Weiss takes stab at Saban?

[spydertl79]

Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis says he has no interest in any NFL jobs, although his name keeps surfacing as a possible candidate, most recently in media reports about the New York Giants.
"I can only say it so many times," Weis said. "The best part about this, whether it's the Giants or any other team, here's the best part -- every coach is perceived to be a liar. Every coach is perceived to be a liar. 'Well, Weis will say it, but we really shouldn't believe him because he's a liar.' I'm just using me as an example. Well, believe it or not, there are some people who aren't liars."

 

[DonShula84]

I read that quote earlier and didnt think of Saban but maybe he is refering to that. If so I like him even more lol

 

[COMEBACKRICKY]

lmao. yeah i think he was reffering to saban, but saban really isnt the only coach that done that. there was umm.. that...who...umm.... im sure someone else has done it recently right?

 

[Phalanx]

If Weiss was taking a shot at Saban, he has a short memory, since his pal Bill Belicheck did a whole lot worse than Saban when he took that Pats head coaching job.

I think people need to cut Saban some slack; he was in a tough spot. If he had quit or admitted interviewing with Alabama all along, people would be ripping on him for not being committed. This fiasco is more the fault of the overactive media than anyone.

To me, it's like when you are first starting to like a girl, and someone keeps asking you, "Are you guys dating?" How many of us would say "No!" in that situation and then end up dating afterwards? Sometimes, it's just easier to give an overly-simplistic answer to a complicated question.

I know people are mad because Saban left, but from his perspective, he probably made a career-saving decision. He left while his stock was still very high, which will help him in recruiting, I have no doubt. I think the honeymoon was just about over in Miami anyway; this offseason was going to bring out a lot of Saban detractors.

Just my opinion.

 

[finswin56]

If Weiss was taking a shot at Saban, he has a short memory, since his pal Bill Belicheck did a whole lot worse than Saban when he took that Pats head coaching job.

I think people need to cut Saban some slack; he was in a tough spot. If he had quit or admitted interviewing with Alabama all along, people would be ripping on him for not being committed. This fiasco is more the fault of the overactive media than anyone.

To me, it's like when you are first starting to like a girl, and someone keeps asking you, "Are you guys dating?" How many of us would say "No!" in that situation and then end up dating afterwards? Sometimes, it's just easier to give an overly-simplistic answer to a complicated question.

I know people are mad because Saban left, but from his perspective, he probably made a career-saving decision. He left while his stock was still very high, which will help him in recruiting, I have no doubt. I think the honeymoon was just about over in Miami anyway; this offseason was going to bring out a lot of Saban detractors.

Just my opinion.

No we don't, and he doesn't deserve one inch of slack. He lied, and NO ONE forced him to lie. Coaches go through this type of thing all the time, only those with certain character issues lie. No Comment... anything you like, but not a lie. Lieing because he didn't know what else to say is childish. That is what my son does when I corner him on something he did wrong. It's not something an accountable adult says.

And no again. Most of us don't want him here if his heart isn't here.
We're "mad" because of HOW he left: a liar and coward. Not only did he lie to the public, but you do realize (more childish behavior here) that Saban was so spineless that he told his assistants he was leaving on a conference call! How'd he tell the players? EMAIL! Not to mention that he didn't even show up to the press conference. Oh I know, cut him some slack because would have been so mean to him at the press conference. Tough ****. You treat the media like children for two years, then you lie to them. Time to show up to your press conference and face it like a man. Not time to run away from adversity like a child.

 

[Marino2Clayton]

No we don't, and he doesn't deserve one inch of slack. He lied, and NO ONE forced him to lie. Coaches go through this type of thing all the time, only those with certain character issues lie. No Comment... anything you like, but not a lie. Lieing because he didn't know what else to say is childish. That is what my son does when I corner him on something he did wrong. It's not something an accountable adult says.

And no again. Most of us don't want him here if his heart isn't here.
We're "mad" because of HOW he left: a liar and coward. Not only did he lie to the public, but you do realize (more childish behavior here) that Saban was so spineless that he told his assistants he was leaving on a conference call! How'd he tell the players? EMAIL! Not to mention that he didn't even show up to the press conference. Oh I know, cut him some slack because would have been so mean to him at the press conference. Tough ****. You treat the media like children for two years, then you lie to them. Time to show up to your press conference and face it like a man. Not time to run away from adversity like a child.

Amen brother !!!!

 

[Phalanx]

No we don't, and he doesn't deserve one inch of slack. He lied, and NO ONE forced him to lie. Coaches go through this type of thing all the time, only those with certain character issues lie. No Comment... anything you like, but not a lie. Lieing because he didn't know what else to say is childish. That is what my son does when I corner him on something he did wrong. It's not something an accountable adult says.

And no again. Most of us don't want him here if his heart isn't here.
We're "mad" because of HOW he left: a liar and coward. Not only did he lie to the public, but you do realize (more childish behavior here) that Saban was so spineless that he told his assistants he was leaving on a conference call! How'd he tell the players? EMAIL! Not to mention that he didn't even show up to the press conference. Oh I know, cut him some slack because would have been so mean to him at the press conference. Tough ****. You treat the media like children for two years, then you lie to them. Time to show up to your press conference and face it like a man. Not time to run away from adversity like a child.

So...you aren't mad that he left, only that he said he wasn't going to leave, but then changed his mind? That seems a little on the petty side to me, but whatever. Personally, I think fans are mad at Saban because he is in a great gig now, and Miami is probably not going to be a winner for some years to come. If he'd stayed, you could blame him for the inevitable losing, but as it is, he will be safely away from it and another scapegoat will have to be found. How very inconvenient.

As I said, Bill Belicheck was much worse about representing his intentions, but nobody remembers that now because he's won Superbowls since then. I think that Saban will ultimately be judged on how Alabama does during his tenure there, rather than on this nonsense about how he 'lied to the American people', blah blah blah. There is no good way to break up, but Saban left plenty of time for the Dolphins to find a new coach before the draft and camps, etc. As for how he treated the media, I think that most media are a bunch of skunks anyway. They shamelessly ask provacative questions, trying to stir the pot and conjure up stories so that they can make a name for themselves...I don't have a problem with Saban keeping them at arm's length at all. Any normal human gets pretty sick of answering the same questions over and over.

 

[finswin56]

So...you aren't mad that he left, only that he said he wasn't going to leave, but then changed his mind? That seems a little on the petty side to me, but whatever. Personally, I think fans are mad at Saban because he is in a great gig now, and Miami is probably not going to be a winner for some years to come. If he'd stayed, you could blame him for the inevitable losing, but as it is, he will be safely away from it and another scapegoat will have to be found. How very inconvenient.

I don't know what to tell man, but your ideas speak a lot more for you than for other fans. You "think" people are mad because he has a "great gig?" Get real. He could have left for Marshall and the sentiment would not have changed. I guess you're normally pretty liberal with the use of "great". Alabama is only a great gig if you're a 'Bama fan. The emotions are running high for Miami fans because he got the majority of us to buy into him and his philosophy. How he has handled himself is in stark contrast to that philosophy. Not only were we lied to, but the past two years have been a waste. The man we put our hopes in turned out to be a louse. It has nothing at all to do with where he's going. Integrity, honesty, loyalty, and commitment turned into lying and cowardice. But, I guess we shouldn't have any higher expectations from our head coach :rolleyes2 It's not like any of us grew up with Don Shula as the face of the franchise or anything.

You must be a different kind of fan. Most fans I know want success. You seem to think having a scape goat is what fans want. Most fans have higher expectations than that. But, that would explain why none of this bothers you and why you thing Saban deserves some slack. If you have no expectations, other than failure, your standards aren't high enough to be troubled with this whole mess

As I said, Bill Belichick was much worse about representing his intentions, but nobody remembers that now because he's won Superbowls since then. I think that Saban will ultimately be judged on how Alabama does during his tenure there, rather than on this nonsense about how he 'lied to the American people', blah blah blah. There is no good way to break up, but Saban left plenty of time for the Dolphins to find a new coach before the draft and camps, etc. As for how he treated the media, I think that most media are a bunch of skunks anyway. They shamelessly ask provacative questions, trying to stir the pot and conjure up stories so that they can make a name for themselves...I don't have a problem with Saban keeping them at arm's length at all. Any normal human gets pretty sick of answering the same questions over and over.

I love it when people try to make their case by bringing up completely irrelevant thoughts. Belicheck has never had any bearing on what has transpired, or how anyone feels about it. Nothing about his time with the Jets matters here in the least. Think what you want about the media, my point was that this man of integrity wasn't man enough to face the same media that he belittled for two years.
'lied to the American people'? Where did you get that? Nothing like embellishment to dress up a weak argument.

I guess I'll have to go through life being petty with my lofty expectations of integrity. Just as you'll go through life feeling so superior because you trust no one and expect nothing of them. Unfortunately, you will be missing something.

After reading your post, and reviewing the "points" you chose to make, it's quite clear that the focus of your original argument doesn't hold water.
Just remember, when you want to make an argument, no matter how weak and pointless it is, you can always fall back on invention, hyperbole, and distraction.

 

[Phalanx]

I don't know what to tell man, but your ideas speak a lot more for you than for other fans. You "think" people are mad because he has a "great gig?" Get real. He could have left for Marshall and the sentiment would not have changed. I guess you're normally pretty liberal with the use of "great". Alabama is only a great gig if you're a 'Bama fan. The emotions are running high for Miami fans because he got the majority of us to buy into him and his philosophy. How he has handled himself is in stark contrast to that philosophy. Not only were we lied to, but the past two years have been a waste. The man we put our hopes in turned out to be a louse. It has nothing at all to do with where he's going. Integrity, honesty, loyalty, and commitment turned into lying and cowardice. But, I guess we shouldn't have any higher expectations from our head coach :rolleyes2 It's not like any of us grew up with Don Shula as the face of the franchise or anything.

You must be a different kind of fan. Most fans I know want success. You seem to think having a scape goat is what fans want. Most fans have higher expectations than that. But, that would explain why none of this bothers you and why you thing Saban deserves some slack. If you have no expectations, other than failure, your standards aren't high enough to be troubled with this whole mess


I love it when people try to make their case by bringing up completely irrelevant thoughts. Belicheck has never had any bearing on what has transpired, or how anyone feels about it. Nothing about his time with the Jets matters here in the least. Think what you want about the media, my point was that this man of integrity wasn't man enough to face the same media that he belittled for two years.
'lied to the American people'? Where did you get that? Nothing like embellishment to dress up a weak argument.

I guess I'll have to go through life being petty with my lofty expectations of integrity. Just as you'll go through life feeling so superior because you trust no one and expect nothing of them. Unfortunately, you will be missing something.

After reading your post, and reviewing the "points" you chose to make, it's quite clear that the focus of your original argument doesn't hold water.
Just remember, when you want to make an argument, no matter how weak and pointless it is, you can always fall back on invention, hyperbole, and distraction.

LOL. Talk about going off the deep end. Alrighty then.

I understand the argument about integrity, and even agree with it to some extent, but I think you may be confusing a lack of integrity with indecisiveness. It seems clear to me that Saban preferred the college atmosphere to the pros and that after mulling it over for awhile, he decided that this was the best time to go back. You don't think Alabama is a good gig? Saban just got a record contract, he's in prime recruiting country for making a splash on the national scene, and he has the chance to pick up a program that has been down for a number of years, making it unlikely that people will be calling for his head if he loses a few games. I don't know how that situation could be much better from a coaching standpoint.

The reason that I brought up Belicheck is because this thread was specifically focused on Charlie Weiss's opinion of Saban. I think Belicheck is relevant because Weiss certainly didn't have any qualms about working with him after his bout of indecisiveness which many thought was lying.

You are right though that I am a different kind of fan. I am not a Miami homer, and I don't look at coaches as Messiah figures. I think that view is outdated, particularly in this age where a coach is fired after a few bad seasons, even in college sometimes. A coach has to think about what is best for his career, and to me, Saban's decision was a natural one. He made himself available to fulfill his contract, but Miami ownership did not require it of him. Maybe that wasn't very Shula-like, but I think holding a coach to that standard is one-sided and anachronistic. Sports don't work that way anymore (I wish they did). I doubt whether there are any coaches in the league with a tenure with one team as long as Shula's with the Dolphins. The longest tenure I can think of is Cowher with the Steelers, and guess what? He is expected to leave, and guess what else? Lots of Miami fans don't mind a bit; in fact, they'd love to have him. That's the way it works in this era. The truth is, if Saban had stayed, he would likely have been fired in another year or two anyway for not winning. Why would he stay around for that, particularly if he wanted to go back to college anyway? As I said, his stock was still very high, so he made hay while the sun was still shining. I don't have a problem with it if WH was willing to let him go.

I think you can safely say this about Nick Saban: He was never a Dolphin first. That may be enough to condemn him in many fans' eyes, until you realize that this statement is also true of 99% of the players on the Dolphins as well. Welcome to football in the 21st century.

 

[finswin56]

LOL. Talk about going off the deep end. Alrighty then.

I understand the argument about integrity, and even agree with it to some extent, but I think you may be confusing a lack of integrity with indecisiveness. It seems clear to me that Saban preferred the college atmosphere to the pros and that after mulling it over for awhile, he decided that this was the best time to go back. You don't think Alabama is a good gig? Saban just got a record contract, he's in prime recruiting country for making a splash on the national scene, and he has the chance to pick up a program that has been down for a number of years, making it unlikely that people will be calling for his head if he loses a few games. I don't know how that situation could be much better from a coaching standpoint.

I don't think I've confused a thing. Can you honestly believe that the wheels were not already in motion? You just don't slap together a $32 million guaranteed deal in a couple of days. If Saban had really been telling Alabama no, no, no. Do you really think they would have put their coaching search on such a glaring pause? They were waiting for Miami's season to end, because they knew Nick was very interested. If signing Saban wasn't a very strong possibility, they would have continued to interview many coaches, and float other rumors to the media about their future coach. During the great "pause" top recruits were committing left and right. If Alabama was going to let recruits know they weren't going to sign a coach right away, they had better be sure to hit a homerun. Signing Saban was darn near a grand slam for Alabama.

Just to clarify, you said Alabama was a "great gig", I disagreed with "great". It is good. The reason it's not great, and could be better is the myopic fan base. Did you that Saban needed 10 armed security guards when his family arrived? My God! There was also a 5 car pile-up caused by gawking fans at Saban's caravan. That's just the start. They will need security when going out in public. Terry Saban had better make sure she doesn't go to the store in here sweats, and better be even more sure she is sweeter than southern tea to everyone she runs across. If not that will be the topic of conversation for the next week on every radio station. Alabama will literally love Saban to death. They're like a psycho girlfriend.

The reason that I brought up Belicheck is because this thread was specifically focused on Charlie Weiss's opinion of Saban. I think Belicheck is relevant because Weiss certainly didn't have any qualms about working with him after his bout of indecisiveness which many thought was lying.

You are right though that I am a different kind of fan. I am not a Miami homer, and I don't look at coaches as Messiah figures. I think that view is outdated, particularly in this age where a coach is fired after a few bad seasons, even in college sometimes. A coach has to think about what is best for his career, and to me, Saban's decision was a natural one. He made himself available to fulfill his contract, but Miami ownership did not require it of him. Maybe that wasn't very Shula-like, but I think holding a coach to that standard is one-sided and anachronistic. Sports don't work that way anymore (I wish they did). I doubt whether there are any coaches in the league with a tenure with one team as long as Shula's with the Dolphins. The longest tenure I can think of is Cowher with the Steelers, and guess what? He is expected to leave, and guess what else? Lots of Miami fans don't mind a bit; in fact, they'd love to have him. That's the way it works in this era. The truth is, if Saban had stayed, he would likely have been fired in another year or two anyway for not winning. Why would he stay around for that, particularly if he wanted to go back to college anyway? As I said, his stock was still very high, so he made hay while the sun was still shining. I don't have a problem with it if WH was willing to let him go.

I think you can safely say this about Nick Saban: He was never a Dolphin first. That may be enough to condemn him in many fans' eyes, until you realize that this statement is also true of 99% of the players on the Dolphins as well. Welcome to football in the 21st century.

Buying into a coach's philosophy is not making him into a Messiah figure. I don't think most rational fans do that, so I don't know how different that makes you.

I've heard that too about Saban being willing to stay. I hope you don't really buy into that. You're obviously smart enough to see Wayne had no way to keep Saban once he knew Nick didn't want to be here. Wayne is far too savvy a business man to keep someone in his top leadership position when that person doesn't want to be around.

The differences between Saban and Cowher's situations couldn't be further apart. As are the way they've handled themselves in leaving their respective jobs. Which is the biggest issue I've had with this whole thing.
Nick did make the right decision in leaving Miami. There is no doubt. Just as there is no doubt he handled it in a strikingly hypocritical manner.

I agree with the last part of your statement, I don't know how much it applies to our conversation, but it's true.