Vols Fan on James

[roy_miami]

I can care less about value... I want good football players. PERIOD. I would be perfectly ok with us drafting lets say Richard Sherman in the first round when everyone else had him graded as a 5th round pick if he ends up being the Richard sherman we know today. Same goes for Tom Brady. I couldn't care less about the perceived lack of value of getting him in the first round when everyone else had him graded as a 6th round pick if he ends up being a great player. If James ends up being good football player from DAY 1 and helps keep tannehill upright... I won't consider it a reach.

Yup. I would really like to take AJ McCarron but my problem is I have absolutely no idea where he could land, if I take him in the second but he would have lasted until the fourth then it looks like poor value. I wanted us to draft Russell Wilson a few years ago and I had the same issue, I thought he would last until the fourth but it turns out two teams were after him in the third, if I would have just said the hell with it and taken him in the second is that poor value? Jonathan Martin seemed to be great value with our second rounder at the time, sure as hell didn't turn out that way though.

Ranking positions, deciding what position should go where, placing value on players and trying to figure out where a player may get drafted is one big crap shoot. Only time will tell all.

 

[dagodfather]

Actually focusing purely on next season's need instead of thinking about the future would be the short sighted route. James may only ever be an okay right tackle. Not something that is worth the 19th pick.

Dude, get over it already. You've been non-stop bashing the pick ever since his name was called. It's over. It's done. Ja'Wuan James is going to be our starting right tackle and no matter how far your panties may have been twisted up your a$$, nothing will change it. You're entitled to your opinion but you've made it crystal clear that you are smarter than ANYBODY on the Miami Dolphins staff and they completely blew the pick. How about you start saving up your energy for our next pick because i'm sure no matter who it is, you're gonna KNOW it'll be the wrong choice and a waste of another pick

 

[Nawledge]

I find it funny that all the people who say this guy was graded as a 2nd rounder or this guy was graded as a 3rd rounder are getting these grades from a mike mayock mock draft. You have no idea what NFL GMs have guys graded, you're taking the word of a guy who doesn't even have a job in the NFL. If he was such a great talent evaluator why isn't he currently a gm???

 

[DuderinoN703]

Casserly also listed him as the biggest reach (along with NE pick if you can actually believe that).

Check out Casserly's 2nd rd mock. Mistakes galore.

 

[Padfoot]

Dude, get over it already. You've been non-stop bashing the pick ever since his name was called. It's over. It's done. Ja'Wuan James is going to be our starting right tackle and no matter how far your panties may have been twisted up your a$$, nothing will change it. You're entitled to your opinion but you've made it crystal clear that you are smarter than ANYBODY on the Miami Dolphins staff and they completely blew the pick. How about you start saving up your energy for our next pick because i'm sure no matter who it is, you're gonna KNOW it'll be the wrong choice and a waste of another pick

It doesn't take much energy to type common sense. And I'm actually not that upset with the pick. I think it was a misuse of what we could have done with it but it's doesn't seem to be too big of a blunder.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to start to rationalize it with stupid arguments, try to discredit any and all criticisms, and act like this was a better move than it was simply because it was the Dolphins who made it.

We're allowed to criticize something and still hope it turns out fine. We're allowed to think one move by the dolphins might be a mistake and another move is not.

 

[Padfoot]

I find it funny that all the people who say this guy was graded as a 2nd rounder or this guy was graded as a 3rd rounder are getting these grades from a mike mayock mock draft. You have no idea what NFL GMs have guys graded, you're taking the word of a guy who doesn't even have a job in the NFL. If he was such a great talent evaluator why isn't he currently a gm???

It's not just Mayock who thought James was a 2nd round guy. Many many people, from average viewers, to draft junkies, to sports analysts, thought the same thing.

If you disagree with that and think James is a 1st round guy, great. I can respect that. But don't pull the "NFL GMs know better than everyone else" card. GMs can make stupid decisions, and predicting a college player's pro success is far from an exact science.

 

[Nawledge]

It's not just Mayock who thought James was a 2nd round guy. Many many people, from average viewers, to draft junkies, to sports analysts, thought the same thing.

If you disagree with that and think James is a 1st round guy, great. I can respect that. But don't pull the "NFL GMs know better than everyone else" card. GMs can make stupid decisions, and predicting a college player's pro success is far from an exact science.

I don't know if he was graded first round by half the teams and neither do you the point I'm making is just because some guy like mayock has someone going in the second round doesn't mean teams don't have him graded higher. My boy who just watches football who is a Alabama fan said he liked the pick and he watches a lot of college ball and he doesn't like the fins, I'm more inclined to take his word on it than listen to a bunch of babies who bitch and moan about everything.

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

It's not just Mayock who thought James was a 2nd round guy. Many many people, from average viewers, to draft junkies, to sports analysts, thought the same thing.

If you disagree with that and think James is a 1st round guy, great. I can respect that. But don't pull the "NFL GMs know better than everyone else" card. GMs can make stupid decisions, and predicting a college player's pro success is far from an exact science.

I don't know if he was graded first round by half the teams and neither do you the point I'm making is just because some guy like mayock has someone going in the second round doesn't mean teams don't have him graded higher. My boy who just watches football who is a Alabama fan said he liked the pick and he watches a lot of college ball and he doesn't like the fins, I'm more inclined to take his word on it than listen to a bunch of babies who bitch and moan about everything.

 

[Padfoot]

I don't know if he was graded first round by half the teams and neither do you the point I'm making is just because some guy like mayock has someone going in the second round doesn't mean teams don't have him graded higher. My boy who just watches football who is a Alabama fan said he liked the pick and he watches a lot of college ball and he doesn't like the fins, I'm more inclined to take his word on it than listen to a bunch of babies who bitch and moan about everything.

You could say that about every player, but you'll probably never end up drafting a high quality football team if you use that mentality for all your picks. What if the Browns had said, "we don't know what GMs have Manziel as a first round grade so we should take him at #4"? Then they lose out on the deal they got from the bills and a player most people believe to be a top 10 talent. A single player in a single draft is almost never going to make or break your franchise (obvious exceptions of hall of fame play makers). It may be a risk to pass on a guy assuming most GMs agree with the consensus but it is not a large risk and it is worth taking if you want to maximize the quality of overall play on your football team.

If you trust that friend's opinion, again I respect that, but do you not think it's telling that you assume people who don't like this pick are "babies who bitch and moan about everything?"

 

[Markcalius]

Saying all that matters is the man who pulled the trigger got the man he wanted is not the most compelling argument; I know another man who was pulling the trigger named Jeff Ireland who spent a couple years getting the man he wanted (including trading up for Daniel Thomas). If the trigger man is a bad talent evaluator then who cares if he got the guy he wanted? Someone really wanted Ted Ginn Jr., Jason Allen, and Pat White as well. If you say you are happy with the pick you are attacked by the fact we picked the guy too early. If you say you hate the pick you are attacked as a negative person and someone who doesn't understand that games are won in the trenches. Regardless of the stance you take, a little objective reasoning will tell you a lot here. They took him at 19 under one of two scenarios: A. They tried to find a trade partner and couldn't so took the guy they wanted; B. They rejected or did not pursue a trade because they wanted this guy that bad. Either way - it is completely clear that they got the guy they wanted at that juncture. Now, you have to ask whether or not they took the best player available, or were so desperate they grabbed a guy way too early because the need is that great. So, either they reached and did not get the proper value at 19, or they actually evaluated this guy as a top 20 talent (despite 95% of what we have seen having him not rated that high). My concern is with the latter; that is, we have a GM that was our 8th choice who can't properly evaluate talent. In the alternative, we filled a need, but we absolutley overspent to get him (similar to Brandon Albert and Mike Wallace). There is concern either way - and all we are left with is KNOWING we filled a need, but did not get good value. One thing we should all know for sure - with a salary cap, if we continue to not get good value in the draft (based on poor talent evaluation - which we have been subjected to for a long time), and overspend on free agents, we will not build a contending team.

I think you are completely right. HOWEVER, I think Hickey deserves a little leeway when you consider he was brought in with the unenviable task of filling 4 out of 5 spots on the Oline. And it is not like this was an undercover decision to begin rebuilding a unit; Hickey went into FA and the draft with the whole league knowing what he needed to accomplish. If he can put together a decent unit, that will be more than the previous regime was able to do over several seasons.

If he makes shrewd moves with the rest of our picks, I think the Round 1 reach will be palatable.

 

[BobDole]

I don't know if he was graded first round by half the teams and neither do you the point I'm making is just because some guy like mayock has someone going in the second round doesn't mean teams don't have him graded higher. My boy who just watches football who is a Alabama fan said he liked the pick and he watches a lot of college ball and he doesn't like the fins, I'm more inclined to take his word on it than listen to a bunch of babies who bitch and moan about everything.

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------



I don't know if he was graded first round by half the teams and neither do you the point I'm making is just because some guy like mayock has someone going in the second round doesn't mean teams don't have him graded higher. My boy who just watches football who is a Alabama fan said he liked the pick and he watches a lot of college ball and he doesn't like the fins, I'm more inclined to take his word on it than listen to a bunch of babies who bitch and moan about everything.

then listen to your boy and don't argue with people about something you admittedly know nothing about. i watch college football - esp the SEC. we reached. believe me.

 

[andyahs]

then listen to your boy and don't argue with people about something you admittedly know nothing about. i watch college football - esp the SEC. we reached. believe me.

Believe you cause you watch the SEC?

Okay lol

Sent from my Nexus 7 FHD

 

[BobDole]

Believe you cause you watch the SEC?

Okay lol

Sent from my Nexus 7 FHD

or you can believe that 5 out of the top 19 players in all of college football were o-linemen. either way.

i like him just fine. just a round later. passing up talent for a decent - but not great - prospect in the 1st round is exactly how we ended up where we are. i will say that he has vastly more bust potential than the 4 taken before him. kinda what made him a 2nd/3rd round prospect.

 

[fishbanger]

Lots of us guys are smart. We like the player but not where he was picked. Many of us if we were GM would have drafted either James or Bitonio and gained an extra 3rd round pick.

Phins also nee playmakers. We dont have to draft a G in the second round when starting guards with experience are still available in FA. How about BPA in rounds 2 and 3 for any of these positions: LB, WR, TE, CB.

 

[Merle13]

Who am I? I am a dolphin fan of 40+ years. I am the same as you, simply a fan who loves his team. As I am also a life long fan of the Vols I had the opportunity to watch James his whole college career and he is a solid pick at a pressing position of need. Was it a bit of a reach, maybe so, but one that is justified. Hickey got trade calls but as reported by the NFL network had no deal and we were locked in at 19. With all due respect to the talent evaluators on this site they are fans just like us. Hickey maybe great or he maybe bad, time will tell, but what is fact is he is a professional and the man in charge. I trust his opinion until he proves otherwise. My point in posting was to pull some of you guys off the ledge you always live on and say in my humble fan opinion from watching football for 40 years and James play for 4 we got a solid RT. Leaves me one last question Who are you!