What Bothers You About Saban? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What Bothers You About Saban?

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Shouright

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I'll list the things that bother me:

1) Why do we have players who aren't "buying into" the system? If the system is so great, why aren't ALL the players buying into it?

2) Why do we need to use the threat of getting rid of players to get them to buy into the system or to motivate them to play their best? Aren't there kinder, gentler ways of motivating and encouraging people? Dick Vermeil seems to do it pretty well. In other words, do we really need to create an authoritarian environment (i.e., "If you don't do as I say I'll punish you") to make players "obey"?

3) If Saban is such a great coach, why doesn't it seem like we're getting players to play the best they ever have in their careers? Other than Zach Thomas, maybe Vonnie Holliday, and all the rookies (who have no precedent to judge them by), is there any player on the team who's playing the best he ever has? And I'm attributing the line play to Houck, not Saban. Saban gets my credit for hiring Houck, but not for the line play. Chambers is the key guy I'm concerned about here. Great coaching would've made him turn the corner IMO -- instead he looks like he's regressed.

4) If Saban is trying to create a tough, physical, ultra-competitive team culture, why did some players think that other players quit in the Cleveland game? Why doesn't this culture seem to be "sticking"?

5) Why is Saban seemingly ultra-defensive with the media after a loss, yet he's VERY open and revealing with them after an impressive win? Watch the PCs after the Saints and Browns games for a true study in contrast.
 
THIS DOES:

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NO SABAN NOOO!!!
 
Nothing bothers me about Saban just give him time hes the best coach for this team and my opinion hes the best coach period..
 
Not much yet, the suckage was going to take place regardless of who's coaching the phins.
 
shouright said:
I'll list the things that bother me:

1) Why do we have players who aren't "buying into" the system? If the system is so great, why aren't ALL the players buying into it?........
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IMO, The lack of buy-in isn't from the fact that the system sucks, it's more because of the fact that some people are just resistant to change - it's human nature.

Some of the guys that aren't performing are guys with large contracts that have gotten used to being paid for not performing. Their mindset is why should I change now, when I'm already getting paid? Or they may even think that they've already proven themselves and are only there to collect a paycheck That's why Saban has to use the threat of being cut. What Saban is trying to do is weed those players out and bring in guys that are hungry and have that desire to prove something. I believe that's why Saban values draft picks so highly, whereas the former regime valued veterans. Unfortunately, veteran free agents run the risk of having lost that desire to prove themselves and may not perform to their potential. Rookies, OTOH may have the desire, but may lack ability, so that's where the tradeoff is.
I'm not sure about the attitude with the media, since I haven't seen all the press conferences...

That's my $0.02

Regards,
 
shouright said:
I'll list the things that bother me:

1) Why do we have players who aren't "buying into" the system? If the system is so great, why aren't ALL the players buying into it?

2) Why do we need to use the threat of getting rid of players to get them to buy into the system or to motivate them to play their best? Aren't there kinder, gentler ways of motivating and encouraging people? Dick Vermeil seems to do it pretty well. In other words, do we really need to create an authoritarian environment (i.e., "If you don't do as I say I'll punish you") to make players "obey"?

3) If Saban is such a great coach, why doesn't it seem like we're getting players to play the best they ever have in their careers? Other than Zach Thomas, maybe Vonnie Holliday, and all the rookies (who have no precedent to judge them by), is there any player on the team who's playing the best he ever has? And I'm attributing the line play to Houck, not Saban. Saban gets my credit for hiring Houck, but not for the line play. Chambers is the key guy I'm concerned about here. Great coaching would've made him turn the corner IMO -- instead he looks like he's regressed.

4) If Saban is trying to create a tough, physical, ultra-competitive team culture, why did some players think that other players quit in the Cleveland game? Why doesn't this culture seem to be "sticking"?

5) Why is Saban seemingly ultra-defensive with the media after a loss, yet he's VERY open and revealing with them after an impressive win? Watch the PCs after the Saints and Browns games for a true study in contrast.
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Not a damn thing.
 
Nothing bothers me about Saban YET! I'll give him a couple of years to turn this franchise around. I think it takes time to turn around a Franchise that has been destroyed. So, I'll tell you what I like. I like listening to the guy speak and tell stories. If it's all talk or whatever, it is still entertaining. The guy tells great stories. I know, I know, this isn't a campfire it's a football team, but with the way the team plays on Sundays, at least I have something to look forward to on Mondays.
 
shouright said:
I'll list the things that bother me:

1) Why do we have players who aren't "buying into" the system? If the system is so great, why aren't ALL the players buying into it?

2) Why do we need to use the threat of getting rid of players to get them to buy into the system or to motivate them to play their best? Aren't there kinder, gentler ways of motivating and encouraging people? Dick Vermeil seems to do it pretty well. In other words, do we really need to create an authoritarian environment (i.e., "If you don't do as I say I'll punish you") to make players "obey"?

3) If Saban is such a great coach, why doesn't it seem like we're getting players to play the best they ever have in their careers? Other than Zach Thomas, maybe Vonnie Holliday, and all the rookies (who have no precedent to judge them by), is there any player on the team who's playing the best he ever has? And I'm attributing the line play to Houck, not Saban. Saban gets my credit for hiring Houck, but not for the line play. Chambers is the key guy I'm concerned about here. Great coaching would've made him turn the corner IMO -- instead he looks like he's regressed.

4) If Saban is trying to create a tough, physical, ultra-competitive team culture, why did some players think that other players quit in the Cleveland game? Why doesn't this culture seem to be "sticking"?

5) Why is Saban seemingly ultra-defensive with the media after a loss, yet he's VERY open and revealing with them after an impressive win? Watch the PCs after the Saints and Browns games for a true study in contrast.
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1. His "system" is basicly being mental tough and competing at your highest level week in and week out. Believing in his schemes is part of the mental toughness. Some players don't believe it is good and that will affect how they play and ultimately how the scheme works. Why don't they believe it is a good system? Good question. Why doesn't everyone believe in all the same things?

2. He's not threatening them he's stating a fact. If you don't play how he wants you won't be here. How they respond is up to them.

3. So good line play = Hudson Houck. But bad WR play = Saban. I take it we have no WR coach for you to rag on? At what point is the player responsible for how he plays?

4. Being tough is tough. If it was easy and didn't require doing it week in and week out to be tough, everyone would be tough. It will take some time but once Saban has tough players here it will stick.

5. Are you happy when we lose? He should get defensive when his calls/decisions are questioned, it means he believed they would work. I don't totally agree that he is so different in how he responds but the questions are a bit more questioning. Plus when you lose you are mad and when you win you are happy. If someone asked you the same questions when you are mad and when you are happy you may respond differently to them.

I don't agree with posts constantly creating negative feelings toward Saban but this one was well writen and civil and brought about some valid points/questions. This is more ofconstructive criticism than just criticizing and that's how negative things should be presented. So although I disagree with some of the things in your post, it was a good post.
 
The fact that he is so intelligent that people of lesser intelligence do not understand what he means and takes what he says totally wrong so they create some crappy threads.
 
shouright said:
1) Why do we have players who aren't "buying into" the system? If the system is so great, why aren't ALL the players buying into it?
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If Saban's system is anything like Belichick's system, then you've got a system where players are being asked to take on multiple roles. In some situations they'll play a support role and in other situations they're asked to make a play. The players that aren't used to being asked to take on a support role are the ones that are probably the most resistant to Saban's system.



shouright said:
2) Why do we need to use the threat of getting rid of players to get them to buy into the system or to motivate them to play their best? Aren't there kinder, gentler ways of motivating and encouraging people? Dick Vermeil seems to do it pretty well. In other words, do we really need to create an authoritarian environment (i.e., "If you don't do as I say I'll punish you") to make players "obey"?
Click to expand...
I don't know if Vermeil is the best example... Ya he won a Super Bowl with the Rams, but both his Rams and Chiefs teams have been known for being pretty soft. The Rams got away with it in a mediocre NFC West, but that approach hasn't worked in the AFC West and it certainly won't work in the AFC East. Saban's doing exactly what Belichick and Parcells did in the building their teams. I think its too early to write off Saban's approach.



shouright said:
3) If Saban is such a great coach, why doesn't it seem like we're getting players to play the best they ever have in their careers?
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...because a lot of those players haven't bought into the system... and it's kind of a snowball effect since this is the kind of system where a few bad players will make everybody else look worse.


shouright said:
4) If Saban is trying to create a tough, physical, ultra-competitive team culture, why did some players think that other players quit in the Cleveland game? Why doesn't this culture seem to be "sticking"?
Click to expand...
Actually all the fingerpointing is the result of Saban's system... It's not my fault, it's somebody else's fault. The players that actually are quitting and complaining are the same ones that will be playing somewhere else next year.
 
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