Why I want a new QB

[Geforce]

the only thing i get from from this semi rant is stats dont matter, only the FEW mistakes HE made against playoff [and 1 dynasty] teams matter.

funny how things like moore leading THE WHOLE NFL in plays over 20 yds are missing.

Matt Moore did not lead the The WHOLE NFL in plays over 20 yards. According to NFL.com, Moore only had 38 pass plays of 20+ yards in the 12+ games he played. Chad Henne had 16 pass plays of 20+ yards in the 3+ games he played.

Before the last game of the season, the Dolphins were second in the league with 38 pass plays of 25+ yards.

you left out the fact matt moore won more games than he lost. so if i have you correct, matts wins were because of the team and their losses were on matt. correct?

I think your math is off, Moore started 12 games last season and won six of them.

 

[dolphone]

This article from the New England game is from one game, but is an illustration of exactly how he played all year.

"That's the primary lesson of Miami's 27-24 loss to New England on a crisp Saturday in Gillette Stadium during which Moore looked so in command in the first half and then so out of sorts in the second".

"Moore passed for 179 yards and two touchdowns without an interception in the first half, but only 115 (mostly cosmetic) yards and one (absolutely cosmetic) touchdown with an interception thereafter".

"Then came the final two quarters stuffed full of the kind of quarterback errors (the lost fumble, the interception, a couple of sacks when he should have dumped the ball) that frequently change the course of a game".

This one cracked me up!

"It was underthrown," Moore said of the picked-off pass. "I'd like to think it got caught in the wind, but I just have to make a better throw."

Cosmetic is a very good word that describes Moore, the numbers might make you look twice but take off the makeup and the truth is easy to see if you actually want to see it; some don't. I would love to keep him as a back up, but if he is our starter next season, it will be another lonnnnnnng one.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...cond-half-errors-help-illustrate-2054100.html

Advanced stats seem to support your story.

On DYAR (which measures productivity) Moore ranked 23rd, with 250 yards above replacement (considering the quality of the defenses faced). Chad Henne, playing only 3 games (and change), ranks 29th with 126. Projected over a full season, that would've ranked Henne 13th with 672, while Moore would've ranked 21st, with 307. If we eliminate the quality-of-defense factor, things are even worse; Moore has 244 YAR (note this is less than his DYAR, which means he gets a boost fromt the quality of defenses he faced, albeit slightly); Henne has 158 (this is more than his DYAR, meaning he gets penalized for the opponents faced). Looking at these non-adjusted numbers, they rank 25 and 26 respectively. Note that this stat productivity-dependant, which means it's based on *quantity*.

It gets worse for Moore. On DVOA (which measures efficiency) Moore has -1.0% DVOA (which means he played, on average, 1% below an average guy off the bench); this ranks him 26th league-wide. Henne has 4.8% DVOA; this ranks him 19th. These numbers do not need projection, since are rate stats (averages, if you will). They are, however, adjusted for opponent. If we eliminate the opponent adjustment (disregard the quality of the defenses) Moore goes down a bit to -1.3% (good for around 30th), while Henne goes up to 8.9% (good for 14th).

I'm just using Henne for comparison within the same team, which gives us the advantage of having the exact same teammates and thus eliminates an excuse.

For comparison league-wide, Brees, Rodgers and Brady were the clear leaders in DYAR; the latter two are in the 2200s, but Brees was particularly stellar with over 2500. No one else got above 1600. Among starters, the "expected" performance would be around 600; that's what Joe Flaco (14th), Matt Hasselbeck (15th) or Cam Newton (16th) gets you (passing only). DVOA-wise it's the same story, except Rodgers and Brees switch spots. They're all above 40% DVOA, Rodgers above 50%; this probably means he's a QB and a half. Your average, off-the-bench QB (0% DVOA)? Ryan Fitzpatrick. You want about 10% DVOA from your standard NFL starting QB, which is exactly what Alex Smith brings (14th leaguewide).

ETA: Forgot the source: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

[Vaark]

2 Questions:

1)How much more likely we'd have been competing for Luck if Henne stayed healthy?

2) How much more likely we'd have been competing with the jest in game 16 for the wild card if there was a fair training camp QB competition?

Putting this into perspective, for anyone without an axe to grind, I think we know the answer to both

 

[insomnia411]

2 Questions:

1)How much more likely we'd have been competing for Luck if Henne stayed healthy?

2) How much more likely we'd have been competing with the jest in game 16 for the wild card if there was a fair training camp QB competition?

Putting this into perspective, for anyone without an axe to grind, I think we know the answer to both

1) If Henne stays healthy we are much closer to 10-6 than we are 6-10 IMO. More importantly, if our supposedly vaunted defense, our supposedly great #1 receiver and supposedly dynamic runningback actually play half decent in the first 7 games of the year, we probably start off 4-3 or 5-2.

2) The coaching staff had wayyy too much of a hot seat coming into this season to NOT play the best QB. If Matt Moore showed that he was demonstratively better than Henne in TC, he would have started. The lockout may have hurt Moore, but I shed no tears for the guy.

Fact really is, this team would be much much better with an elite QB OBVIOUSLY like any other team would be. However, anybody who thinks that this team is just a better QB away from a super bowl is dreaming. I'm not saying that's how you feel, but this team needs a deep threat, a seam tight end, a guard, a tackle, a safety, a pass rusher and a real 4-3 MLB now before we start talking about making real playoff moves.

 

[Strangeworld]

1) If Henne stays healthy we are much closer to 10-6 than we are 6-10 IMO. More importantly, if our supposedly vaunted defense, our supposedly great #1 receiver and supposedly dynamic runningback actually play half decent in the first 7 games of the year, we probably start off 4-3 or 5-2.

2) The coaching staff had wayyy too much of a hot seat coming into this season to NOT play the best QB. If Matt Moore showed that he was demonstratively better than Henne in TC, he would have started. The lockout may have hurt Moore, but I shed no tears for the guy.

Fact really is, this team would be much much better with an elite QB OBVIOUSLY like any other team would be. However, anybody who thinks that this team is just a better QB away from a super bowl is dreaming. I'm not saying that's how you feel, but this team needs a deep threat, a seam tight end, a guard, a tackle, a safety, a pass rusher and a real 4-3 MLB now before we start talking about making real playoff moves.

Henne's apologists cannot seem to let it go.... Get over it.

Henne was an albatross that cannot be measured in merely stats; his departure raised the entire confidence level of the team.

 

[dolphone]

2 Questions:

1)How much more likely we'd have been competing for Luck if Henne stayed healthy?

2) How much more likely we'd have been competing with the jest in game 16 for the wild card if there was a fair training camp QB competition?

Putting this into perspective, for anyone without an axe to grind, I think we know the answer to both

I think, by definition, we can't know the answer to either of those questions. Hypotheticals fromt he past simply can't be proven or disproven.

But I do *believe* we would've been better off with Henne. I also believe, even in that case, we need a new QB.

 

[67Stang]

2 Questions:

1)How much more likely we'd have been competing for Luck if Henne stayed healthy?

2) How much more likely we'd have been competing with the jest in game 16 for the wild card if there was a fair training camp QB competition?

Putting this into perspective, for anyone without an axe to grind, I think we know the answer to both

WTF are you talking about Vaark? This thread has nothing to do with Henne. How come any time I point out something about Moore (supported by fact) you have to bring up Henne? It is a boring broken record that has the same feel of a 3rd grade "I know you are but what am I" response. Losing respect bro!

 

[insomnia411]

Henne's apologists cannot seem to let it go.... Get over it.

Henne was an albatross that cannot be measured in merely stats; his departure raised the entire confidence level of the team.

I'm not a Henne apologist and I didn't even bring up any stats. I'm talking facts here. The entire team (particularly the pass defense and Brandon Marshall in big spots) was ****ing awful for the first 7 weeks. To put all of that on Henne is laughable. And dude, the entire team had it's confidence increased by Henne going down??? Did it really look that way when Moore came in against San Diego, played a ****ty game against the Jets, or choked against the Broncos and Giants? How about just anytime we played a good team? You do realize Moore didn't beat a single decent team right?
The guy sucks. Bring me Peyton Manning, RG3 or another good rookie like Weeden, I'm so sick of these jerkoff QBs.

 

[Vaark]

I'm not a Henne apologist and I didn't even bring up any stats. I'm talking facts here. The entire team (particularly the pass defense and Brandon Marshall in big spots) was ****ing awful for the first 7 weeks. To put all of that on Henne is laughable. And dude, the entire team had it's confidence increased by Henne going down??? Did it really look that way when Moore came in against San Diego, played a ****ty game against the Jets, or choked against the Broncos and Giants? How about just anytime we played a good team? You do realize Moore didn't beat a single decent team right?
The guy sucks. Bring me Peyton Manning, RG3 or another good rookie like Weeden, I'm so sick of these jerkoff QBs.

you do realize don't you that in his last 9 games, the only decent/winning team Matt Ryan beat in going the same 6-3 was Tennessee, and that's only because of that flukey Houston TN season ender. As a matter of fact during that stretch Atlanta beat teams with a combined 54-90 record. Matter of fact, Matt Stafford, everyone's flavor of the month did not beat a single winning team all season and in the last 9 games went 5-4 losing to all 3 teams with winning Percentages that he faced.

Stats, gotta love 'em!

 

[67Stang]

I'm not a Henne apologist and I didn't even bring up any stats. I'm talking facts here. The entire team (particularly the pass defense and Brandon Marshall in big spots) was ****ing awful for the first 7 weeks. To put all of that on Henne is laughable. And dude, the entire team had it's confidence increased by Henne going down??? Did it really look that way when Moore came in against San Diego, played a ****ty game against the Jets, or choked against the Broncos and Giants? How about just anytime we played a good team? You do realize Moore didn't beat a single decent team right?
The guy sucks. Bring me Peyton Manning, RG3 or another good rookie like Weeden, I'm so sick of these jerkoff QBs.

Funny how these guys bring up Henne apologist and any time someone points out why they don't want Moore as a starter; all they can do is bring up Henne. I think it is pretty comical at how they will call people apologist and then do this crap.