Which expert do you listen too? Brandt or Kiper? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Which expert do you listen too? Brandt or Kiper?

$$BWCJR78$$ said:
carolina was 12-4 in 08, 8-8 in 09, then 2-14 in 10, so they had talent on the team but had a bad yr. they draft cam and they go 6-10 in his first yr. vince young looked great his first time playing and now look where his is. teams will figure out how to play him and he will make more mistakes. he threw 21 td and 17 int not exactly great. i can see why they were hating on cam.
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I also would like to see Cam Newton have another or three good seasons before i say he is great.

I have a couple of problems with him and they are related.

First, NFL wise, yes, he threw for a lot of yards and scored TDs but they did not win that many games. Still for me the only stats that really counts is the final score of a game.

The 2nd part is more personal. Cam Newton set behind Tim Tebow here in Gainesvilles for a couple of years. One version of him leaving and playing at a Jr College before going to Auburn was that Tebow was going to stay his senior season so Cam Newton would only be able to play for one season since he could not beat out Tebow.

The other more local version was that he was found with a stolen laptop that he had loaded with illegal software (when the police came to his room he dropped the laptop out the window). What has also came out (a lot was covered up during the Urban Meyer period) was that he had been caught cheating and was in danger of being thrown out of the school.

Then there is the stuff about his Dad etc. But I do believe that he has always had a good "team" behind him. It seems like he has always been considered a commodity that was invested in.

Maybe the best thing that could of happened to him was him getting busted and having to leave the U of Fl. I think it was a wake up call to him and maybe more important, to his Dad and his "handlers".
 
Am I one of the few that actually likes Kiper? He won't hit on all, but then again Gruden said P. White was a 'great' pick for the Dolphins!!
 
I like Brandt and NFLN's Draft Guru's and Former GM's, I also like Wes Bunting of NFP.com ...
 
Look, Kiper, McShay, Gruden, anyone, all they can do is look at the player and decide if they're a good fit for a team. It's still up to the player to work hard and the team to put them in position to succeed. I think it's fair to say that Sparano and crew were terrible at further development of their talent. Who knows what Henne, White, Merling, or Ginn could have been with the fins if the coaching staff was better at development. In truth White should have fit perfectly with the wildcat, and been Tebow before Tebow. Who was helping him get any better? A good example a development gone right is Urlacher. Dude was a strong safety in college, and considered a guy between positions. The Bears helped him get ready for MLB and he worked hard to be great.

The draft analysis isn't the determining factor to success, but it's an important scouting tool.
 
I can honestly say that I have much less certainty about this stuff today than I had last week. Some really good posts in these threads have made me reconsider some stuff, makes me realize just how hard the GM job really is. Just in the last hour I've gotten more positive about Tannehill.

As far as picking a favorite NFL analyst talking head guy, I don't think I could put my finger on it. Maybe Casserly.
 
do we really draft him at number 8? 3 qb's in the first 8 picks, don't know if he's that good. I'd rather see us trade out into the teens, maybe nab Floyd, then get Weeden and a pass rusher in the second, and then go from there. Rather see us trade up for Blackmon than Tanny. Maybe trade up for Barkley. But please don't take Tanny at 8!
 
gil brandt is probably the best talent evaluator ever.

many guys have been great about drafting for THEIR team, their system, but gil could draft for any team, any system.

i like mayock, but, he can really be tunnell vision and condesending to others on the draft shows and he has had his share of misses over the years.

KIPER: he's the ORIGINAL!! the o/g of the draft world. he has as many great hits and as many great misses as anyone else, but people seem to judge him more by his hair than actaul evaluation. i would watch him much more if he didnt work for that pathetic ESPN and their dancing bear, bills fan supreme, CHRIS BERMAN!! i just cant stand that network anymore. their becoming the MSNBC of sports news.

BRANDT

MAYOCK

KIPER
 
ESPN tells Liz Mullen of the Sports Business Journal that they are looking into allegations that agent Gary Wichard and Mel Kiper’s relationship is a little too cozy.
“We just learned of the story today and are looking into it,” ESPN’s statement read.
In the excellent article by George Dohrmonn, former sports agent Josh Luchs recalls a story where Wichard arranged for Kiper to call during a meeting in 2000 with Stanford defensive lineman Willie Howard.
“Gary and I were talking to Willie in Gary’s office when Gary’s phone rang, and he put it on speakerphone,” Luchs recalls. “‘Viper,
how are you?’ Gary said. That’s what he called Mel, Viper or Vipe. ‘Viper, I’m sitting here with the best defensive lineman in college
football. Do you know who that is?’
‘You must be with Willie Howard,’ Mel said.”
This isn’t the first time there have been questions raised about Kiper’s relationships with Wichard. PFT wrote an article back in April about Kiper’s ranking of Jimmy Clausen as his top prospect at quarterback. Clausen was a Wichard client.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...to-mel-kipers-relationship-with-gary-wichard/
 
Spesh said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...to-mel-kipers-relationship-with-gary-wichard/
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I remember reading that article quite some time ago, I believe in the LA Times, and immediately realizing that with Kiper it's all about the Benjamin$. It's not unlike Sirius's Howard Stern crowbarring in phony and forced conversation and endorsements as part of the show's ebb and flow when in reality he gets paid for sneaky advertising. It's all dishonest. I've subsequently read that unlike McShay (which is by no means an endorsement), Kiper gets his information by networking with team officials, and scouts rather than through actual observation.

I've actively disliked him since he went ballistic about us passing on Brady Quinn as if it was a personal affront to his credibility. Turns out in that case that Cam knew better than Mel.
 
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Vaark said:

I've actively disliked him since he went ballistic about us passing on Brady Quinn as if it was a personal affront to his credibility. Turns out in that case that Cam knew better than Mel.
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If you look at things logically, we're not sure on this. Quinn went to a terrible team with no supporting cast, received no additional developmental support, multiple coaches and schemes, and once traded lost out on his chance to play due to the Tebow fiasco. So no one is really sure what Quinn can do in the right situation. I'm no Quinn fan but this is a case where the player is a bust because his team and coaches have failed.
 
zach attach said:
Both men have clout as draft experts. Brandt has actually picked players for a pro team, Kiper has not. They have two takes on Tannehill. Kiper says:

"I love Tannehill's upside, and I think he has a great shot to be a good starter, but the market on him has gotten a little out of hand in some respects. Remember, if Matt Barkley, Landry Jones and perhaps Tyler Wilson were in this draft, we're talking about a likelier bet for late-first or second round for Tannehill. Again, he can be a good one, but a lot of it is projecting, because while his physical abilities are so impressive there is much work to be done."

This came from a Browns board. Gil Brandt says:

Appearing today on the Fox and Bull on 92.3 Gil Brandt spoke glowingly about Ryan Tannehill and was lukewarm about giving up a lot of high picks for RG3. He thinks RG3 is going to be a good football player but that giving up potentially 3 first round picks for him would be tough to take. He went on to say that Mike Holmgren is one of the best judges of qb talent. Brandt then said you can keep all the picks and draft Tannehill with the 4th pick of the draft and be pretty well satisfied. Brandt said Tannehill can flat out play and has tremendous potential. He pointed out that Tannehill was the only qb in history to beat Nebraska Oklahoma and Texas in the same year and he only played 6 games at qb that year (his junior season). He also said Tannehill's receivers had 64 drops this year which impacted his stats. In comparing RG3 and Tannehill he said RG3 was blitzed 70 times on 3rd down and was sacked 6 times. Tannehill was blitzed 140 times on 3rd down and was only sacked 2 times.

Which prognosticator would you follow at pick 8?
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if barkley and jones were in this draft Tannehill would be a late second to third round pick. Miami would end up with RG3 Barkley would be 2
 
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