Why Our Receivers Aren't Open

[Frank B]

I've been thinking about this question for days. We all watch highlights of the other games, and we see #1 receivers on other teams making big catches in open space and against single coverage. Why does this not happen with Chris Chambers? We also see tight ends from other teams get wide open down the seam. Why do we not see this with McMichael?

I've noticed that we have some recievers...namely Welker and Booker, who are adept at finding holes in the secondary, whether it be zone or man coverage. McMichael and Chambers on the other hand seem to run themselves into the teeth of the defense. I understand that sometimes if they don't run their routes properly, the defense can more easily shut down the other receivers, but when the original play breaks down, Chambers and McMichael don't seem to make the reads and quick adjustments necessary to uncover themselves for the quarterback.

Perfect example, the interception Harrington threw toward McMichael in the first half. I'm not saying that the interception was McMichael's fault, or that Joey didn't do a poor job of reading the coverage. I am saying that there was a whole in the middle of the field that McMichael failed to exploit. When the linebacker dropped into the zone where McMichael was to finish his route, he could have easily cut his route short, and turned up field down the seam. When you look at the replays, he would have been wide open for about a 20+ yard gain.

To be clear, these adjustments aren't possible unless both the quarterback and the receivers recognize the coverages and make the correct adjustments. It may take Joey and the receivers time to get on the same page, but it is possible. Everyone knows that Chambers and McMichael need constant work on the consistency of their hands, but I think they need just as much work in reading coverages and making adjustments.

 

[Phantom]

Get your Chris Chambers bobble head doll, comes with the defensive back of your choice, attached at the hip..........

 

[TakeIt2DaHouse]

i know cause they arent that good thats why our wr's are the only ones to be blanketed

 

[ckparrothead]

Chambers is a victim of Mike Mularkey at the moment. That whole focus on "quick passing"? That takes Chambers right out of the game, because most of his routes are not quick routes (slants, hitches, outs, crosses). Chambers' position calls for him to run double-moves and curls, posts, verticals, etc.

If you throw the ball too early on those routes, he doesn't even have a chance to get open before the ball is in the air and the DB begins closing in.

Nearly 80% of Joey Harrington's pass attempts have traveled less than 10 yards through the air. You tell me if that is Chris Chambers' style. I nearly fainted when we threw a fade to Chambers in the end zone.

 

[finfan54]

Chambers is a victim of Mike Mularkey at the moment. That whole focus on "quick passing"? That takes Chambers right out of the game, because most of his routes are not quick routes (slants, hitches, outs, crosses). Chambers' position calls for him to run double-moves and curls, posts, verticals, etc.

If you throw the ball too early on those routes, he doesn't even have a chance to get open before the ball is in the air and the DB begins closing in.

Nearly 80% of Joey Harrington's pass attempts have traveled less than 10 yards through the air. You tell me if that is Chris Chambers' style. I nearly fainted when we threw a fade to Chambers in the end zone.

I tend to agree with this. This is also why the OL had a really slow start. They are learning how to block air becuase the ball is already going sideways within a split second. End arounds teaching something other than straight ahead kickin the crap out of the guy in front of you kind of learning.

 

[ckparrothead]

I tend to agree with this. This is also why the OL had a really slow start. They are learning how to block air becuase the ball is already going sideways within a split second. End arounds teaching something other than straight ahead kickin the crap out of the guy in front of you kind of learning.

Well, I don't tend to agree with all that.

 

[volk]

Chambers is a victim of Mike Mularkey at the moment. That whole focus on "quick passing"? That takes Chambers right out of the game, because most of his routes are not quick routes (slants, hitches, outs, crosses). Chambers' position calls for him to run double-moves and curls, posts, verticals, etc.

If you throw the ball too early on those routes, he doesn't even have a chance to get open before the ball is in the air and the DB begins closing in.

Nearly 80% of Joey Harrington's pass attempts have traveled less than 10 yards through the air. You tell me if that is Chris Chambers' style. I nearly fainted when we threw a fade to Chambers in the end zone.

True enough. Still though, it can't be denied that Chambers has struggled getting open over his career. Don't get me wrong, he is a good receiver, but sometimes I think he should take the number 2 position with a different guy in the #1 slot.

 

[tyson22]

Chambers is a victim of Mike Mularkey at the moment. That whole focus on "quick passing"? That takes Chambers right out of the game, because most of his routes are not quick routes (slants, hitches, outs, crosses). Chambers' position calls for him to run double-moves and curls, posts, verticals, etc.

If you throw the ball too early on those routes, he doesn't even have a chance to get open before the ball is in the air and the DB begins closing in.

Nearly 80% of Joey Harrington's pass attempts have traveled less than 10 yards through the air. You tell me if that is Chris Chambers' style. I nearly fainted when we threw a fade to Chambers in the end zone

:clap: thank you for being the voice of logic, im tired of these "chambers isnt a #1 WR" threads. i will also add that chambers is the type of reciever who can make a catch when he isnt "open", and that requires the qb to trust that chambers can do that. i think that frerotte did just that and thats why chambers made the pro bowl.

 

[DolfinDave]

I agree that they need work running their routes and finding ways to get open. Like you said, I watch games of pretty much every other team, and I see receivers getting a lot more open than ours do. Chambers can make great catches on balls 3 feet over his head and 3 feet out of bounds. But he has trouble with balls right at him in his numbers. He is very good after the catch and in open field, but he has to catch the ball first and on a more consistent basis. McMichael needs to sure up his catching also.

I don't know if it is the offensive system that doesn't design the right routes or if it is our receivers not running them properly. It could also be the defense sitting on routes becaue they know we have to throw it quickly. But they need to start getting open and catching the ball more often.

 

[tyson22]

True enough. Still though, it can't be denied that Chambers has struggled getting open over his career. Don't get me wrong, he is a good receiver, but sometimes I think he should take the number 2 position with a different guy in the #1 slot.

i think i was typing my response to this before it was even posted!(see post #8)

 

[ckparrothead]

It's not route design, IMO...nor is it the receivers running them. Sometimes it is the receivers running them.

Mostly, IMO, it is timing. We were blitzed heavily by every team right up until New England stopped blitzing us. The Jets didn't blitz much either. Blitzing takes a lot of Chambers' routes out of the game because it makes you go hot...and hot is usually to the slot (hence all the action Welker has gotten).

But the majority of the routes for Chambers' flanker position require depth and therefore time to get open. With Culpepper, he was willing to wait for the routes to come open but the OL didn't seem willing to block long enough for that to happen. With Harrington, the OL seems able to block long enough but Joey seems unwilling to wait for the route to open.

 

[Captain Lou]

I've been thinking about this question for days. We all watch highlights of the other games, and we see #1 receivers on other teams making big catches in open space and against single coverage. Why does this not happen with Chris Chambers? We also see tight ends from other teams get wide open down the seam. Why do we not see this with McMichael?

I've noticed that we have some recievers...namely Welker and Booker, who are adept at finding holes in the secondary, whether it be zone or man coverage. McMichael and Chambers on the other hand seem to run themselves into the teeth of the defense. I understand that sometimes if they don't run their routes properly, the defense can more easily shut down the other receivers, but when the original play breaks down, Chambers and McMichael don't seem to make the reads and quick adjustments necessary to uncover themselves for the quarterback.

Perfect example, the interception Harrington threw toward McMichael in the first half. I'm not saying that the interception was McMichael's fault, or that Joey didn't do a poor job of reading the coverage. I am saying that there was a whole in the middle of the field that McMichael failed to exploit. When the linebacker dropped into the zone where McMichael was to finish his route, he could have easily cut his route short, and turned up field down the seam. When you look at the replays, he would have been wide open for about a 20+ yard gain.

To be clear, these adjustments aren't possible unless both the quarterback and the receivers recognize the coverages and make the correct adjustments. It may take Joey and the receivers time to get on the same page, but it is possible. Everyone knows that Chambers and McMichael need constant work on the consistency of their hands, but I think they need just as much work in reading coverages and making adjustments.

Or maybe Chambers is getting double teamed, and our offense is so anemic that the defenses never get put into to a position to bite. Our offensive strategy rivals those of Pop Warner.

 

[BSQX4]

CK, why does it have to be one or the other in the passing game. It seems like with Joey the ball goes right out therefore negating CCs best routes. With Daunte he stood in the pocket too long waiting for routes to open up and ended up getting sacked or hammered after the ball got out. Can we not at this stage, mix it up and do some of each? Some shots down the field early in the game would be good to see. Maybe we'd connect or draw a flag or at the very least loosen the D and give them something to think about. Hey, maybe we'd score more points! Someone should tell Mularkey that scoring points is the ultimate goal of the offense.

 

[bluehaze]

It's Malarkeys dink or dunk passing system, Chambers only gets a chance at the deep ball a couple times a game with the current playcalling. When we go to no huddle in the 4th the recievers have no problems getting open they just arent restricted to that damn dink dunk BS that Malarkey forces on them.

 

[ckparrothead]

CK, why does it have to be one or the other in the passing game. It seems like with Joey the ball goes right out therefore negating CCs best routes. With Daunte he stood in the pocket too long waiting for routes to open up and ended up getting sacked or hammered after the ball got out. Can we not at this stage, mix it up and do some of each? Some shots down the field early in the game would be good to see. Maybe we'd connect or draw a flag or at the very least loosen the D and give them something to think about. Hey, maybe we'd score more points! Someone should tell Mularkey that scoring points is the ultimate goal of the offense.

Well, nobody asked it to be this way. It just has been this way. Joey came in for Daunte with the aim of getting rid of the ball quicker and that just naturally means Chambers is taken out of the offense to a signficant extent.

I'm sure nobody expected the OL to make a complete turnaround to where they were pass protecting long enough that we are not forced to get rid of the ball so quickly.

The real urban myth is that Daunte was holding the ball too long. He wasn't...or at least, his normal quarterback timing or internal clock was not off. As a quarterback you get a feel for how much time it takes for certain routes to develop to their most advantageous point. Being in sync with that timing has helped him make him the QB that he is. He was trying to hold it long enough to let the routes develop. I think he kind of just expected the OL to be able to block like a normal OL and give him at least 2.8 seconds to make his decision. They didn't.

There's two aspects of a QB's pocket presence. There's the QB's internal clock, and there is his ability to sense the rush before it is too late. I can tell you from assiduous film viewing that his internal clock was not off. However, his sense for the pocket collapsing was either off sometimes, or non-existent some other times. As a QB he's never needed to develop that particular part of his game because of his natural abilities. And, I'm not just talking about his feet or quickness. I'm talking about his defensive end size. He's 6'4" and normally weighs like 270. He's use to standing tall in the pocket and even when pressured, he could have a lineman draped around his waist and still get the ball off. Someone posted a quote from Daunte during training camp that I found very telling. They had a guest ref in camp and when Daunte was tapped by a linebacker the ref called sack. Daunte complained...he was like, there's no way I'd be down with just that. This is how he is use to playing, and the knee all the sudden changed that equation a little bit...made it a little more challenging.

There were two aspects of what was going on with Daunte that sent him back to rehab. One I really think was the fact that he was not fully cooperating with what the coaching staff was telling him. I think they were telling him to get the ball out quicker, even if it meant not letting routes develop, and I don't know if he was able to relally reconcile himself to that (hard to teach an old dog new tricks). But, the one aspect that really did him in was his inability to move out of the way on the blitz. Defenses smelled blood in the water in terms of his mobility and blitzed non-stop against us...and without the ability to protect himself from those blitzes he was getting hammered. And, I'm not just talking about sacks here. They showed a stat in the Houston game I remember where he had been knocked down and/or pressured triple the number of times he had been sacked. So, even when he was getting the ball out and completing passes, he was trying to let the routes develop to their most advantageous point, stand tall in the pocket and get it out in the face of pressure. Without his ability to move around, that means he was just getting pummeled instead of being able to move out of the way...even if he got rid of the ball. Sports illustrated tracked 31 pass attempts that Daunte had while "under pressure". He got knocked down or hit by defenders on 18 pass attempts. This, in addition to his 21 sacks, was adding up to an unacceptable level of knock-downs relative to his long term health (39 knockdowns in 4 games, not to mention other times when the pressure causes him to fall that isn't recorded as a knockdown).

So out goes Culpepper...out goes his timing. In comes Harrington with a quicker clock. The unfortunate and ironic part is that just when Harrington comes in with a quicker clock, the OL starts protecting dramatically better...to where we go from 21 sacks in 4 games to 1 sack in 2 games. It takes MULTIPLE factors to make that kind of turnaround. Folks who are attributing it 100% to Harrington are just misguided. He's been pressured 13 times in 85 drops. That's less than half the pressure rate Daunte had while in the game.

So the irony is that had Culpepper been in during these games with his timing and accuracy, we might have enjoyed more offensive success with the way the OL was protecting. We still would have taken sacks, I'm gonna guestimate we'd have taken 5 more in the two games, but I don't know that they would have outweighed the boost to downfield efficiency.

While Harrington is in, however, I'm not sure I see us achieving any kind of happy medium because as someone pointed out, Joey is at his best when he is making the correct pre-snap read and getting rid of the ball quickly. He's a little more lost when given time to try and scan the field and figure out where to go....by his own admission. So generally, if he takes more time to throw it, the outcome isn't generally as good as with Daunte. Daunte had 65% accuracy on passes that traveled between 11 and 20 yards. Joey has 33% accuracy in that area.