What ever happened to the HC buying the groceries? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What ever happened to the HC buying the groceries?

HoneyB

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Maybe it's just habit, but I still think of a HC as a powerful football guy who picks his owns players. He and only he is responsible and the buck stops there. I guess that's less common now, but for the life of me I still can't figure out how you consolidate two football minds into one. Or, sometimes three or four.

We had the trifecta before, and it didn't seem to work and in the end nobody was accountable. They said they didn't draft any player they didn't all agree on. That's like going into a restaurant and ending up with chicken fingers and fries, because one guy doesn't like eat fish so the lobster is out of the question, and the other two guys are arguing over getting the porterhouse or the filet minon, so steak is ruled out too.

We got out of that mess and down to two people, Philbin and Ireland. They started out fine, loving each other, with Philbin heavily influencing the process of player acquisition. The results reflected that, as Ireland chose OT Martin described as a "finesse blocker" and a non-Parcells type player who was smart and athletic, and would fit the zbs. Similarly, Lamar Miller was not Ronnie Brown, his thing was speed. FA picks were geared toward same thing, speed. But eventually, the blame game started again. Ireland, we hear, was complaining about Philbin and Sherman's way of running the team, and on Philbins part, I do recall at least one occasion where Philbin waved his hand when asked about players and saying scouting is not his job, that's the GM's job. I thought that was odd at the time, but dismissed it. In retrospect, it seemed to be early indications of CYA happening on both ends.

So here we are again, two people hired separately (Philbin and the unknown GM), who are going to try to work together, and not blame each other when and if we start losing.

So we'll see. Hopefully this new GM will know how to 1) draft players, 2) retain good players already on the roster, and 3) be the kind of guy that FA players would want to deal with.

Really, all I want is one guy who is a mastermind at the game of football, and knows how to handle people around him, and everything else falls into place. Ireland was not that guy. Philbin in year 2 was not that guy, but he could be in year 3 and he'll be the identity of this team. Or, the new GM may be a wiz, and he'll assert himself in the organization to the point where he actually wins the ability to hire/fire the coach. I think Ross is waiting for someone to step up, and this season we'll see.
 
Good idea if the coach is competent but this one has not shown that kind of leadership ability.

I Believe it should reside in one individual only either coach or gm. Personally I would choose the GM.
 
Also, division of labor should theoretically yield better results. A GM should be scouting talent year round while the HC spends a large portion of the year game planning. Overall it should be mutual agreement whenever possible though.
 
Also, division of labor should theoretically yield better results. A GM should be scouting talent year round while the HC spends a large portion of the year game planning. Overall it should be mutual agreement whenever possible though.

Well up to a point is is not working out so well with congress and the senate verses the President is it.
 
The HC has enough responsibilities managing his staff and gameplanning. Let the GM manage all personnel.
 
coach should have final say on cuts unless its a money issue but him shopping for the groceries should not be his job.
He should have a voice
 
First the coach and the GM should decide what's for dinner? Then they both should go buy the groceries.
 
Maybe it's just habit, but I still think of a HC as a powerful football guy who picks his owns players. He and only he is responsible and the buck stops there. I guess that's less common now, but for the life of me I still can't figure out how you consolidate two football minds into one. Or, sometimes three or four.

We had the trifecta before, and it didn't seem to work and in the end nobody was accountable. They said they didn't draft any player they didn't all agree on. That's like going into a restaurant and ending up with chicken fingers and fries, because one guy doesn't like eat fish so the lobster is out of the question, and the other two guys are arguing over getting the porterhouse or the filet minon, so steak is ruled out too.

We got out of that mess and down to two people, Philbin and Ireland. They started out fine, loving each other, with Philbin heavily influencing the process of player acquisition. The results reflected that, as Ireland chose OT Martin described as a "finesse blocker" and a non-Parcells type player who was smart and athletic, and would fit the zbs. Similarly, Lamar Miller was not Ronnie Brown, his thing was speed. FA picks were geared toward same thing, speed. But eventually, the blame game started again. Ireland, we hear, was complaining about Philbin and Sherman's way of running the team, and on Philbins part, I do recall at least one occasion where Philbin waved his hand when asked about players and saying scouting is not his job, that's the GM's job. I thought that was odd at the time, but dismissed it. In retrospect, it seemed to be early indications of CYA happening on both ends.

So here we are again, two people hired separately (Philbin and the unknown GM), who are going to try to work together, and not blame each other when and if we start losing.

So we'll see. Hopefully this new GM will know how to 1) draft players, 2) retain good players already on the roster, and 3) be the kind of guy that FA players would want to deal with.

Really, all I want is one guy who is a mastermind at the game of football, and knows how to handle people around him, and everything else falls into place. Ireland was not that guy. Philbin in year 2 was not that guy, but he could be in year 3 and he'll be the identity of this team. Or, the new GM may be a wiz, and he'll assert himself in the organization to the point where he actually wins the ability to hire/fire the coach. I think Ross is waiting for someone to step up, and this season we'll see.

Dude, your sig is awesome
 
The key is that the GM and coach need to be on the same page talent wise. Whoever the new GM needs to at least have an understanding of what type of player Philbin and his staff want. Based on everything I've seen, Ireland and Philbin had a real disconnect there even without their mutual dislike for each other.
 
Well, the last two times we tried that, it was Wanny and Saban. They both sucked at evaluating talent.
 
I fully agree, everything needs to be in Philbin's hands so that there is not question when we fire him, and there is not the issue whether he was given a fair shake. The way this is going, everyone is meddling with the man's plan, Ross forced him to fire the OC, now he is going to burden him again with the uber GM. Dumb shat again.
 
Philbin said Jonathan Martin wasn't good enough to play LT. Ireland said he was good enough. Ireland was fired. A HC knows what he needs to succeed, and probably more than the GM does. That's all I got for this thread.
 
I am in the crowd that believes the GM should pick the talent and the coach should coach.

Dolphin history is full of evidence to this.

When Miami was on top of the football world in the 70's we had Joe Thomas and Bobby beathard who made many of the decisions on talent that propelled this team to the top, along with Shula's great coaching. When Shula took over total control of the team over his GM the drafts began to get extremely mediocre and sometimes awful.

Jump to Dave Wannstedt and once again you see the folly of the head coach having total control, how many years in a row did we not have first round or second round picks under him?

Coaches are more likely to mortgage the future foolishly for the now...not a good way to build a long term foundation of winning.
 
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