4THand10
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What linebacker will end up with the Miami Dolphins?
- Thread starter 4THand10
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I don't agree. I believe that they are indeed talking to Crowder about an extension. This is just part of good negociations.
Ireland said it himself that talks won't heat up until after the Combines and right before FA.
Lowballing is just a good negociations tactic. It is a way to lower expectations to the client and then finally come to some type of compromise.
Crowder would probably be the best bargain compared to Dansby and Scott.
If you listen to Dansby on the radio, he is just using us and New York as a tactic to bring his price up for ARI. But he is actually interested in re-signing with them.
Same thing with Crowder. He mentioned what he did about getting a STs offer as a means of scaring Parcells and Co. into upping their offer.
Not saying that Crowder will definitely be MIA's starting MLB in 2009. But its not impossible.
Crowder showed this season that he has the ability, potential, and talent to duplicate whatever numbers Scott and Dansby put up.
In fact, Crowder had better numbers than Scott did this season.
So Crowder, who is still young, has his best season in front of him. So just wait. He will put up a season similiar to what Dansby put up this year, in a year or so.
Just give Crowder a stud NT to play behind and you'll see.
Dansby had seasons in his first few seasons where he didn't put up the numbers that Crowder put up this year. So he isn't such an upgrade over Crowder the way many on this forum are making it out to be.
Crowder has as much talent as Scott and Dansby have. They will cost much "more" than Crowder would. So look for Parcells and Co. to attempt to re-sign Crowder after talks pick back up and heat up, like Ireland said at the Senior Bowl.
MIA's priority list probably looks like this: #1) Vernon Carey #2) Yeremiah Bell #3) Channing Crowder #4) Andre Goodman #5) Renaldo Hill.
Why? Because if you look at the draft, where is the best value based on where we draft? FS, CB, G/C, and WR are the best value players pertaining to pick #25. The top 2 ILBs should be gone by pick #25.
Also, even if one of them dropped to pick #25 (which is playing rushing roulette anyways) and we used our pick on a MLB, we risk losing out on the value of quality that pick #25 has at FS, CB, G/C, or WR.
I left out OLB because I feel that what is going to be available at OLB at pick #25 is not that big a difference from what will be available at pick #44 at OLB. So it probably makes more sense to fill another need with a player that is higher rated at his respective position at #25 and wait for the 2nd round to add another OLB (kind of like we did last year by passing on Matt Ryan to fill our LT need and waiting for the 2nd round for a Chad Henne, who they probably felt was not that much different in talent than what Ryan offered)
Now of course if someone ranked higher drops that is an OLB then of course, you take him.
And also, Cam Wake could play a role in waiting to pick another OLB til later in the draft rather than have to pick one at #25. Because whatever will be available at pick #25 at OLB may not be that much better than Wake, if at all....
You can always wait for later in the draft for depth.
Now if Parcells feels that Scott would be a harder hitter and goes after him...he is still risking losing out on a bidding war. But hey, we'll see.
feelthepain
☠️ Banned ☠️
I don't know how much of what Thomas is saying is true about how Parcells feels about Crowder, but we seem to be reading quite a bit about Crowder being allowed to test the market. This also isn't the first time I've read about Parcells thinking there is more talent to be had on the market. Of course this time of year is full of speculation, but you put together the fact the Cahnning wants big money and his big plays are alomost non existent and it's not hard to imagine BP and company would be looking to beef up the ILB positions. They already went out and signed an OLB who's huge and has been abusing the CFL. To me that's the kinda LB's BP wants on this roster, not LB's who just tackle, but big playmakers too.
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
The consistent rumor has been that the Dolphins have actually made him a contract offer but that Crowder believes he is worth more than what they offered and wants to test the free agent waters.
He's a good football player, and nobody in football is in the business of giving up good football players if they don't have to. But if you're looking at the same money for Channing Crowder and Bart Scott, or only a little bit of difference between Channing Crowder and Karlos Dansby...you take Dansby or Scott.
He's a good football player, and nobody in football is in the business of giving up good football players if they don't have to. But if you're looking at the same money for Channing Crowder and Bart Scott, or only a little bit of difference between Channing Crowder and Karlos Dansby...you take Dansby or Scott.
Everyone keeps mentioning that Crowder wants top 5 money. Where did you guys get that information from? This is based on assumptions. No one ever heard from Crowder or his agent nor MIA''s FO that Crowder stated that he wanted top 5 money.
They have just stated that he wants more than they feel he's worth...
That sounds like negociations prior to the heating up period to me...then let's not forget that there "is" an offer on the table made to him. So that is evidence that they actually want him back...
They have just stated that he wants more than they feel he's worth...
That sounds like negociations prior to the heating up period to me...then let's not forget that there "is" an offer on the table made to him. So that is evidence that they actually want him back...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Up until Channing's knee injury, runners were only gaining 3.6 yards per attempt when tackled by Channing Crowder. When you adjust the figures such that any run above 10 yards is capped at 10 yards, so as to avoid one long run screwing up the totals, he was allowing runners to gain 3.3 yards per run. Personally, I like to cap runs because if a runner busts through the LB unit and then gets tackled 48 yards down the field by one of those linebackers, hustling 48 yards down the field and making the tackle is actually a good thing and IMO shouldn't be punished with a bowling-ball-in-the-bath-tub number that is 15x bigger than most of the other recordings.
After the knee, those figures were 4.6 and 4.4, respectively. There was a clear dropoff in his play after his knee injury.
I originally did this study as a comparison of Channing Crowder and Jerod Mayo, the player everyone claims is this uber-rookie that will be an All Pro one day. I can tell you right now that Channing's numbers were more impressive than Mayo's. You can say that's because we put Channing in position to make those plays, but what does that even mean? The Patriots have a FAR better DL than the Dolphins. Our scheme is not at all complicated and many times the coaches and players say that it just depends on the players to make plays. The fact of the matter is, against the run, Channing Crowder made 44 plays on the ball that resulted in a gain of 3 yards or less. He made 30 plays on the ball that resulted in gains of 2 yards or less, and 12 plays on the ball that resulted in a zero gain...just against the run.
Jerod Mayo could not boast as many plays against the run in any one of these categories, though they played the same number of games (and Mayo didn't have to spend 2 of his 16 games injured).
As I said before, the thought that Crowder makes no plays and is horrible, is really, really overdone. That is not the problem in the negotiations. The problem is that he wants about the same money that Bart Scott will get, probably only a little less than Karlos Dansby will get, and if that's the case you'd rather just have Scott or Dansby.
After the knee, those figures were 4.6 and 4.4, respectively. There was a clear dropoff in his play after his knee injury.
I originally did this study as a comparison of Channing Crowder and Jerod Mayo, the player everyone claims is this uber-rookie that will be an All Pro one day. I can tell you right now that Channing's numbers were more impressive than Mayo's. You can say that's because we put Channing in position to make those plays, but what does that even mean? The Patriots have a FAR better DL than the Dolphins. Our scheme is not at all complicated and many times the coaches and players say that it just depends on the players to make plays. The fact of the matter is, against the run, Channing Crowder made 44 plays on the ball that resulted in a gain of 3 yards or less. He made 30 plays on the ball that resulted in gains of 2 yards or less, and 12 plays on the ball that resulted in a zero gain...just against the run.
Jerod Mayo could not boast as many plays against the run in any one of these categories, though they played the same number of games (and Mayo didn't have to spend 2 of his 16 games injured).
As I said before, the thought that Crowder makes no plays and is horrible, is really, really overdone. That is not the problem in the negotiations. The problem is that he wants about the same money that Bart Scott will get, probably only a little less than Karlos Dansby will get, and if that's the case you'd rather just have Scott or Dansby.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
There was a media report to that effect. Might have even come from Peter King, who gets a lot of info from Parcells himself.
Let's not forget the...he "probably" wants part. No one actually really knows what he's asking for.
I believe that they are just lowballing "all" of their FAs because according to Ireland, they are in the preliminaries and talks don't heat up until after the Combines...
hey ck, just a quick question regarding Jarron Gilbert. do you think Parcells views him as his new Leonard Marshall?
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I'll ask him next time we go shopping together. :)
In all seriousness, how the heck should I know what Parcells is thinking? I just know he's a good player.
....but in all seriousness, c'mon CK. u didn't have to do him like that? you know he meant that he wanted to know "your" opinion, not necessarily that you were psychic or anything....Cut the guy some slack...:D
X-Pacolypse
Active Roster
If Crowder does test the free agent market I don't see a lot of teams ponying up for his asking price. It's certainly feasible that Channing comes back here with his tail tucked between his legs, and signs a deal that he's actually worth.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Cut the guy some slack...:D
I'm just kidding around with him. No offense meant, greasy.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
I love how the article acts like Parcells can do no wrong at linbacker.
Last time I checked he was part of the crew that drafted Kevin Burnett and Bobby Carpenter. Im sure he does know linebackers but he is not golden.
Last time I checked he was part of the crew that drafted Kevin Burnett and Bobby Carpenter. Im sure he does know linebackers but he is not golden.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Kevin Burnett is a pretty good player.