work of art,” said Justin Tress, Michigan’s director of strength and conditioning. “He plays and trains violent and explosive.”

Grant isn’t the only freak this year on the Wolverines’ defensive line. Junior Mason Graham, a disruptive force at 6-3 and 315 pounds who was first-team all-conference in 2023, clocked a 4.69 in the 20-yard shuttle and could do the Turkish get-up with a 150-pound dumbbell.

37. Jonah Savaiinaea, Arizona, offensive tackle

An unheralded recruit from Hawaii who quickly emerged as an NFL prospect in Tucson. Savaiinaea allowed just two sacks on 889 snaps as a sophomore last year. At 6-4 and 334 pounds, Savaiinaea is surprisingly lean, with 21 percent body fat. This offseason, he ran faster than 19 mph, bench pressed 406 pounds, power cleaned 355 and squatted 532.

51. Jordan Phillips, Maryland, defensive tackle

Mike Locksley didn’t have to think too long when asked about Maryland’s biggest freak: It’s the 6-3, 320-pound sophomore who began his career at Tennessee.

“This kid is a manchild,” Locksley said. “He’s explosive. He’s (former Alabama star-turned-first rounder who was No. 11 on the 2016 Freaks List) Daron Payne. He’s a nose tackle, but he’s light and so twitchy.”

Phillips, a former standout wrestler and weight lifter in high school, started 10 games last year for the Terps, making 28 tackles and 1.5 TFLs. He has squatted 665 pounds, power cleaned 365 and did an overhead press of 365 pounds for two reps.


Phillips lit up when hearing that Locksley compared him to Payne. “I love Daron Payne,” Phillips said. “That is one of my favorite players. I actually study him a lot now that he plays for the Commanders. He’s very athletic. Has great short-area quickness and is very twitchy at the line of scrimmage and has that ability to create knock-back and get in the backfield.”

My problem with this would at no point has michigans play speed matched up with the fastest sec teams (the more pro comp ones)

There was years there where I was like this is no contest play speed wise Michigan and teams from that conference and the sec.

So it’s possible that pre testing to confirm guys were rated more athletic than they actually are. I think mason graham would fall into that category for example.
 
Good choices for a gamble sure, bonafide starters at positions of need? Highly unlikely
Isn't the draft one big gamble? Don't you want as many lottery tickets as you can get, especially in the mid to late rounds?

Please watch and listen to what the Ravens GM, Eric DeCosta said. It's on page 10 or 11. The Ravens, fyi, are one of the best drafting teams in the league.
 
Decosta took over for Ozzie newsome who killed it prior.

He’s riding a little bit of the prior guys coat tails
Ozzie has been gone for awhile but the Ravens are still killing it.
Whether it was Ozzie putting the infrastructure in place or DeCosta and his staff being great talent evaluators, I don't think it matters.

They've built a consistent contender because they don't have bad drafts or take the middle of any draft off.
 
Ozzie has been gone for awhile but the Ravens are still killing it.
Whether it was Ozzie putting the infrastructure in place or DeCosta and his staff being great talent evaluators, I don't think it matters.

They've built a consistent contender because they don't have bad drafts or take the middle of any draft off.

I’d agree with that. I’d also say they can’t get over the hump but that’s largely qb related.
 
You're a funny guy and a classic projector. The topic of this thread was The Athletic's take on every teams' draft from the perspective of NFL personnel guys, past and present.

Your counter to the many criticisms of what Grier did are "4th round picks don't matter, the hit rate is low" and "secondaries don't matter much these days", and I'm the one having the temper tantrum because I think your points are ridiculous and I happen to agree with people who actually work in the NFL? OK, that makes sense.

And what guy in this draft "wasn't very good". Quincy Riley? Pardon me if I don't take the word of a guy like you who seems to have a minute understanding of the draft and roster building.

You seem to like cliches so I'm going to give you one that you can understand. It applies to Chris Grier and the draft process and best sums up why most of the analysis of the Miami draft was negative.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

My points are driven by data in which I presented. Yours are based on your feelings and opinions.

These two are not the same.

Some day you’ll learn to not let your emotions get to you and get in the way of doubling down with wrong statements after being proven wrong time and time again. Probably not soon as it’s clear you can’t even take the time to read an article to better your knowledge but maybe some day. Some people just understand better than others and unfortunately you’re just one of those people that lack even the basics. Keep reading my post and you’ll learn soon enough if you take notes rather than argue with 0 evidence behind you.
 
Isn't the draft one big gamble? Don't you want as many lottery tickets as you can get, especially in the mid to late rounds?

Please watch and listen to what the Ravens GM, Eric DeCosta said. It's on page 10 or 11. The Ravens, fyi, are one of the best drafting teams in the league.

Yes and the gamble becomes even bigger the later you get in the draft just with lower stakes. This is exactly why your responses have been comical acting as if any 4th rounder is a guaranteed starter or will change the outcome of the team. Glad your coming around and seeing how foolish your original post are.
 
fantastic post.

take ollie, who statiscally was better last year then top rated prospects at the position , and was only slightly worse then them this year.. in an offense that on a whole fell off a cliff, so wasn't really due to his play but the situation around him. so gettin him where we did, was a total steal.. but now its a poor pick?

and yeh ewers was what 5th best qb in the class? and we got him in the 7th, another steal.
only down side was we had a long period without picks, but we gave up those picks to grab an Oline we truely needed, who is a day 1 starter, in a situation that has been bought to light had Miami not trade up, we wouldn't off gotten him and the quality of oline players that came after was a dramatic drop in quality from future predictions sooo I am calling worth,and a higher pick next year in a class predicted to be better, but we drafted poorly???

its just a bunch of clowns who want attention commetning on stuff they clearly know nothing about, now sure in the future these picks might not pan out and these guys will say I told you so.. but where were they all when Brady was picked last?

these clowns need to go back under the rock they crawled out from and stay there

Post more often please 🙏
 
I’d agree with that. I’d also say they can’t get over the hump but that’s largely qb related.
Yup, I would agree, although I'd love to have Lamar on this team. Gotta think he'll break through one of these years but it's hard when the Chiefs and Bills are also drafting extremely well and have better QBs on their teams.

Some would say this is whining but how do KC and Buffalo continually put together better to way better draft classes than we do when they're picking a half round later than us in most drafts? I know the 4 player drafts we had due to trades and forfeited picks, etc, didn't help but even when we have a full compliment of picks it usually doesn't end up as well as it could/should.

I get the excitement with possibly getting 2 starters out of this draft but don't agree with it. we've been beaten down into thinking that's a good draft and imo it isn't given the holes on this roster created by a bad GM.

I think this was the best Pats draft in years and if Maye continues to develop it's going to make it very hard for us until we get a better QB and GM
 
Yes and the gamble becomes even bigger the later you get in the draft just with lower stakes. This is exactly why your responses have been comical acting as if any 4th rounder is a guaranteed starter or will change the outcome of the team. Glad your coming around and seeing how foolish your original post are.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That's a pretty big bust rate

But you know what, Mel Kiper Jr? First and second round picks bust out, too. Thats why we make picks in the 3rd - 7th round, and as many as we can get

Smarten up
 
My problem with this would at no point has michigans play speed matched up with the fastest sec teams (the more pro comp ones)

There was years there where I was like this is no contest play speed wise Michigan and teams from that conference and the sec.

So it’s possible that pre testing to confirm guys were rated more athletic than they actually are. I think mason graham would fall into that category for example.

Can definitely see the issue with Graham, his RAS is incomplete because I think he was worried about what you just stated, the evaluators realizing he’s not some super tools traits guy, his best traits imo his his motor leverage and power. I think he greatly benefited from Grant commanding so much attention and so many double teams.

Grant also told the evaluators before he ran the 40 that he expected to in the 4.8 range, but he managed a 5.11 which is not bad but not exceptional like a Quinnen William who ran a 4.83, Aaron Doland who ran a 4.68 at 300 lbs, Dexter Lawrence who was around 350 lbs and he ran a 5.05…his closest comp imo is Vita Vea who ran the same exact 40 time he did



Mason Graham's 40-yard dash time at the 2025 NFL Combine was 5.07 seconds. He also ran a 5.10 at Michigan's Pro Day. At the Combine, Graham also repped 225 pounds 22 times in the bench press, had a 31-inch vertical jump, a broad jump of 8-9 1/2, a 3-cone drill time of 7.65, and a 20-yard shuttle time of 4.76.
 
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