Why Philbin should be fired, and Why he won't be | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why Philbin should be fired, and Why he won't be

HoneyB

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This is just my opinion.

First of all why he won't be fired:

1. The Dolphins had a Cam Cameron type collapse the last 2 games, but in favor of Philbin is the fact that it's only the ending, not the entire season. We're 8-8, which technically is average. We were in a position to make the playoffs, which means Ross can project we'll be in at least that position next year, and with some minor changes, can make a strong run.

2. Ross likes Philbin a lot, and seemed to have faith in him right before these last 2 games. Philbin's only had 2 years, and it's likely Ross thinks he deserves at least another year.

3. There doesn't seem to be any locker room revolt. Yes, the team laid down for the Jets game and sent a message to the coaching staff. But given the fact that Ryan Tannehill has let it be known he's lost faith in Mike Sherman, and Mike Wallace seems fairly upbeat in terms of wanting to continue to work with Tannehill,...things seem to be set up for Sherman and other coaches to be fired, not Philbin. All of the older veterans, keep in mind, are gone. Right now they would be the most vocal and cause the most trouble, but they're missing.

4. Good is the enemy of Great. While it's clear there's not much progress in year two, Philbin could argue this is expected, as a natural side effect of huge roster changes, a lot of youth, and insufficient time to fully implement his version of the WCO. He'll get out that big Mead spiral folder and show Ross how far along the path he's gone, and that we're on schedule. Then he'll get a sad face and lament that it would have been so much easier if Ireland didn't screw up the draft.

Why I no longer like Philbin and think he should be fired:

1. Personality-wise, he's not an alpha male. He's not a leader of men.

2. Talent-wise, he was not the "young Don Shula" we were looking for, when we hired him. Despite a lot of tenure in Green Bay, was not allowed to call his own plays. He's not a mastermind. What he did was bring knowledge of a winning organization to Miami, and was smart and could lay out a vision and a method to get to the Superbowl. He interviewed well. He had a big notebook. He had a plan. Unfortunately, I think we were sold a bill of goods.

3. Incognito/Martin: This was something you'd expect the control freak and planner from Green Bay to be good at, which is keeping high character guys in the locker room and being hands-on to make sure everything's working and going smoothly. But instead, we learned he covered up a previous instance, and doesn't take responsibility for any of the debacle, because he claimed he didn't know. I have to admit, that as much as we hated Parcells/Sparano, this wouldn't have happened under their watch. It would have gotten fixed, or someone would have left the club.

4. He promised an explosive, WCO, and it didn't materialize.

5. He hired Sherman, and the O line coach, and the QB coach, all who deserve to be fired. (Sherman has claimed that he prefers a balanced run/pass offense, and that it was actually Philbin who kept pushing for more passing during the season.)

6. He failed to develop Ryan Tannehill as much as he and Sherman claimed they would, or utilize his strengths.

7. He is in year two, which was plenty of time to assess the O line and RB's, which we were all concerned with, and did nothing to improve either. The running game has gotten worse, not better. He Chose Miller over Reggie Bush, eliminated the Fullbacks, and Fasano is gone. All of this was by design because finesse is Philbin's plan, not Sherman's, not Ireland's, it's squarely on his shoulder.

8. Philbin bragged at the beginning of the season how much in synch he was with Ireland, and how easy it was to work with him, so I don't buy for a minute that he had no influence on Ireland. Ireland picked up some nice FA's for Philbin for his finesse offense, and if Philbin needed some additions from the draft, like a top lineman, or a RB, or a blocking TE, then he should have demanded it. I believe Ireland felt comfortable going defense early in the draft because the feedback he received from Philbin was that he was satisfied.

9. Firing all the veterans so that you can have control, is a crappy reason to fire people. But that's what he did, he wanted the leadership council out of the locker room. And yet, he didn't fill the void.

10. Last but not least, losing the last two games of the season, to the Bills and Jets, and scoring 7 points in 8 quarters, and blowing a playoff chance, and embarrassing us nationally.
 
Ryan Tannehill played terrible the last 2 weeks, in fact the only time he played worse than the Jets game was his first game as a pro. His average passer rating was 43 over the last 2 games. And if we have a QB that needs to be "coached up" for important games then we don't have a QB.

And people seem determined to blame Philbin for the state of the o-line so I guess I'm just going to have to repeat this over and over:

We tried to sign Long and failed. We tried to trade for Albert and failed. We signed what, 3 free agent guards? All bad. We drafted o-line in the third round--bust. We signed Clabo--terrible. And finally we traded for Mckinnie mid-season. All before the tackle we drafted in the second round the year before took out 2 of our starters.

Uhh, if Philbin didn't "demand" improvements on the line who orchestrated all of the above moves? That looks to me like we tried to make improvements at every position on the line except center, notice the key word tried.
 
While I don't agree with your post......I do understand how and why you feel the way you do. A couple of things to consider.....

On the O-line, while we certainly took some risk on Martin being in the left tackle spot this year, we had Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry and Clabo in the other spots. I actually thought that wasn't a bad lineup, with Martin and Jerry being the weak links. Well, Clabo was awful the first part of the year, Incognito and Martin are both gone and Pouncey missed two games due to illness. Was it predictable.....maybe........but I don't think anyone could predict that we would have this much upheaval in that group.

I have to admit, I'm in the dark on the play calling in Green Bay. I understood that Philbin was the arcitecht of the offense and McCarthy called the plays. That isn't that unusual as a number of HC's throughout the league call plays even though they have an OC on the staff. Why do we always point to that as an issue.

Fasano was replaced by Keller, who was much more of an offensive threat than Fasano. No way to predict he would blow out his knee.

I would have liked to see Bush back...no question. I don't know if this is Philbin or Ireland, but I think it was a mistake. I will say, I don't know if you can compare the running game fairly with the issues we had on the O-line. Better blocking equals better running.......

I saw improvement in RT this year. Not sure what your expectation was, but I think he has improved.

Everyone has their own style.....so I'm not sure why the Alpha Male issue is so important. I don't see Belichek or Rivera having a hissy fit on the sidelines, Tom Landry used to sit there with the arms folded......yet had lots of success. Pete Carroll and Jim Harbough are animated on the sidelines, but Sean Peyton isn't........I don't think that is any indication of leadership or the ability to lead.

The whole leadership council thing is confusing to me. You think Philbin wanted them all gone? We tried to resign Long, but couldn't......and we got younger and faster at the LB position (although, not better) and less expensive. Most of us thought that was a good, long term move when it occurred. I didn't have any sense that it was because Dansby was part of a leadership council.

In my mind, we need to keep Philbin at least one more year to let his system mature. I would definitely make a change at OC and QB Coach to give Tannehill some different perspective, but keep Philbin in place.
 
Uhh, if Philbin didn't "demand" improvements on the line who orchestrated all of the above moves? That looks to me like we tried to make improvements at every position on the line except center, notice the key word tried.

Some people try and some people get the job done. I'll take the guy who gets the job done.
 
Bush is injury prone and although good cant finish a season. Detroit did not make playoffs either.

The OL is responsibility of Ireland to get the players and all were bad except Pouncey. that is not on Philbin. The Martin fiasco is a lack of character (quiter and soft player) and also a lack of Ireland to judge players with good character. Incoginito is also bad character. Not Philbin type of players.

I can go on and on. Need to hire an Offensive staff with a good NFL Green Bay type playbook. Not a Texas A and M playbook.
 
The problems with this team, and the reason we didn't make the playoffs, all point to player personnel to me. For some stupid reason we went into the season with $22 million in cap space, thats like shorting ourselves at least one good player. Vontea Davis trade was dumb. O-line was a disaster. Not bringing back Bush was dumb. We're not building around our young QB quickly enough, he should have had the receiving weapons he has now last year. We should have made sure he was well protected this year, not next year.

Only Ross knows for sure how involved Philbin is with player personnel and if he was heavily involved in any of the above moves then he should be canned along with Ireland.
 
Ryan Tannehill played terrible the last 2 weeks, in fact the only time he played worse than the Jets game was his first game as a pro. His average passer rating was 43 over the last 2 games. And if we have a QB that needs to be "coached up" for important games then we don't have a QB.

And people seem determined to blame Philbin for the state of the o-line so I guess I'm just going to have to repeat this over and over:

We tried to sign Long and failed. We tried to trade for Albert and failed. We signed what, 3 free agent guards? All bad. We drafted o-line in the third round--bust. We signed Clabo--terrible. And finally we traded for Mckinnie mid-season. All before the tackle we drafted in the second round the year before took out 2 of our starters.

Uhh, if Philbin didn't "demand" improvements on the line who orchestrated all of the above moves? That looks to me like we tried to make improvements at every position on the line except center, notice the key word tried.

So are you saying the QB wasn't approved by Joe Philbin and he bears no responsibility?

As far as the O line, shopping is not the same as signing. You can say that about every position, why don't you say that Philbin wanted Matt Flynn, too, when he went quarterback shopping? We didn't prefer Flynn so we don't have Flynn. He made decisions. As far as Long, I don't know how much the Dolphins valued him. They seemed content to let him go and move Martin back to the left side. They miscalculated. I can't believe you are saying with a straight face that we traded for McKinnie mid-season all on our own. They were forced into it, because the Incognito/Martin situation blew up in their face. So if you're asking, who bailed them out and brought in McKinnie, I would say that was obviously Ireland, not Philbin.
 
As far as the O line, shopping is not the same as signing. You can say that about every position, why don't you say that Philbin wanted Matt Flynn, too, when he went quarterback shopping? .

That's exactly what I'm saying, Philbin wanted an upgrade at QB and we got one. Philbin wanted an upgrade at o-line and we didn't get one. Philbin wanted an upgrade at linebacker too. And cornerback. And Reciever. And TE.
 
Joe was terrible in getting his team ready to go the last two games of the year.
 
The whole leadership council thing is confusing to me. You think Philbin wanted them all gone?

It's a given he wanted them gone, because they ARE all gone.

The coaches you mentioned...Belichick and Sean Payton, regarding that I think you misunderstand what I mean. Those are leaders, those are alpha males. You don't necessarily have to be a screamer to be a leader. Belichick is heavily involved with the game, and will grab players or kneel right down in front of them and shown them on a clipboard what they're doing wrong. He'll yell or not yell, it doesn't matter. He's a force, and he's brilliant. Sean Payton is also an alpha, commands a lot of respect and is literally joined at the hip with his QB. They are a team. They strategize together, make adjustments together, and he is passionate. They are both leaders.
 
That's exactly what I'm saying, Philbin wanted an upgrade at QB and we got one. Philbin wanted an upgrade at o-line and we didn't get one. Philbin wanted an upgrade at linebacker too. And cornerback. And Reciever. And TE.

lol....how are you in his mind about what he wanted on the O line? Did he call you up and tell you he asked Jeff to draft an O lineman in the first round and he refused to? Did he tell you that he wanted Martin replaced but Jeff didn't get around to go shopping yet, until Martin quit? How are you making these assumptions?
 
lol....how are you in his mind about what he wanted on the O line? Did he call you up and tell you he asked Jeff to draft an O lineman in the first round and he refused to? Did he tell you that he wanted Martin replaced but Jeff didn't get around to go shopping yet, until Martin quit? How are you making these assumptions?

How are you concluding that he didn't ask for upgrades? You're the one that brought it up:
and if Philbin needed some additions from the draft, like a top lineman, or a RB, or a blocking TE, then he should have demanded it.

We offered Long a contract, that alone is evidence that somebody in the organization understood our o-line situation wasn't the best. Not only that but we did draft a lineman high...
 
2. Talent-wise, he was not the "young Don Shula" we were looking for, when we hired him. Despite a lot of tenure in Green Bay, was not allowed to call his own plays. He's not a mastermind. What he did was bring knowledge of a winning organization to Miami, and was smart and could lay out a vision and a method to get to the Superbowl. He interviewed well. He had a big notebook. He had a plan. Unfortunately, I think we were sold a bill of goods.

Honey bee - I think that you make too much of the not calling the plays in Green Bay. Sean Payton calls the plays in New Orleans. Mike McCarthy calls the plays in Green Bay because that's the way these guys prefer to coach. And they happened to win Super Bowls along the way with that approach. It doesn't mean that Joe wasn't any good, it's just the way they prefer to coach. However, Joe is recognized for his planning and organization and player development. They are his strengths and that is what he should continue to work on. Sherman had some decent play calling in some games but far too many were too predictable and a few were flat out atrocious. We need to have a more creative play caller and Sherman might need to be replaced. When Hartline got injured in the Jets game, the air went out of our Offense like a pricked balloon.
We were a highly competitive team in practically every game until the last two. We all had bigger expectations, but that doesn't mean that Joe needs to be canned.
 
Its funny that when Sparano was here I don't recall a single post blaming Sparano for any personnel decisions, it was always either Ireland or Parcells. Now that the Ireland apologists can't blame Parcells anymore all of a sudden the head coach is the one with final say on personnel decisions? I mean, what the ****?

I shouldn't have to defend Philbin on o-line personnel because THAT IS NOT HIS JOB!! Yet I can go above and beyond and clearly show somebody in the organization knew the o-line department needed some serious upgrades.

The problem is when you try to embellish the terrible job Philbin has done, you either make yourself look uninformed (to put it as politely as possible) or you open yourself up to pointless debates. Philbin does not have good results--that is all you needed to say.
 
How are you concluding that he didn't ask for upgrades? You're the one that brought it up. We offered Long a contract, that alone is evidence that somebody in the organization understood our o-line situation wasn't the best. Not only that but we did draft a lineman high...

What I brought up is what was done, what as accomplished, what direction they went in, who they fired and hired. I didn't try to read his mind. He should be held accountable for the team, period. If people around the league questioned whether Martin would pan out at LT, and whether Miller could handle primary back duties, then why didn't Philbin question it? The answer is, because you don't question yourself. He made decisions based on what he thought would work. He got rid of the fullbacks because he didn't feel he needed fullbacks, for example. He didn't need Reggie Bush. It's fine to make decisions...every coach has to. You're molding your team. But if it doesn't work, then yes, we have a right to question why.

And so will Ross.
 
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