What will the AJ haters do...

[PhinBeck]

No, the team had a good won loss record, Jay was a mediocre QB with a top defense and for his first three years here a solid running game.

If Jay had been a top ten QB this team would have gone much further the first couple of years he was here.

Agreed

 

[PhinPhreak]

Sorry but 4 good games in a relief situation is diff than being teh starter that defenses gameplan for.

This is the exact reason why people feel Feeley wasn't worth a 2nd, 4 games in Philly and people thought he was a starter. We shall see this season one way or the other, hopefully it doesn't take Saban 4 years to decide if he does not improve.

 

[djfresh47]

No, the team had a good won loss record, Jay was a mediocre QB with a top defense and for his first three years here a solid running game.

If Jay had been a top ten QB this team would have gone much further the first couple of years he was here.

Regardless like I stated before a Qb is gonna get the credit or the blame. I agree Jay was a very average Qb, but the team played well under him and when he was injured there was a significant dropoff.

 

[rafael]

What the hell is this onslaught? I post I hope AJ does well for your sake and you attack me? Come on guy.

If you say you'd rather have Feeley than Losman at this point you are just moronic. That is beyod homerism. Losman the next Leaf? Wow this couldn't be more off base. Ryan Leaf was a lazy, immature fool who didn't put forth the time or effort needed to be a successful QB. Losman doesn't get a lot of media attention, so people don't know anything about him. People like you. You obviously have no idea who Losman is or what he has done to prepare for the job.

The small amout of media attention he gets has all been very positive. Sportscenter even did a segment on him not too long ago. Read this and you will see how asinine your Losman/Leaf comparison is.

I would rather have AJ than Losman and I'm not a big fan of AJ's. I was among those that really wanted Miami to draft a QB last year. I saw it as a primary need. I did my analysis of the QBs and IMO Losman wasn't worth a 1st round pick. I actually think both AJ and Losman are most likely to fail. My reason for prefering AJ is that I believe (don't actually know this) he is cheaper. The franchise also avoids the burden of a failed #1 pick QB. If my team is going to invest in a bust, I'd prefer the they invest the least amount possible.

 

[Boik14]

minny had a very good Oline and a very good WR(i think his name is moss)
dolphins had worst oline ever in dolphins history, and a run first offense...

so breaking out that stat gun to show how awesome ferotte was in 3 games is worthless, and then saying i cant look at his career stats? lol

and to answer more of yoru rebuttals

2)we had less then amonth to prepare for the departure of one of the, if not the best runner in dolphins history. now if ricky retired during the offseason and not the day before training camp then yes you have a argument but the gameplans all year under whinestache were the same as if ricky was in the back field, so yes that is a reason why were were bad, and yes having a horrible run defense was another reason we were bad last year, i was stating why the dolphins were bad last year, not why AJ was.

3)everyone of your bashes against him were caused by a poor Oline

poor pocket awareness (what pocket?, olines fault)
and the rest is due to him being green, coaches and oline..

its a catch 22 to be a QB, when your winning u get all the credit, and when your losing u get all the blame...

which is why i played defense in HS and college

so according to you AJ shouldve thrown every ball away and then played the "its not a bad thing to punt"-whinestache, plays, he was trying to make plays, and when you have pressure in yoru face every play its really hard to have yoru team score, especially since it was 3rd down every time he got a chance to pass...

again placing blame on AJ for the failures of our offense is wrong,

reasons offense sucked

1)bad coaching
2)bad oline
3)bad RBs

with those things fixed next year, (fingers crossed about the Oline), AJ will only improve..

now the ferotte debate

1)lets play devils advocate and say ferotte is better, he will also be 34 once the season starts, why start a 34 year old career back up instead of a unproven younger guy?

2) we are not going to the playoffs next year, we are rebuilding, we will go 7-9 or 8-8, we have the hardesr schedule in the NFL, so why start a 34 year old who wouldve retired if we didnt pick him up?

if ferotte was more like warner, and we had a opportunity to go into the playoffs then yes, it would be a good reason to have him start..

however, we are 1-2 years from playoffs, do u want a 36 year old QB leading your team? or a 30 year old who progressed into a decent QB.

last year was a bust for everyone, it sucked, but AJ is the last one to blame on that offense, not first, and saying Gus(shiver) can play better shows no football knowledge, Gus was brought in in case AJ gets injured, he is familiar with the offensive scheme and will be able to come in in relief if needed, but i bet my new wife AJ starts this season, and does better then fiedler ever could

- So now blame Frerottes stats on what he had and used well as opposed to what AJ had and failed to use? Childish argument.
- Miami's OL was no worse than Cleveland or NYG who didnt even have the 1 respectable OL we had (St Clair).
- I never ever said you couldnt look at frerotte's career stats; i said they blow away aj's which they do. And they arent spectacular but hes way better.
- The thread is about why AJ was bad. No one needs you to tell them why the phins were bad so naturally I assumed thats what you referring to. Otherwise it doesnt really have a place in the thread does it?
- Losing RW was important; no doubting that. But we still had time to adjust though. On a good team 1 player being lost does not mean the end of the world. We failed to make use of the pieces still in place.
- How in the blue hell does poor decision making fall on the O line? Or his inability to read coverages? Or his stupidity? Lets get something straight; the person who throws the ball is thereby responsible for what happens to it. The OL does not throw the ball, they merely snap and block. Aj f'ed up therefore he deserves the bashing.
- As far AJ being green; hes been in the league, what, 3-4 years? He went to college and performed mediocore at best there while losing his job to Joey Harrington after waiting behind Akili Smith (LOL @ waiting behind Smith). There comes a point when you have to accept that a player sucks. For Aj and myself that time is now. Ive accepted that; if he proves me wrong ill be even happier.
- Yes I would rather play the field position game; how can I not when the alternative is a pick 6 or some kind of TO? You only have to play that kind of game when you have a terrible qb or youre facing a great D. We have the former more often than we faced the latter. The only good quality Aj brings to the table is a hot wife that if he passes around could upgrade the teams performance through motivation.

Frerotte:
- Who cares if hes 34. Rich gannon didnt bloom until way into his 30's. Ditto Doug Williams and you can even argue Phil Simms (who I grew up watching and enjoying) didnt bloom until later. At this point he doesnt need to be a late bloomer to beat out AJ; just be efficient and playing mistake free ball.
- Frerotte would not have retired; now youre just pulling stuff from your behind. There was other interest in him besides us.
- If Frerotte was more like Warner???? WTF is that supposed to mean? Warner was crap when Vermeil pulled his butt out of the Arena league. You can never identify the late bloomers which is kind of the point: I have a lot more confidence in Gus getting us to 8-8 or so than AJ doing enough to get us to 5-11. And he doesnt necessarily need to be a late bloomer; he just needs to play smart ball. Thats my feeling; I dont care if you agree or not.
- No one is saying Frerotte is the long term answer but I do think hes a significantly better short term answer than AJ. We may not be a year or 2 from the playoffs; if we can play good mistake free football (something saban emphasizes) then theres no reason we cant get there this year. And even if Gus isnt the long term answer than we just draft a qb next year which most of us tend to believe we'll need to do anyway.
- Actually what shows no football knowledge is your little wall of excuses you built for AJ. It shows that you pick and choose the stats that suit you and help you manipulate the argment. Instead of seeing that Gus clearly played surperior football last year you choose to ignore the fact that Minny had its own problems like no RT (rosenthal hurt) no C (Birk was hurt), nothing great at Guard (david dixon..shiver).
-Finally you show you nothing at all about the events of this offseason; Saban stated bascially the day after that Gus was to compete for the starting job and at no time announced a starter or a front runner for the starting qb position.


Feel free to admit you've been owned.

 

[CanadaPhinsFan]

Prove BEYOND ANY DOUBT AJ was single handedly responsible for every int for 6 he threw, can you? Also if you know for fact AJ will not improve and be good, I would love to be enlightened. I dont guarentee AJ will be good, I am not sure one way or another. I like the potential AJ has, but potential and fullfillment of that potential are 2 diff things. I think he may, but recognize the possibility he doesnt. You seem to think your position is teh only valid position, which is completely false.

Prove beyond a doubt he wasn't the only person responsible fot his INT's. It's an argument that works both ways.

AJ stunk it up on a regular basis last year. I sure hope he playes better, but I have my doubts based on what we've seen from him so far. Who knows, maybe Frerotte can help him grasp Linehan's offense and we'll see a totally different player under center.

 

[djfresh47]

what teams could ferrotte start for?

im not saying AJ is the next marino, but between him and gus, feeley has more going for him, i still think we draft a QB next year, nick could only fix so much this offseason

I do think that a QB will end up beign the top priority next offseason, but Gus knows Linehan's offense so I would give him an edge. If either Qb's were clear cut starting caliber Qb's there would be no competition.

 

[painnotpleasure]

First of all, I am not an AJ Hater nor AJ Hugger. I am a Miami Dolphins lover, and what I'm most concerned about is us winning games. I just want there to be an open FAIR competition between Feeley, Frerotte, and HELL even Sage! There's almost never a guarenteed lock at a position ESPECIALLY our QB situation. I'm hoping there will be a fair competition between all of our QB's and that the best man earns the starting job whomever that may be. I'm not an AJ Hater who feels based on last season's performance in no shape or form should ever get a chance to even step foot on the field for us this season... and I am not an AJ Hugger who feels he is our starting QB right now and he should be GIVEN the starting job. Whoever is going to be out starting QB is going to have earn it. I understand that Linehan is pulling for Frerotte and Spielman is pulling for AJ... and I'm hoping Saban is going to be the neutralizer and go with the man available for the job. If AJ wins the job and has an awesome season, I'll be THRILLED! If Gus wins the starting job and has an awesome season, I'll be THRILLED! If SAGE wins the starting job... beats out both AJ and Gus and has an unbelievable season... I'll be THRILLED!! It doesn't matter who wins the starting job to me, I just want the best man available for the starting job. I trust Saban's judgement and regardless of what the outcome is... I will support it and not question it or whine and complain about it. The best man SHOULD and I'm hoping will win the starting job... no matter who that may be. I honestly don't know why anyone else would think or would want anything else.

 

[PhinBeck]

This is the exact reason why people feel Feeley wasn't worth a 2nd, 4 games in Philly and people thought he was a starter. We shall see this season one way or the other, hopefully it doesn't take Saban 4 years to decide if he does not improve.

I saw that diff. I agree that if you are trading a second for AJ knowing that he would be expected to carry the offense from day 1 it is stupid. I think they expected AJ to be the starter, but expected that Ricky was going to be teh focus and that AJ could be brought along like Brady was, like Bulger was, surrounded by weapons and an improved line. That didnt happen. AJ was realtively young with potential, with some expoerience and a couple years sitting and learning, ready to start and grow, but not ready to carry, to create. There were many mistakes last year as far as the direction and plans. Aj was only a mistake in that in conjunction with everything else, AJ was not prpared to handle that situation at that point with his experience.

 

[PhinPhreak]

I don't really like the term haters. I don't hate AJ. Just because someone does not think he proved anything last year, he is labeled a hater. And just because you think he did, your a hugger! I hope he does well! But I do have my doubts! He has a lot to prove. I saw more from AJ that I did not like last year, then what I liked.

If he proves himself to Linehan and Saban and starts the season, then I will back him just like any other Fin.

If Gus beats him out, then this will most likely be his last year in a Fins uniform.

Exactly!!

I don't hate AJ, but it will take alot to convince me he can be a good QB after his play last season. I am not expecting much from him but hopefully at the end of next season I am praising him.

Just because people don't think every player that puts on a Fins uniform is the greatest that doesn't make them haters, it makes them realists. I know that there are some people that are hoping AJ fails at the expense of the team, yes these people are haters, but I would bet a majority of us want the team to win first and worry about who we do an do not like 2nd.

 

[Boik14]

You mean teh 4 games jhe played in relief? Way to discount his other years he suked as a starter. Admittedly not on great teams, but better offensive teams than what AJ played with last year. Defend that realistically and I will be more apt to buy what you say. Sorry but 4 good games in a relief situation is diff than being teh starter that defenses gameplan for.

Except that he was also thrown into some bad relief situations as well like in cincy. None the less every year as a a pro hes had at least as many TDs as INt's except for the 1 year in cincy under the old regime there. Every time hes been in a relief situation on a decent team hes preformed adequately (Denver, minny, washington) and in bad spots hes performed a little worse(Detroit, cincy). What that tells me is that he plays better with better talent around him.

Now with Brown, CC, Book, McMike, an improved OL explain to me why he wouldnt succeed when he has shown in the past this is exactly the kind of support he needs?

 

[rafael]

I have said several times that I don't AJ is the future QB for this team. I base this on the fact that he has shown a propensity to make bad decisions BOTH in Miami and in Philly (where he had a good supporting cast). I have no doubt he will better under Saban, but I believe his potential is Fiedler-esque. To me this means "not good enough". I don't want another "not good enough" QB.

It appears to me that the people who believe AJ will succeed make two arguments which I find faulty. First they make excuses about how bad the rest of the team was. This doesn't prove AJ is good, only that he might not be the worst starter in the league (as he was last year). Also this discounts the fact that he was less than spectacular (Fiedler-esque) in Philly. The second argument is that he has a strong arm. This is one of the least important factors in predicting NFL success. You can find bartenders and construction workers all over the country with strong arms. This does not make them NFL QBs.

 

[PhinBeck]

Prove beyond a doubt he wasn't the only person responsible fot his INT's. It's an argument that works both ways.

AJ stunk it up on a regular basis last year. I sure hope he playes better, but I have my doubts based on what we've seen from him so far. Who knows, maybe Frerotte can help him grasp Linehan's offense and we'll see a totally different player under center.

What? You trying to make my point for me? I never said I knew for fact which ones were or were not his fault. My point and it is a point many cannot seem to comprehend is that a qb alone is not responsible for all his stats. Mistakes by others can cause horrible stats for a qb. Like the int for 6 2 years ago by Jay against teh jets that Hit McKight in the chest, many blamed that on Jay. Jay got the int, but it was caused by Mcknight. He let it hit his chest and bounce in the air. We cant know for fact who is telling the truth when CC comes out and says he slipped on the route during Buffalo game where the lb spikes returned it. Many said he was covering for AJ. Maybe he was, wont discount that posiibility, but prove that statement, can you? I cant, you can assume all you want, but assumptions dont translate to fact as many here would like. I am nmot dissuading opinions, I dont care about your opinion, I disagree with statements that your belief that he suks is the ONLY position with validity. If that was true you could prove it with Facts. I aint seen one yet. I am not saying that my belief AJ has the potential to be very good is fact, hardly. I think he deserves the chance with a real system and a real supporting cast.


And Boik, that response above about Gus using whhat he had and AJ failing to, WHAT DID AJ HAVE? CC? Randy, Booker? Yep, course you dont think the defenses might have known that do you? Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt Bennett healthy and running wild for Minn when Frerrotte was playing? Didnt Frerrotte play behind a line that gave him more than 1 second to throw? You comparing Minn o-line and ground game for Frerrotte to what AJ had at o-line and ground game is laughable.

 

[PhinBeck]

Except that he was also thrown into some bad relief situations as well like in cincy. None the less every year as a a pro hes had at least as many TDs as INt's except for the 1 year in cincy under the old regime there. Every time hes been in a relief situation on a decent team hes preformed adequately (Denver, minny, washington) and in bad spots hes performed a little worse(Detroit, cincy). What that tells me is that he plays better with better talent around him.

Now with Brown, CC, Book, McMike, an improved OL explain to me why he wouldnt succeed when he has shown in the past this is exactly the kind of support he needs?

Never said he wouldnt, but you tell me why the same doesnt apply for AJ? You discount the poor results Gus had when he had to carry the Bengals as playing behind the eight ball so to speak but completely ignore that AJ faced teh same, only his o-line was worse than Frerrottes in Cinci and he didnt have Corey Dillon running behind him either. Never mind the FACT that Frerrotte was allowed to walk away from how many teams?

 

[PhinBeck]

I have said several times that I don't AJ is the future QB for this team. I base this on the fact that he has shown a propensity to make bad decisions BOTH in Miami and in Philly (where he had a good supporting cast). I have no doubt he will better under Saban, but I believe his potential is Fiedler-esque. To me this means "not good enough". I don't want another "not good enough" QB.

It appears to me that the people who believe AJ will succeed make two arguments which I find faulty. First they make excuses about how bad the rest of the team was. This doesn't prove AJ is good, only that he might not be the worst starter in the league (as he was last year). Also this discounts the fact that he was less than spectacular (Fiedler-esque) in Philly. The second argument is that he has a strong arm. This is one of the least important factors in predicting NFL success. You can find bartenders and construction workers all over the country with strong arms. This does not make them NFL QBs.

That is why noone who supports Feeley is amking guarentees for him. But many can see extenuating circumstances. Philli in 02 he was clearly 3rd string with 0 experience and no reps until he was starting. Also remember weekly practices are much diff than 2 a days in training camp 5 days a week where you get a ton of reps as teh starter. they practice 3 days and a walk thru during teh season. Forget stats, the fact that he was able to play well enough in that situation to maintain home field advantage for Philli and not lose a single game for them says something to me.

Arm strength alone is not a valid argument I agree. But having enough arm strength combinbed with teh intelligence and maturity allows a qb to be successful. The lack of arm strength was a major contributor to Jays downfall.