We wait on Quinn to fall to 9 -hes not there...what next?

[Phinfan31]

I want Quinn as much as the next supporter...but after reading the thread titled "Enough of the trade up to 6 crap" I've changed my perspective on trading to that spot (the only spot I would consider trading to for Quinn) so I think we wait it out...we hope he falls. That would be the wise decision...as much as I want Quinn it would be for the best...we just cant afford to - A. Spend picks we desperately need, and B. pay a prospect like Quinn THAT much money! So this is the deal...what IF hes gone!? What do we do!? Consider we CANT trade down, we've looked at our options and they're just not worth it or appealing...who do you take????

I am 99% positive Russell,Johnson,Adams,Thomas, AND Landry are not going to fall to us...so you can forget them. You can argue for Landry but theres just no way the Vikes and Falcons pass on him...I dont think so anyway, if you are stubborn an want to support your case then fine

So with our options left lets go with our top3 choices in order of our desire if we were in charge:

#1 - Amobi Okoye - If this guy is here at #9 and Quinn is off the board I think we have to take him! The guy is unreal...his story, his ability on the field, his desire to prove to everyone he "belongs" his whole life...he just wreaks of a Hall of Famer to me. The guy is 19 YEARS OLD...hes younger than me by 1 year and hes about to play in the F'n NFL!!!!!!!!! With how OLD our D is this has to be the choice if he is there...the guy will play for WELL over a decade for the team that selects him! He is considered by many the biggest potential pick in the draft, and the sexiest. He would excel RIGHT away with our front D-line! He would learn from some of the best in the game, and we would have a new leader in the making for our D for the next decade. His presence could mean as much as JT's has for our D.

#2 - Patrick Willis - He has been compared to Ray Lewis..nuff said...haha not quite the guy is a perfectionist...he is never satisfied with his play and that = GREATNESS, he ran a 4.37/4.38 back to back and that is just unheard of for a LB. In his film reel he is seen cutting across the entire field and blazing by all his fellow teammates to make the play...he is EVERYWHERE. He exceeds Zach Thomas if he becomes a Phin when hes day comes...hes another guarentee face of the franchise...

I understand these 2 picks are BOTH defense...and EVERY year I hardcore support picking O in the 1st...but with Cam Cameron we have the ability to go elsewhere with this selection like weve never had before. He is an upgrade himself, he will utilize our players like we have never seen before...he gives us the ability to go BPA!

With my #3 choice considering Russell/Johnson/Quinn*/Adams/Thomas/Landry/Okoye*/Willis* are all gone...I think we HAVE to go need...BPA is just not really the BPA if you know what I mean...I think the other guys are just a little bit too risky to take just cuz they're considered the bpa at this point...we need a strong LT and Levi Brown could very well fill that void we have been missing...but I HATE going based on need because you're always making a slight reach...with that comes disappointment if he doesn't succeed to expectations..I also think Ted Ginn. Jr is a big reach here, he certainly should not be selected at 9...I dont care if we dont like the trade down options come draft day...if were selecting him we better TRADE DOWN! Dont get me wrong...I love the guy and think he would really push/compliment Chambers very well but ever since seeing all these 1st round WR's not do a whole hell of alot in the NFL (most recently Chad Jackson/Santonio Holmes) I dont have faith in them...especially Ohio guys.

Okoye
Willis
Brown

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

#1 - Amobi Okoye - If this guy is here at #9 and Quinn is off the board I think we have to take him! The guy is unreal...his story, his ability on the field, his desire to prove to everyone he "belongs" his whole life...he just wreaks of a Hall of Famer to me. The guy is 19 YEARS OLD...hes younger than me by 1 year and hes about to play in the F'n NFL!!!!!!!!! With how OLD our D is this has to be the choice if he is there...the guy will play for WELL over a decade for the team that selects him! He is considered by many the biggest potential pick in the draft, and the sexiest. He would excel RIGHT away with our front D-line! He would learn from some of the best in the game, and we would have a new leader in the making for our D for the next decade. His presence could mean as much as JT's has for our D.

Well, the problem with that is two-fold.. Okoye is way too small to play NT in our 3-4 defense.. And he is way too short to play DE in our 3-4 ..

When Jimmy Johnson was running the 4-3 defense, then yes.. But Okoye simply doesn't fit into our current defensive philosophy at all..

Now Willis, I'd much rather have this guy.. He fits into a 3-4 defense to a tee.. And Zach will only be good for about another year at his age..

 

[Phinfan31]

Well, the problem with that is two-fold.. Okoye is way too small to play NT in our 3-4 defense.. And he is way too short to play DE in our 3-4 ..

When Jimmy Johnson was running the 4-3 defense, then yes.. But Okoye simply doesn't fit into our current defensive philosophy at all..

Now Willis, I'd much rather have this guy.. He fits into a 3-4 defense to a tee.. And Zach will only be good for about another year at his age..

I never looked at how he'd fit in our system...good point...but he is 6'2...thats as tall if not taller than the average QB...hes 300 LBs of pure will and relentlessness...I think he will succeed wherever he goes. I understand theres a big difference between the 3-4 and 4-3...but we currently run both and he has ALOT to learn anyway...maybe he wont be a big contributer right away but he will one day

 

[NPG]

The Real Analysis

I want Quinn as much as the next supporter...but after reading the thread titled "Enough of the trade up to 6 crap" I've changed my perspective on trading to that spot (the only spot I would consider trading to for Quinn) so I think we wait it out...we hope he falls. That would be the wise decision...as much as I want Quinn it would be for the best...we just cant afford to - A. Spend picks we desperately need, and B. pay a prospect like Quinn THAT much money! So this is the deal...what IF hes gone!? What do we do!? Consider we CANT trade down, we've looked at our options and they're just not worth it or appealing...who do you take????

I am 99% positive Russell,Johnson,Adams,Thomas, AND Landry are not going to fall to us...so you can forget them. You can argue for Landry but theres just no way the Vikes and Falcons pass on him...I dont think so anyway, if you are stubborn an want to support your case then fine

So with our options left lets go with our top3 choices in order of our desire if we were in charge:

#1 - Amobi Okoye - If this guy is here at #9 and Quinn is off the board I think we have to take him! The guy is unreal...his story, his ability on the field, his desire to prove to everyone he "belongs" his whole life...he just wreaks of a Hall of Famer to me. The guy is 19 YEARS OLD...hes younger than me by 1 year and hes about to play in the F'n NFL!!!!!!!!! With how OLD our D is this has to be the choice if he is there...the guy will play for WELL over a decade for the team that selects him! He is considered by many the biggest potential pick in the draft, and the sexiest. He would excel RIGHT away with our front D-line! He would learn from some of the best in the game, and we would have a new leader in the making for our D for the next decade. His presence could mean as much as JT's has for our D.

#2 - Patrick Willis - He has been compared to Ray Lewis..nuff said...haha not quite the guy is a perfectionist...he is never satisfied with his play and that = GREATNESS, he ran a 4.37/4.38 back to back and that is just unheard of for a LB. In his film reel he is seen cutting across the entire field and blazing by all his fellow teammates to make the play...he is EVERYWHERE. He exceeds Zach Thomas if he becomes a Phin when hes day comes...hes another guarentee face of the franchise...

I understand these 2 picks are BOTH defense...and EVERY year I hardcore support picking O in the 1st...but with Cam Cameron we have the ability to go elsewhere with this selection like weve never had before. He is an upgrade himself, he will utilize our players like we have never seen before...he gives us the ability to go BPA!

With my #3 choice considering Russell/Johnson/Quinn*/Adams/Thomas/Landry/Okoye*/Willis* are all gone...I think we HAVE to go need...BPA is just not really the BPA if you know what I mean...I think the other guys are just a little bit too risky to take just cuz they're considered the bpa at this point...we need a strong LT and Levi Brown could very well fill that void we have been missing...but I HATE going based on need because you're always making a slight reach...with that comes disappointment if he doesn't succeed to expectations..I also think Ted Ginn. Jr is a big reach here, he certainly should not be selected at 9...I dont care if we dont like the trade down options come draft day...if were selecting him we better TRADE DOWN! Dont get me wrong...I love the guy and think he would really push/compliment Chambers very well but ever since seeing all these 1st round WR's not do a whole hell of alot in the NFL (most recently Chad Jackson/Santonio Holmes) I dont have faith in them...especially Ohio guys.

Okoye
Willis
Brown

The real analysis needs to be whether we want Quinn or Levi Brown. Here is the breakdown between 1993 and 2004 of tackles versus quarterbacks in the first 15 picks.

QB's 18
OT's 21


Great Players:
QB Palmer (so far)
Mcnabb

 

[cornell]

Well, the problem with that is two-fold.. Okoye is way too small to play NT in our 3-4 defense.. And he is way too short to play DE in our 3-4 ..

When Jimmy Johnson was running the 4-3 defense, then yes.. But Okoye simply doesn't fit into our current defensive philosophy at all..

Now Willis, I'd much rather have this guy.. He fits into a 3-4 defense to a tee.. And Zach will only be good for about another year at his age..

Well not that I am saying we should take him, but Zach was thought of as being way to short to play his position and be successful in the NFL. Obviously this was wrong. The age issue is a huge plus, getting an extra couple years out of a player. I (and the rest of us) can say/wish for anything I want but it will come down to what Cam and Mueller decide is the best option. Have to have faith in the FO/ coaching staff or makes it that much harder to be optomistic about season.

 

[NPG]

Sorry...

Great Qb's: Palmer, Mcnabb, Manning. That's it. Only one has led his team to a Super Bowl win.

Good QB's: Roethlisberger, Vick, Mcnair, Bledsoe and the always underrated Kerry Collins. Of those, only one has led his team to a Super Bowl win, Roethlisberger.

Average: Rivers, Manning, Carr (he really was ok for a terrible team), and Dilfer.


Bums: Harrington, Couch, Smith, Leaf, Shuler, Mirer.

Great OT's: Samuels, Turley (before injury), W. Jones, Pace, Ogden, Willie Anderson, Boselli, Roaf.

Good OT's: L. Davis, Mckinney, Tait, T. Thomas, Gandy, B. Hopkins, Kennedy.

Average: Gross, L. Jones, K. Walker

Bums: Gallery, M. Williams, B. Williams.

So you have a much better chance of getting a contributing OT than a Qb and the downside if you miss on the QB is enormous. Look at most Superbowl teams and they were led by solid QBs (not great ones), many times who were not drafted by the team they led to the Superbowl. The OT's almost always led the team that they were by. See Jones, Pace, Ogden, Roaf (though no Superbowl.) Unfortunatley for the Dolphins, I'm not in their draft room. The best thing that can happen is that Quinn goes early so we don't have to make that choice. Our worst case scenario has Levi Brown and Landry being taken before our pick. If that happens we need to vacate the number 9 pick if at all possible.

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

Well not that I am saying we should take him, but Zach was thought of as being way to short to play his position and be successful in the NFL. .

What you fail to realize is it's a different position.. Show me a NT in a 3-4 defense that's only 300 lbs.. Secondly, show me a DE in a 3-4 that's only 6-1 and wide like Okoye is.. You won't find it..

You do realize a D-Lineman in a 3-4 defense has to mostly play 2 gaps don't you ?? And a short one from the outer edge, and a light one inside will get eaten alive with the O-lines in the NFL.. If Miami was running a predominant 4-3 defense it would be a different story..

Linebacker is a totally different position.. Your argument is not relevant whatsoever.. Your argument is a convoluted one at best because there have been plenty of successful shorter type of LB's in this league.. But there have not been successful defensive lineman in a 3-4 defense with Okoye's stature.

If Miami wants a D-lineman in the first round.. They ought to get Carriker for DE in a 3-4 with his height.. Or get Branch for NT in the middle with his size.. These are ideal players for a d-line in a 3-4 .. NOT Okoye.. Far from it..

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

*double post*

 

[Phanatical]

I want Quinn as much as the next supporter...but after reading the thread titled "Enough of the trade up to 6 crap" I've changed my perspective on trading to that spot (the only spot I would consider trading to for Quinn) so I think we wait it out...we hope he falls. That would be the wise decision...as much as I want Quinn it would be for the best...we just cant afford to - A. Spend picks we desperately need, and B. pay a prospect like Quinn THAT much money! So this is the deal...what IF hes gone!? What do we do!? Consider we CANT trade down, we've looked at our options and they're just not worth it or appealing...who do you take????

I am 99% positive Russell,Johnson,Adams,Thomas, AND Landry are not going to fall to us...so you can forget them. You can argue for Landry but theres just no way the Vikes and Falcons pass on him...I dont think so anyway, if you are stubborn an want to support your case then fine

So with our options left lets go with our top3 choices in order of our desire if we were in charge:

#1 - Amobi Okoye - If this guy is here at #9 and Quinn is off the board I think we have to take him! The guy is unreal...his story, his ability on the field, his desire to prove to everyone he "belongs" his whole life...he just wreaks of a Hall of Famer to me. The guy is 19 YEARS OLD...hes younger than me by 1 year and hes about to play in the F'n NFL!!!!!!!!! With how OLD our D is this has to be the choice if he is there...the guy will play for WELL over a decade for the team that selects him! He is considered by many the biggest potential pick in the draft, and the sexiest. He would excel RIGHT away with our front D-line! He would learn from some of the best in the game, and we would have a new leader in the making for our D for the next decade. His presence could mean as much as JT's has for our D.

#2 - Patrick Willis - He has been compared to Ray Lewis..nuff said...haha not quite the guy is a perfectionist...he is never satisfied with his play and that = GREATNESS, he ran a 4.37/4.38 back to back and that is just unheard of for a LB. In his film reel he is seen cutting across the entire field and blazing by all his fellow teammates to make the play...he is EVERYWHERE. He exceeds Zach Thomas if he becomes a Phin when hes day comes...hes another guarentee face of the franchise...

I understand these 2 picks are BOTH defense...and EVERY year I hardcore support picking O in the 1st...but with Cam Cameron we have the ability to go elsewhere with this selection like weve never had before. He is an upgrade himself, he will utilize our players like we have never seen before...he gives us the ability to go BPA!

With my #3 choice considering Russell/Johnson/Quinn*/Adams/Thomas/Landry/Okoye*/Willis* are all gone...I think we HAVE to go need...BPA is just not really the BPA if you know what I mean...I think the other guys are just a little bit too risky to take just cuz they're considered the bpa at this point...we need a strong LT and Levi Brown could very well fill that void we have been missing...but I HATE going based on need because you're always making a slight reach...with that comes disappointment if he doesn't succeed to expectations..I also think Ted Ginn. Jr is a big reach here, he certainly should not be selected at 9...I dont care if we dont like the trade down options come draft day...if were selecting him we better TRADE DOWN! Dont get me wrong...I love the guy and think he would really push/compliment Chambers very well but ever since seeing all these 1st round WR's not do a whole hell of alot in the NFL (most recently Chad Jackson/Santonio Holmes) I dont have faith in them...especially Ohio guys.

Okoye
Willis
Brown

If Quinn is gone they go with Leon Hall and then draft a QB in round 2, 3 or 4 (Edwards, Kolb, Stanton, or Smith).

GO PHINS~!

 

[Phinfan31]

The real analysis needs to be whether we want Quinn or Levi Brown. Here is the breakdown between 1993 and 2004 of tackles versus quarterbacks in the first 15 picks.

QB's 18
OT's 21


Great Players:
QB Palmer (so far)
Mcnabb

EDIT: Glad to see you spent some more time breaking down the good QBs/OTs...I still disagree, because you still don't list a ton of great/good QBs...Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper are 2 that come to mind immediately...theres alot out there. Both of these 2 guys have been to the probowl and been the face of their franchise...(especially C-pep from 99-04) and he was selected 11th overall...I think your mind is set on OT being more successful than QB in the 1st round and when it comes to %'s...maybe you're right...since OT is such a DIRE need teams reach to get them in the 1st when they really shouldnt...same can be said about the QB position, but I think it all comes down to the evaluators and the talent of the individual, not to mention all the intangibles that cannot be identified until a player reaches the NFL. Thanks for goin back and taking the time my friend! Lets hope for a good draft.

 

[finfan54]

I want Quinn as much as the next supporter...but after reading the thread titled "Enough of the trade up to 6 crap" I've changed my perspective on trading to that spot (the only spot I would consider trading to for Quinn) so I think we wait it out...we hope he falls. That would be the wise decision...as much as I want Quinn it would be for the best...we just cant afford to - A. Spend picks we desperately need, and B. pay a prospect like Quinn THAT much money! So this is the deal...what IF hes gone!? What do we do!? Consider we CANT trade down, we've looked at our options and they're just not worth it or appealing...who do you take????

I am 99% positive Russell,Johnson,Adams,Thomas, AND Landry are not going to fall to us...so you can forget them. You can argue for Landry but theres just no way the Vikes and Falcons pass on him...I dont think so anyway, if you are stubborn an want to support your case then fine

So with our options left lets go with our top3 choices in order of our desire if we were in charge:

#1 - Amobi Okoye - If this guy is here at #9 and Quinn is off the board I think we have to take him! The guy is unreal...his story, his ability on the field, his desire to prove to everyone he "belongs" his whole life...he just wreaks of a Hall of Famer to me. The guy is 19 YEARS OLD...hes younger than me by 1 year and hes about to play in the F'n NFL!!!!!!!!! With how OLD our D is this has to be the choice if he is there...the guy will play for WELL over a decade for the team that selects him! He is considered by many the biggest potential pick in the draft, and the sexiest. He would excel RIGHT away with our front D-line! He would learn from some of the best in the game, and we would have a new leader in the making for our D for the next decade. His presence could mean as much as JT's has for our D.

#2 - Patrick Willis - He has been compared to Ray Lewis..nuff said...haha not quite the guy is a perfectionist...he is never satisfied with his play and that = GREATNESS, he ran a 4.37/4.38 back to back and that is just unheard of for a LB. In his film reel he is seen cutting across the entire field and blazing by all his fellow teammates to make the play...he is EVERYWHERE. He exceeds Zach Thomas if he becomes a Phin when hes day comes...hes another guarentee face of the franchise...

I understand these 2 picks are BOTH defense...and EVERY year I hardcore support picking O in the 1st...but with Cam Cameron we have the ability to go elsewhere with this selection like weve never had before. He is an upgrade himself, he will utilize our players like we have never seen before...he gives us the ability to go BPA!

With my #3 choice considering Russell/Johnson/Quinn*/Adams/Thomas/Landry/Okoye*/Willis* are all gone...I think we HAVE to go need...BPA is just not really the BPA if you know what I mean...I think the other guys are just a little bit too risky to take just cuz they're considered the bpa at this point...we need a strong LT and Levi Brown could very well fill that void we have been missing...but I HATE going based on need because you're always making a slight reach...with that comes disappointment if he doesn't succeed to expectations..I also think Ted Ginn. Jr is a big reach here, he certainly should not be selected at 9...I dont care if we dont like the trade down options come draft day...if were selecting him we better TRADE DOWN! Dont get me wrong...I love the guy and think he would really push/compliment Chambers very well but ever since seeing all these 1st round WR's not do a whole hell of alot in the NFL (most recently Chad Jackson/Santonio Holmes) I dont have faith in them...especially Ohio guys.

Okoye
Willis
Brown

Brown is not a reach at 9. Houston will take him at 10. How is that a reach? It is a need yes, but Brown is very well worth the pick at 9. Just watched him again today in Senior Bowl. Levi Brown = Tarrik Glenn. And just imagine if we get another OL in second round at G that gives us a one-two punch ala Richmond Webb/Keith Sims. I hear what your sayin 31, but have no fear of reach with Brown. The Pittsburgh Steelers and Houston Texans will bum out if we take Brown, trust me.

 

[Phinfan31]

Brown is not a reach at 9. Houston will take him at 10. How is that a reach? It is a need yes, but Brown is very well worth the pick at 9. Just watched him again today in Senior Bowl. Levi Brown = Tarrik Glenn. And just imagine if we get another OL in second round at G that gives us a one-two punch ala Richmond Webb/Keith Sims. I hear what your sayin 31, but have no fear of reach with Brown. The Pittsburgh Steelers and Houston Texans will bum out if we take Brown, trust me.

Well, you're right. It's just OT seems to be a position that has been hard for scouts to nail on the head..ie. Robert Gallery. Levi Brown is the next best OL-man in the draft but his stock has being falling and Staleys has been rising...I never really looked at Brown in the Senior Bowl, was concentrating more on Patrick Willis at the time. I'll have to check him out, thanks for that.

BTW - I think Houston really wants Staley...and Pitt wants Levi Brown, if we pass him up...I think Pitt trades up for him with Houston..and they select Staley with the 16th! Thats how its goin down in my Mock anyway...

 

[Phinfan31]

:koolbang: