Where is Dion Jordan's Best Fit? Part 1: SAM Linebacker in a 4-3 Under

[So Be]

I wonder if there are loopholes to get around that? Like in a player for player trade they restructure their player and pay him the cap hit near the equivalence to what we'd absorb on our end.

No but, I have seen it talked about for a trading team to pay more than they have to. I have no reference of it happening, although I guess if you really want Jordan, and getting him for $6M over 4 years, it would be possible. The cost for a trading team makes him very desirable but, it's the opposite for Miami.

 

[HoneyB]

Heading into the draft, I had Jordan rated slightly higher than Mingo as a 3-4 OLB, but if Miami was looking for a DE, they did everything wrong. First, they should have stayed at 12 and drafted Carradine. His rookie year was a wash due to injuries, but he was easily the best 4-3 DE prospect in the draft. SF has asked him to bulk up and play 3-4 DE, and by all accounts, he's progressing well, but he would have been an ideal 4-3 DE. Knowing that Miami can't look that far into the future, the next best DE option would have been Ansah. I was too low on Ansah - too hung up on his rawness. Slimm had it right when he pointed to Ziggy's physical brand and high-end tools. And after Ansah, Mingo translates better to DE than Jordan. Of these guys, Jordan (heading into the draft) was easily the worst DE prospect.

In hindsight, I gave Jordan too much credit for his ability to play in space, and I didn't penalize him enough for being soft, but I still had him as a LB, and I would have only drafted him in the 1st to play LB. As a DE, he's more of a 3rd or 4th RD prospect. The 2014 draft saw Kareem Martin fall to the 3rd RD, and he's a better athlete than Jordan, with better college production, and he's actually built like a 4-3 DE - who the Cardinals are going to bulk up into a 3-4 DE - similar to what SF is doing with Carradine. Even with our depth at DE, I think it was a mistake to pass on Martin for Billy Turner. Martin - imo - should have been a 1st RD pick - 2nd at the latest.

Then why on earth did we draft a linebacker? And from all accounts, it was unanimous in the room and every coach and scout wanted Jordan. In fact, Ireland said he was targeting a different player but when a opportunity came for Jordan, he took it. We cashed in 2 high draft picks, for gods sakes. We're getting nothing in return.

The other day on finsiders radio, they said Jordan needed "3-4 years" in development from when he was drafted. You've got to be kidding. We were in a win-now mentality and he drafts someone who won't make an impact until long after he's fired? Talk about short-sightedness. And based on that original projection, that means he won't make an impact this year, either.

 

[dlockz]

I meant they're hurting on WR over there as well, and we're pretty well set. Double trade maybe.

Jeremy maclin, Jordan Matthews and riley cooper is that really hurting

 

[PhinFan1968]

Jeremy maclin, Jordan Matthews and riley cooper is that really hurting

Guess their announcers don't know their own team then.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Heading into the draft, I had Jordan rated slightly higher than Mingo as a 3-4 OLB, but if Miami was looking for a DE, they did everything wrong. First, they should have stayed at 12 and drafted Carradine. His rookie year was a wash due to injuries, but he was easily the best 4-3 DE prospect in the draft. SF has asked him to bulk up and play 3-4 DE, and by all accounts, he's progressing well, but he would have been an ideal 4-3 DE. Knowing that Miami can't look that far into the future, the next best DE option would have been Ansah. I was too low on Ansah - too hung up on his rawness. Slimm had it right when he pointed to Ziggy's physical brand and high-end tools. And after Ansah, Mingo translates better to DE than Jordan. Of these guys, Jordan (heading into the draft) was easily the worst DE prospect.

In hindsight, I gave Jordan too much credit for his ability to play in space, and I didn't penalize him enough for being soft, but I still had him as a LB, and I would have only drafted him in the 1st to play LB. As a DE, he's more of a 3rd or 4th RD prospect. The 2014 draft saw Kareem Martin fall to the 3rd RD, and he's a better athlete than Jordan, with better college production, and he's actually built like a 4-3 DE - who the Cardinals are going to bulk up into a 3-4 DE - similar to what SF is doing with Carradine. Even with our depth at DE, I think it was a mistake to pass on Martin for Billy Turner. Martin - imo - should have been a 1st RD pick - 2nd at the latest.

Ansah was who I wanted...Can't say I feel I was wrong about that...

 

[NCFINFAN13]

In Oregon, Jordan reminded me a lot of Hugh Green. Most here probably don't remember him or/ remember him before his injury (he was never the same after that), but Shula said he played with "reckless abandon". Anyway, that's who came to mind when I watched him. I believe he should be an OLB set free to wreak havoc on opposing QB's and TE's. Alas, they may have ruined him with his weight gain.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Ansah was who I wanted...Can't say I feel I was wrong about that...

Definitely don't look wrong. He played well during his rookie season.

 

[dlockz]

In Oregon, Jordan reminded me a lot of Hugh Green. Most here probably don't remember him or/ remember him before his injury (he was never the same after that), but Shula said he played with "reckless abandon". Anyway, that's who came to mind when I watched him. I believe he should be an OLB set free to wreak havoc on opposing QB's and TE's. Alas, they may have ruined him with his weight gain.

He must have reminded you of Hugh Green after he got injured. Hugh Green was a dominating college player one of the best in the country and Dion Jordan was definitely not.High Green averaged 13 sacks a year in college and was one of the most productive players ever in colleege

 

[Dolphin North]

Jordan is now listed at around 275, and there will be no position change this year. My question is how stopping the PED's will affect his play?

It's not like he was on HGH.
He will probably lose some weight through the rigors of the year much like JT used to, but I wouldn't expect him to shrivel up and get weak all of a sudden.

 

[dlockz]

It's not like he was on HGH.
He will probably lose some weight through the rigors of the year much like JT used to, but I wouldn't expect him to shrivel up and get weak all of a sudden.

we have no clue what he was on although suddenly being that much heavier is pretty easy to guess it wasn't cough syrup

 

[So Be]

It's not like he was on HGH.
He will probably lose some weight through the rigors of the year much like JT used to, but I wouldn't expect him to shrivel up and get weak all of a sudden.

I don't know but, if your performance was enhanced, and you stop enhancing, it should have some effect.

 

[Dolphin North]

we have no clue what he was on although suddenly being that much heavier is pretty easy to guess it wasn't cough syrup

Any possibility it was stimulants like they said? Any possibility he worked his professional football player ass off to get stronger now that he is no longer in college and this is his job?
Not that this is about my less than stellar body, but I put on 17 lbs. in a few months just doing upper body weights because I was bored one year in university, so I don't think it's a huge deal. I'm not the body type that puts on much weight either and I'm not as tall as Jordan. I only did about 1 hour a day of lifting in a very archaic gym with no training coaches, no diet plan, no supplements or protein shakes and the like. Plus this was all in 1988-89 when we knew a lot less about health and strength training. Didn't change my diet other than drinking more milk (skim). So I'm pretty sure a professional athlete who is 6'6" can put on 25 or 30 if he is working legs and upper body, eating certain foods and doing whatever else his professional trainer is telling him to do.

 

[dlockz]

Any possibility it was stimulants like they said? Any possibility he worked his professional football player ass off to get stronger now that he is no longer in college and this is his job?
Not that this is about my less than stellar body, but I put on 17 lbs. in a few months just doing upper body weights because I was bored one year in university, so I don't think it's a huge deal. I'm not the body type that puts on much weight either and I'm not as tall as Jordan. I only did about 1 hour a day of lifting in a very archaic gym with no training coaches, no diet plan, no supplements or protein shakes and the like. Plus this was all in 1988-89 when we knew a lot less about health and strength training. Didn't change my diet other than drinking more milk (skim). So I'm pretty sure a professional athlete who is 6'6" can put on 25 or 30 if he is working legs and upper body, eating certain foods and doing whatever else his professional trainer is telling him to do.

Its possibly any banned item so he can cheat the system take your pick> maybe if he took his job more seriously he would not have been a banned substance into his body.

 

[Dolphin North]

Its possibly any banned item so he can cheat the system take your pick> maybe if he took his job more seriously he would not have been a banned substance into his body.

Then my pick is a stimulant, until I hear more. I'm not defending taking banned substances, I'm just saying he didn't necessarily gain all or even most of the weight only because of a substance. It may have had something to do with work and I wouldn't expect him to lose all of the weight from going off of it if he continues to work. But he should lose some through the season as most lean players do.
Personally I'd rather see him at SOLB at a lower weight anyway, but that's just me.

 

[jim1]

In Oregon, Jordan reminded me a lot of Hugh Green. Most here probably don't remember him or/ remember him before his injury (he was never the same after that), but Shula said he played with "reckless abandon". Anyway, that's who came to mind when I watched him. I believe he should be an OLB set free to wreak havoc on opposing QB's and TE's. Alas, they may have ruined him with his weight gain.

Hugh was a force of nature, a physical and instinctive player who had a nose for the game and knew how to get after the Quarterback. He could move, great athlete and very active player who won 1 on 1 physical matchups, much more than Jordan. My guess is that he's still considered one of the greatest college football players ever, unfortunately for us blowing out his knee took the steam out of his pro career.

To me Jordan is more of a great athlete rather than the physical, instinctive and athletic player that Green was. The thing is, you've got in Jordan a strong yet lanky and high cut player whose strengths are coverage and mobility and using that speed to take straight shots at the QB like a guided missile- what he's not good at is getting tied up and dancing with much bigger OT's.

So the question is, why in the world would a 4/3 defensive team draft him and put him at DE where he's forced to play to his weaknesses when he clearly has the athletic ability to play OLB? Find ways to change up the defense and get him more pass rushes in per game- if the team didn't want to get creative with him in a 4/3 defense and change things up then they never should have traded up for him. I've been saying it since before the draft, the dude is an OLB.