What no one says about the OL (& why the future is bleak w/o talent infusion 5-9)

[LDaniel7]

In all the off-season conversations on the OL, one point has been overlooked.

Here it is: The OL ended the season ranked 31st in pass blocking efficiency, which is horrible. But it still masks the truth of just how bad the OL was at providing protection the last half of the year. IF the OL ranked in the top 15 during the first half of the season (it was actually a bit higher), then the OL had to play at the absolute worst clip of all teams -- BY A WIDE MARGIN -- in order for the last 8 games to weight the OL at 31.

People talking about how Dallas Thomas really isn't THAT bad and Colledge and Smith are good backups, etc. -- no way.

You tell me how good the OL backups are at 6-8 and I'll tell you how good your OL is. Because come crunch time, chances are player 6 or 7 will be starting. And here in Miami, by the end of the season, mark it down that 6-8 will be starters.

Which means that Miami seriously needs a massive talent infusion at 5-8 on the OL. Right now, James can be counted on and Pouncey. Albert is a big question mark per health. And Turner completely untested. IF Miami goes into the season w. Dallas Thomas as the "next man up" on the OL, followed by worse players than him on the depth chart, forget about it.

Because Albert has a 50/50 chance of not finishing the season -- nor even starting it on time. And Turner, because the team couldn't work him in, is still essentially a rookie. Team needs a starting OG and a swing tackle who can actually play. And needs to lose sad-sack players that caused the OL to rank below zero in pass blocking the last half of the year.

The future is bleak if Hickey pulls an Ireland this offseason, on the OL.

LD

 

[Gonzo]

In all the off-season conversations on the OL, one point has been overlooked.

Here it is: The OL ended the season ranked 31st in pass blocking efficiency, which is horrible. But it still masks the truth of just how bad the OL was at providing protection the last half of the year. IF the OL ranked in the top 15 during the first half of the season (it was actually a bit higher), then the OL had to play at the absolute worst clip of all teams -- BY A WIDE MARGIN -- in order for the last 8 games to weight the OL at 31.

People talking about how Dallas Thomas really isn't THAT bad and Colledge and Smith are good backups, etc. -- no way.

You tell me how good the OL backups are at 6-8 and I'll tell you how good your OL is. Because come crunch time, chances are player 6 or 7 will be starting. And here in Miami, by the end of the season, mark it down that 6-8 will be starters.

Which means that Miami seriously needs a massive talent infusion at 5-8 on the OL. Right now, James can be counted on and Pouncey. Albert is a big question mark per health. And Turner completely untested. IF Miami goes into the season w. Dallas Thomas as the "next man up" on the OL, followed by worse players than him on the depth chart, forget about it.

Because Albert has a 50/50 chance of not finishing the season -- nor even starting it on time. And Turner, because the team couldn't work him in, is still essentially a rookie. Team needs a starting OG and a swing tackle who can actually play. And needs to lose sad-sack players that caused the OL to rank below zero in pass blocking the last half of the year.

The future is bleak if Hickey pulls an Ireland this offseason, on the OL.

LD

Ireland invested heavily in the OL, he just chose extremely poorly. He certainly didn't ignore the unit and Hickey has already shown that he won't either. I just hope he continues to make better decisions than Ireland and maybe steers clear of the glass free agents this offseason.

And who on earth said Dallas Thomas really isn't THAT bad? Disregard any further assessment by that person from here on out. Colledge is terrible, but Smith is a decent backup. Starter material at the backup positions is a luxury mediocre teams like us simply can't afford. I'd be absolutely okay with Smith filling in for a game or two in a pinch. Even more if necessary so long as Albert is back and/or we have a decent replacement (James and Franklin, hopefully).

If Turner isn't capable, that means we have a much bigger issue in coaching, because he certainly has the talent and intangibles. Fortunately, I trust in Benton, if not the rest of the staff.

 

[LDaniel7]

Ireland invested heavily in the OL, he just chose extremely poorly. He certainly didn't ignore the unit and Hickey has already shown that he won't either. I just hope he continues to make better decisions than Ireland and maybe steers clear of the glass free agents this offseason.

And who on earth said Dallas Thomas really isn't THAT bad? Disregard any further assessment by that person from here on out. Colledge is terrible, but Smith is a decent backup. Starter material at the backup positions is a luxury mediocre teams like us simply can't afford. I'd be absolutely okay with Smith filling in for a game or two in a pinch. Even more if necessary so long as Albert is back and/or we have a decent replacement (James and Franklin, hopefully).

If Turner isn't capable, that means we have a much bigger issue in coaching, because he certainly has the talent and intangibles. Fortunately, I trust in Benton, if not the rest of the staff.

That's a fair take -- but personally, I think that anyone team that spends as many draft picks as Miami, on OL and say, DB, without having solid units as a result, is in trouble.

IF Miami counts on Thomas as next man up, along with Colledge, the season is hosed. Miami needs a true starting OG in the off-season, a true swing OT, and replacements for Thomas and Colledge at 6 and 7. As well as a rookie who can fill in at C.

And as far as people saying that Dallas Thomas isn't that bad, and is a "Potentially Good Backup," man, just read the board. He has his apologists.

LD

 

[Travis34]

No doubt, I agree. Need a heavy infusion of talent. (Along with multiple other non-OL areas)

Im not sure who you're quoting saying Thomas isn't that bad, but if they truly believe that... Well damn.

I'm okay with keeping Shelley as a back up honestly, but his price is ugly

 

[Travis34]

That's a fair take -- but personally, I think that anyone team that spends as many draft picks as Miami, on OL and say, DB, without having solid units as a result, is in trouble.

IF Miami counts on Thomas as next man up, along with Colledge, the season is hosed

And as far as people saying that Dallas Thomas isn't that bad, and is a "Potentially Good Backup," man, just read the board. He has his apologists.

LD

On point about using resources for OL (and db) with nothing to show for it. All we can really do is hope Hickey isn't such a f***ing fool like Ireland. God that bafoon left us in so many
bad spots.

i still don't see that many Thomas apologists... Don't know how many you say there are but I really really hope the actual amount is very low

 

[fishfanmiami]

I don't know of any big Dallas Thomas fans LD. SouthBeach was ok with giving him another chance but that's about it. Most want him gone.
You are right that we've spent a lot on the OL but I say once more into the breach this free agency. Get a top tier guard like Franklin.

 

[GreenMts]

Have to wonder how DT went in the third round . I don't recall that pick being a reach at the time. We should have been able to pick a solid back up on that pick. Don't know how his weakness couldn't have shown up on the scoutng report and tape.

 

[artdnj]

It can be fixed, we need a couple of player's and a bit of luck but it can be done. I'm more worried about the D specifically CB and LB.

 

[gregorygrant83]

I'm not a Dallas Thomas fan, however he has been below average at guard and horrible at tackle. If he does stay on the team for another season it should be at guard only, I would sign an undrafted free agent off the street during the season before I would play Thomas at tackle again.

 

[LDaniel7]

I don't know of any big Dallas Thomas fans LD. SouthBeach was ok with giving him another chance but that's about it. Most want him gone.
You are right that we've spent a lot on the OL but I say once more into the breach this free agency. Get a top tier guard like Franklin.

Totally agree on Franklin.

If Hickey can pull that off, along with upgrading swing tackle in draft -- maybe another FA as well -- infusing spots 6-8 with upside players, then POW! This OL is potentially a strength.

And how long has it been since Miami's OL was a strength of the team? Not in the Tannehill years, that's for sure.

LD

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

I'm not a Dallas Thomas fan, however he has been below average at guard and horrible at tackle. If he does stay on the team for another season it should be at guard only, I would sign an undrafted free agent off the street during the season before I would play Thomas at tackle again.

But Philbin envisions him as a decent swing tackle.

And therein is a huge problem for this team: Philbin's utter inability to analyze and acquire true talent. He has to pick up playmakers already proven by other teams, for the most part.

Which means: OVERPAY for any playmakers and have roster full of scrubs at key positions.

Philbin's MO.

Hope Hickey can be the real thing this off-season.

LD

 

[LDaniel7]

Have to wonder how DT went in the third round . I don't recall that pick being a reach at the time. We should have been able to pick a solid back up on that pick. Don't know how his weakness couldn't have shown up on the scoutng report and tape.

I'll tell you how.

Miami putzed around with trading off picks for moving up. and THEN picked a terrible DB in the second round, thinking that ARMSTREAD would fall to them.

Run on Armstead and other OT in the last few picks before Miami's. They then panicked and picked DALLAS THOMAS, their next best rated on the board -- as swing tackle or guard.

Turns out that PHILBIN and IRELANDS draft strategy and talent evaluation not only sucked, it was worse than anyone could ever imagine: a top 3 pick that can't make an impact in what, three years? And a wasted high pick at DB that is brain dead while on the field, and majorly challenged to make even decent plays down the field against good players. Wasted pick. Wasted pick. Sold out picks. then panic.

That's how you get a roster full of Dallas Thomas like players.

LD

 

[fishfanmiami]

The good news is Hickey wasn't around and probably has little loyalty to Thomas and the two expensive , non productive LB's he inherited. Hope to see them all replaced on the roster this year with better players.

 

[Travis34]

I'll tell you how.

Miami putzed around with trading off picks for moving up. and THEN picked a terrible DB in the second round, thinking that ARMSTREAD would fall to them.

Wasnt sure who you meant by Armstead, so I wiki'd the '13 draft. Is he a starter for the saints now? I'm not ready to agree with you yet that Taylor is a total bust. I'm ready to give him more time because he does have talent... but wow. Looking at that draft.

So many misses. What could have been.

hindsight:
1- Sheldon Richardson
2- Darius Slay
2- Kiko Alonso
3- Keenan Allen (or Armstead since we're discussing him)
3- ....

kind of lost interest in it after I saw our Will Davis pick and puked a little. but you get the point! those are all players around/before our pick. Plenty of others good ones too... Could've had Le'veon Bell too. Or Kenny Stills instead of Sturgis! If we had someone good running the show that year, man we could've really helped our team out. That 2013 draft has to be one of the worst in quite some time for us

 

[FearTheBeard]

Can't make chicken salad out of chicken **** in one season. I get your concerns, but the unit is really going to take a step back without it's best player. I agree the need to find depth, that's one of the biggest offseason goals for me. That's why I'm targeting guys like Ryan Harris as a swing tackle, it was very poor foresight not having a contingency plan in place. Now for the positive aspects, we used a 3rd rounder on a project guard who was also lost to injury early. He's the type of guy you can plug in and have a potentially great reward. Albert will be back early in the season at worst. Pouncey was horrendous as a starting guard...but has proven solid at center where he'll play next year.

Now personally I'm a fan of Shelley as a depth option. The rest can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned. I agree with your premise, don't agree with the bleakness, but I agree overall.

One guy no one is talking about is Stefan Wisniewksi from the Raiders. He's been a center the past 3 years, but played LG his rookie year. If we can't land Franklin, who is likely a 5/40M type of deal, or Clint Boling who is likely a 4/20M sort of guy. Then I'd be looking at Wisniewski who is apparently looking for a deal around $3M annually. Pay him 3/12M to play LG and I like it as a backup plan. Now since our biggest issue is pass protection, if we can't get our hands on any of those three I'd sign Willie Colon. Probably not the scheme fit we want but he's a damn solid, consistent pass protector. There's 4 options that I think will meet our need for a starting caliber guard. I'd rank them in that order, and after Boling it's a dropoff, but we need to land at least one of these guys.

Swing-tackle I've been on the Ryan Harris train for a couple years, and he was an average performer on a lousy KC line last year. He's nothing special, but experience in a zone scheme and held up last year eventhough he was forced into basically being a starter.

I'd keep Shelley for depth. I'd also add a center, I still need to do homework on most of these guys, but A.Q. Shipley I'd look at. Will Montgomery or retaining Satele. Then I'm drafting a mid-round guard, ideally someone with tackle/guard flexibility who has a polished game.

If I were to project our OL:

LT: Albert, James
LG: Turner, Shelley
C: Pouncey, Satele
RG: Boling, Rookie
RT: James, Harris

I'd carry 9 guys, I really would. Wonder how Brenner is coming along...still on our PS.

 

[LDaniel7]

Wasnt sure who you meant by Armstead, so I wiki'd the '13 draft. Is he a starter for the saints now? I'm not ready to agree with you yet that Taylor is a total bust. I'm ready to give him more time because he does have talent... but wow. Looking at that draft.

So many misses. What could have been.

hindsight:
1- Sheldon Richardson
2- Darius Slay
2- Kiko Alonso
3- Keenan Allen (or Armstead since we're discussing him)
3- ....

kind of lost interest in it after I saw our Will Davis pick and puked a little. but you get the point! those are all players around/before our pick. Plenty of others good ones too... Could've had Le'veon Bell too. Or Kenny Stills instead of Sturgis! If we had someone good running the show that year, man we could've really helped our team out. That 2013 draft has to be one of the worst in quite some time for us

Yep. Saints snapped him up a couple spots ahead of Miami and Ireland and Philbin MASSIVELY panicked and snapped up Thomas.

Armstead ended up starting for the Saints that year. And has developed into a solid pro.

I wanted him badly -- would have been so glad to have drafted him in the Taylor spot. Or Miami could have easily had picks to get him if not trading up for a player that is a PROJECT and still doesn't have a position of excellence, three years later!

Bizarre.

LD